If you want the game to revolve around spice, make spice tiles non-renewable

[Ando]

1. Make the spice run out after being refined for a long period of time. that way there'd be a limited # of spice tiles and you have to contest for new ones throughout the game, after your current ones expire. need ability to remove crews from harvesters . or you can have instead of completely expired, their output trickle to be less effective

2. Ornis are useless after awhile, they just idle after everything is searched. New spice tiles should populate throughout the game, and these orni's should be able to discover new ones on the map

Extras:

3. AI shouldn't just attack for pillage or conquest. they should target stores, like attack the harvesters or spice building specifically. I am sure that is how multiplayer will be as well because if you're equal strength, you wont have enough time to pillage/conquest their city before their army arrives, but you have enough time to destroy a building and retreat

4. agent missions to attack each other's spice hoards. environmental events (massive sand storm) can destroy part of spice hoards. buildings like the silo can help lessen amount taken (a la Northgard)

5. there should be extra spice sinks, like bene gesserits and mentats, or spice win (get 10k spice and its the cost of some research)

[lecoqaveugle]

that way there'd be a limited # of spice tiles and you have to contest for new ones throughout the game

Set the game settings to:

• Map size = small;
  
• AI difficulty = high or insane;
  
• (optional) Sandstorm and worm activity = high;

This should fix your problem since the spice fields are really limited now forcing you to fight for them and the AI in this game is really good giving you (the player) and other AI's a hard time.

It fights for those spice fields, it ignores bad zones(villages) and tries to go for the juicy ones.

[Mansen]

Re 1: That's just not how Dune works. You have the entire northern hemisphere. The spice should never run out, only re-appear on other region tiles (which COULD work but would require a bit of a rework in terms of having harvesters be deployed from farway regions instead of locally)

Re 2: They are never useless. Once you're done exploring the map, you can either assign them to harvesters for a boost to spice output (increase with a green tech tree tech) or use them to spy and scout out enemy territory before attacking.

Re 4: Spice is too precious to merely burn. You'd want to steal it - and then frame someone else for it to avoid diplomatic consequences from the landsraad.

Re 5: Spice? Mentats? Mentats don't consume spice, they consume Sapho juice - different thing entirely.

[Boiledteabag]

You clearly didn't play dune2000 did you OP? if you attack the harvesters without vehicles the harvester automatically steers to run your ground troops over.

What you are asking for is instant death for your units, since if the harvesters get focused then they need a way of defending themselves.

[RasaNova]

Postat inițial de HammyBread:

You clearly didn't play dune2000 did you OP? if you attack the harvesters without vehicles the harvester automatically steers to run your ground troops over.

What you are asking for is instant death for your units, since if the harvesters get focused then they need a way of defending themselves.

How does dune2k have anything to do with this topic? I think it was a valid point, and very much in line with the book. In fact players are already targeting AI harvesters, but common concensus seems to say it's better to just attack the village.

[Shadowmarth]

I don't mind the way it works now, but I think there's something to that, and ripping off the Dune board game mechanic of spice blows would probably work pretty well. Especially when they've made their map look and function quite a bit like the board game. Which is to say:
Spice blows show up semi-randomly in desert areas, wiping out anything already existing there but leaving large (but finite) spice deposits.
Players scramble to claim the deposits, frequently fighting over the territory.
Areas where there has been a spice blow are more likely to be attacked by worms, further increasing the risk.

In this model I imagine you'd be building your spice depots in a distributed fashion to deploy harvesters, somewhat like airfields. It could be really damned cool. Might be too much micromanagement for their vision of this game though.

[insta†.Nefer]

would love to see this
and once the spice runs dry sardaukar rush on the planet to attempt anihilation on everyone except the biggest spice harvester
so all remainiingg fractions ally up for one big brawl against the empire

[VonFIDDE]

I find the game is hard enough on insane even with unlimited spice :O Either way it feels pointless to change. Btw the only way to beat the game on insane is to use the cease fire + poison-combo right?

[Jeffer'son Airship]

Spice running out that quick doesn't really fit the lore given how prevalent it's supposed to be on Arrakis. At the same time it would definitely be an interesting game option. Especially to have shorter mp games.

[Tenshin51]

Spice management is fine already. The game definitely force you to expand just to pay imperial tax. Which is interesting mechanic.

You can ignore it early game and use spice as main source income but in the late game it can make spice a limited resources especially on a stalemate.

There is also variable spice harvesting will stop except for Fremen but Fremen units are expensive.

