Competition for Eugen's Red Dragon? Feature comparison?

[Noblesse Oblige [KG] ⳩]

I wonder if it will hold up against other RTS games. Competition is good but Slitherine generally under perform in this market. Look at how starship troopers features zero multiplayer support. I know broken arrow has multiplayer but nothing is said of coop vs ai.
Battlestar done by black labs under slitherine and WEGO was great, but then they went backwards with 40k sector turn based stuff. Stargate will be confusing.... well fingers crossed and following this one for sure.

[Crafty]

Slitherine aren't developing it.

Also Slitherine doesn't "under perform" in this area. They back some of the most niche games of this style.

Like, Command: Modern Operations is one of the most realistic modern RTS game on the market. It's one of the only games on the market that does modern warfare on a 1:1 scale.

Also, 40K Gladius is a really solid game. 4X might not be your cup of tea but a lot of of people enjoyed it.

Again though, these games weren't developed by Slitherine.

[Noblesse Oblige [KG] ⳩]

I understand that. But slitherine tend to have very low budget indie studio games under their belt and probably fund the development in a lot of cases. I own command it is a very good exception. But most are matrix\slitherine niche games without the budget or team sizes to offer cutting edge stuff.
I do very much hope you are right. Because a lot of the stuff slitherine have published recently has not been great. I guess I was burned by Close Combat Bloody First. Something that certainly did not bring close combat up to Eugen's graphical standard. Close Combat was so immersive back in the 1990s because it looked amazing as well as playing amazing. Bloody First plays ok with a lot of problems as well as looking very dated. For instance not even the vehicle wheels move. It was a band aid. Starship Troopers looks to be single player only, almost unheard of in the RTS genre. You can see how a pattern might be forming in my mind.

But I really hope this game cuts the mustard as it will be on my watch list. I'd love to see it succeed. :)

[BobTank63]

Originally posted by Crafty:

Slitherine aren't developing it.

Also Slitherine doesn't "under perform" in this area. They back some of the most niche games of this style.

Like, Command: Modern Operations is one of the most realistic modern RTS game on the market. It's one of the only games on the market that does modern warfare on a 1:1 scale.

Also, 40K Gladius is a really solid game. 4X might not be your cup of tea but a lot of of people enjoyed it.

Again though, these games weren't developed by Slitherine.

Speaking of Slitherine RTS games, have you looked at Combat Mission Cold War? What CMO does for operational and strategic air and naval operations, CM does for tactical level combat. There is no game like it!

So in response to OP, I don't think that Slitherine is underperforming in RTS genre, at least when it comes to ones set in realistic settings.

[Noblesse Oblige [KG] ⳩]

Combat Mission is Battlefront not slitherine is it not?

[Muad'Dib]

I just hope it's more World in Conflict than Wargame. There's already like 3 Wargame clones being made right now.

[Noblesse Oblige [KG] ⳩]

I only know of that clone that disappeared off steam because of some controversey.

[BobTank63]

Originally posted by HMS Imperieuse ⳩:

Combat Mission is Battlefront not slitherine is it not?

Battlefront teamed up with Slitherine to release the series on Steam, and Cold War is getting the Slitherine PBEM+ system.

[Noblesse Oblige [KG] ⳩]

Oh I see. That's good news. But still I would not say that Battlefront's Combat Mission is in any way shape or form influenced by Slitherine the way a lot of it's other published games are. The cmx2 engine has been around for donkeys years and battlefront were very precious about keeping their stuff away from major publishers until this happened. I like that it is on steam though!! About time.

[Muad'Dib]

Originally posted by HMS Imperieuse ⳩:

I only know of that clone that disappeared off steam because of some controversey.

I assume you mean 'Cold Wargame', which is still up in the air. There's two more I know of, one made by a community member/youtuber named Firestarter, and another made by someone I can't currently remember the name of.

[Noblesse Oblige [KG] ⳩]

Oh nice. I see. I know of a single player game called regiments? Is that one?
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1109680/Regiments/

[Muad'Dib]

Originally posted by HMS Imperieuse ⳩:

Oh nice. I see. I know of a single player game called regiments? Is that one?
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1109680/Regiments/

Yup, I believe that's the one.

[Noblesse Oblige [KG] ⳩]

Yeah, single player makes that game a non event for me unfortunately and probably a lot of others. It's not a contender. Played the demo though and liked the squad based tank platoon play... that units came in groups. But infantry then seemed not to have the same numbers applied, their were not enough infantry.