Also Ai cannot just bypass other region due to supply mechanic. Airfield doesn't work that well unless they are near your spice region. I could see Fremen do this using their Thumper so far I never seen AI Fremen use it thumper to full potential.

Regarding scout I do agree, point of interest should randomly spawn. Instead of making this unit idle on late game.

[Sam]

I don't like the idea of exhausting spices.
Not such an idea.

[SMJSMOK]

1. not necessary. The spice tax always being higher and higher forces you to keep capturing new spice fields because those you start with next to your base won't be enough after some time.

What I'd like to see though is the spice being used in some interesting ways. Right now it's mostly used to pay the tax. That's fine both game and lore wise, but it's a bit boring on its own. What the spice does according to the lore is...well many things, but one them is prescience. So there could be for example ways to bribe the guild navigators with a little bit of spice to reveal movements of enemy units, extend the range of your ranged troops for some limited time etc.

[Angry Obnoxious Goose]

Postat inițial de Mansen:

Re 1: That's just not how Dune works. You have the entire northern hemisphere. The spice should never run out, only re-appear on other region tiles (which COULD work but would require a bit of a rework in terms of having harvesters be deployed from farway regions instead of locally)

Re 2: They are never useless. Once you're done exploring the map, you can either assign them to harvesters for a boost to spice output (increase with a green tech tree tech) or use them to spy and scout out enemy territory before attacking.

Re 4: Spice is too precious to merely burn. You'd want to steal it - and then frame someone else for it to avoid diplomatic consequences from the landsraad.

Re 5: Spice? Mentats? Mentats don't consume spice, they consume Sapho juice - different thing entirely.

The Juice of Sapho, made from a highly addictive plant from the homeworld of House Ezcaz iirc.

[Angry Obnoxious Goose]

Postat inițial de HenloPeeps:

If it were up to me there would only be two harvestable resources on Arrakis itself- Spice and Water.

Everything else you'd need to import from the space guild or from your off world house assets or by trading with others.

Solari is the universes currency but it is not the reason why people are doing business on Arrakis.

Manpower itself just needs to be nuked out of the game.
You are not training men up on Arrakis, you are going to drop them in from off world, so it should just be a pop cap that is being raised.

Water is the means by which you'd trade with others such as the fremen, but this game doesn't go far enough with either water or spice.

It should be a primary effort to secure these resources, defend these resources, and utilise them for additional growth, trade, research, political aid.


I wouldn't keep upping the tax unless you grow in accordance with that. Otherwise it will force the player forwards and give them a timer to complete the objective by (before they can no longer afford it).
Would I reduce it if they lost territory? Not sure, probably not. The emps got this amount from you last time, he doesn't care about the conflict and will expect the same or more next time. Lest you lose favour.

As for prescience that will probably kick off if they gave the space guild or the bene gesserit a more active role in the game.

There is water harvestable in the game.... it's called Windtraps for the near-0% atmospheric moisture that exists on Arrakis, and the Water Extractor for the Center Northpole spot.
Arrakis got no natural water reserves anywhere like on earth.... the Arrakis Sandworms have seen to that.

[RasaNova]

Postat inițial de HenloPeeps:

If it were up to me there would only be two harvestable resources on Arrakis itself- Spice and Water.

Everything else you'd need to import from the space guild or from your off world house assets or by trading with others.

Solari is the universes currency but it is not the reason why people are doing business on Arrakis.

Manpower itself just needs to be nuked out of the game.
You are not training men up on Arrakis, you are going to drop them in from off world, so it should just be a pop cap that is being raised.

Water is the means by which you'd trade with others such as the fremen, but this game doesn't go far enough with either water or spice.

It should be a primary effort to secure these resources, defend these resources, and utilise them for additional growth, trade, research, political aid.


I wouldn't keep upping the tax unless you grow in accordance with that. Otherwise it will force the player forwards and give them a timer to complete the objective by (before they can no longer afford it).
Would I reduce it if they lost territory? Not sure, probably not. The emps got this amount from you last time, he doesn't care about the conflict and will expect the same or more next time. Lest you lose favour.

As for prescience that will probably kick off if they gave the space guild or the bene gesserit a more active role in the game.

I mostly agree, gold and hous- er, I mean Solari and manpower are cliche RTS tropes that we could do without.

Spice should be the most important thing in the game, it should be the primary means and reason for anything else, and yes water is the primary resource that keeps life alive on Arrakis. Although I would also keep influence. Everything else in the game could be derived from those 3 in some way.