[Muad'Dib]

Fair enough, but the Firestarter one( I believe it's name is 'Project Field Warning' and it's definitely going to be multiplayer centric, from what I've seen, as well as the person themselves being one of the higher end PvP players who regularly records matches for youtube.

I'm rather biased, tbh, I was never a huge fan of Wargame's gameplay and found it not very good for actual multiplayer. I love more realistic games for sure but never could jive with the zerging playstyle of wargame and it's wonky engagement mechanics(Like tanks being unable to see people sitting in the open of a tree line even though they all have thermals, or not being able to use smoke, forcing a very WW1 style way of fighting that feels kind of slow and not really matched up with the manuever warfare Cold War/Modern combat is supposed to represent.

Plus I'm just a World in Conflict nerd, so I have my fingers crossed on this one. Some of my best gaming memories were playing with ♥♥♥♥♥♥ laptops in my platoon while deployed in these big LAN matches while we got to nerd out with the frenetic and much more team-based gameplay of WiC. Wargame doesn't really leave much room for bold manuevers and risk taking and it makes the gameplay feel kind of slow and meta-rigid.

[Noblesse Oblige [KG] ⳩]

I am a massive fan of Steel Division 2 because it remained rigid and realistic. For instance no matter how many times paratrooper drops were requested they would not allow them. Even though historically combat drops happened in normandy in steel division 1's setting, they were not dropping into existing battles. However combat drops of a sort seem to be shown here in a modern setting? Insane. One thing wargame does overtly do incorrectly is not allow bridges to be destroyed, because that would turn any map with a bridge into a stagnant destroy the bridge map, because eugen also refused to introduce engineering units that could build pontoon bridges or rebuild standard bridges due to those operations being beyond the standard time for any match.

World in Conflict was fun but not as realistic as Eugen ww2 games at least. Eugen's modern games made more realism sacrifices, especially when they introduced ships.

I believe apart from their slow introduction of maps Eugen nailed ww2 combat in the context of huge meeting engagements. Combat Mission cannot do that. However I would like combat mission c2 order delays and such introduced. A bridge too far for many players to stand or understand, which is why it's kind abstracted in the radio and commander star mechanics. The combat in ww2 was not about power plays with super weapons. But I get where you are coming from if you mean that Eugens games with modern settings have too much micro to allow bold strategic moves.

P.S. I played armoured brigade as well and it was single players and had wierd LOS mechanics, the LOS is not shown well at all. Otherwise it would have been great.

I am basically after what Eugen does currently with more advanced gameplay. More combat mission cmx2 style TO&E and c2. More room for what you want as well in terms of allowing tactics beyond the rock paper scissors stuff.

Close Combat was good back in 1990s as well. But it has had it's day unfortunately. They stuffed that with bloody first by not investing enough in graphics and 3D object animation that cold compete with Eugen or even combat mission.

Field Warning looks like it is a long slow way off....
https://youtu.be/cP5YM7ZAluo

[Muad'Dib]

The devs mentioned in a video the other day they're going for more of a 'gameplay over strict realism' balance, and the trailer seems to suggest as much. I think with the deck system and a heavier focus on team work instead of 'lanes' you'll probably get something somewhere inbetween on WiC's arcadey gameplay and Wargame's more WW1 style slow creep. Personally, I ironically tend to find this more reasonable. IRL there's no way in hell you can get away remotely with the Wargame style of static lines without eating DPICM artillery and such(in fact, support assets seem to serve very little use outside of dropping smoke in Wargame, something they improved in Steel Division but I feel was still a big issue), and in a lot of ways, even though WiC was more arcadey, from personal experience in the service I found that it was fundamentally FAR more 'authentic' in the way modern, computerized, mechanized, and highly lethal forces would behave and fight.

One of my biggest problems with Wargame and Steel Division(less so,, but still) is that it's just really 'campy' and doesn't really FEEL like modern, mechanized maneuver warfare. Considering Broken Arrow is set in a timeline where you can rapidly call in diverse forms of fire to punish antiquated and old-timey ways of conducting troops, I personally feel that it'd be a big missed opportunity to just have a 'my tank is better than yours' Sort of playstyle where two sides set up in napoleonic lines and smash each other until reinforcements run out. Speed is life, after all, and they really do beat into your head the importance of keeping things moving and seizing the initiative. I think Wargame just has a fundamentally different view of combat that is fine in it's own right, but not really what I'm looking for when I want to play with friends and just get a game going instead of waiting 30 minutes while people min-max decks to rigid metas and then cherry pick their matches in the lobby.