Gloomrot Tweaks to the Map - Awful/Great Castle Spots Disparity

[DexGames]

So there's plenty of youtube videos out now showcasing the map.
And, after hours taking a deep look at it, I'm bugged and amazed at the same time, by the disparity there is between base locations. As there are :

- Obviously GREAT Defensible Base Locations. (just like before Gloomrot)
and still
- Obviously/Shockingly BAD ones. (all the rest of them)

What's crazy to me, is that first : the map is hand crafted.
So you have to actually go in and hand make the changes.
Second, Devs did went in for a year, and remade lots of parts of the map and castle locations, but actually willingly "handmade" a lot of these new and old locations absolutely and blatantly awful.

I really wonder why... If you go in, and you have the goal of "refinning" the map, why would you not "try", as much as possible, to make EVERY base locations somewhat "equal" ? Or at the very least, as closely "good" as each others.

Some of them still have 5 entrances. I've seen one with two entrances, so nothing crazy here, tons of them have that. But they are put in a way, north and south, where regardless from where you're being attacked, it doesn't matter, attackers will just pick a side, enter, instantly be at the center of your base, your stuff in front of them, ready to get picked up and go out so easily, it's actually unfair.

So I don't know, really. I don't care that some of them are big or small, it's really not my point. I don't want all bases to be, one entrance, and extremely defensible etc.

But go in with the goal of refining/remaking the map, and "Handcraft" actual awful locations is beyond me. (they made some previous good one, actually worse)

Maybe it's a design choice, and it probably is. But in a PvP oriented game, one would guess and logically try to make all base locations, within the realm of possibility, as equal to each other as possible.

It's really weird to me...
And in terms of "weird", I'm telling you, some of them are really, really, really weird lol

I'm sure the Game is still as awesome as it was, but I hope they do go back in and tweak some of the awful choices they've made with some of these base locations.

Just what I'm saying, can't wait to play still :)

[Sadistic Magician]

I think the solution is simply in putting rules for castles raids, customizing a server, lower the castle raid hours, don't allow no-lifers super max levels to raid noobs castles or let max levels raid only castles of other max levels... I'm just brainstorming..

I mean everyone can blame the game for the mechanics, but if you have your own server with your rules.. 6 months with 40 slots it's not even that expensive looking on G-Portal..

I was considering to rent a server for 6 months were the most activity will be pvp and castle raids only for max levels. I like this game, I love pvp, but I can't handle that someone can raid my castle after 2 weeks building it, I want pvp, and for good pvp everybody needs a castle

[Tanyon]

"internet kids" "PVE kiddies" umm.. I'm 42 lol. Sorry I know how to interpret game design and understand that the core concepts of this game are PVE with PVP aspects. Like seriously get over yourselves. SOOOO glad I'll just be enjoying the game with my friends doing co-op and not crying over some other dude getting a better base location haha.

[Tanyon]

Origineel geplaatst door Cornelius Mufat:

Origineel geplaatst door DarthTanyon:

"internet kids" "PVE kiddies" umm.. I'm 42 lol. Sorry I know how to interpret game design and understand that the core concepts of this game are PVE with PVP aspects. Like seriously get over yourselves. SOOOO glad I'll just be enjoying the game with my friends doing co-op and not crying over some other dude getting a better base location haha.

oh you're 42? Still playing in a fairyland pve server at that age huh. Maybe one day you'll mature and play with the big dogs where it's life and death.

Right see IF I want to PVP then I go Play PVP games.. like Hunt: Showdown, Escape From Tarkov and SMITE. When I want to relax and enjoy some PVE, base-building and crafting then I play nice relaxing games like this. Let's just be happy that you can play your way and I can play mine.

[Jonkler]

The game is obviously PvP oriented, the fact that you "progress" through PvE doesn't disprove the point at all. If the game wasn't oriented for PvP than a lot of design decisions would be absurd.

Things like inability to TP with resources, which lead to absolutely pointless shore of running across the entire map for no reason whatsoever, limited condensed resource locations such as copper, iron, silver mines, spider cave, battery charging etc, which create a natural choke point to force an interaction between players I actually don't have a slightest clue how people farm this sort of stuff, like what do you do when there is 20 people trying to mine something there, do you just get some scraps and stay afk or in some sort of a queue waiting for resources to respawn OMEGALUL? or stuff that is only relevant to PvP and has absolutely 0 use in PvE such as sieges, golem, keys etc. And the fact that they try to improve sieges by adding new golem skills and giving ability to disable defenses during breach further proves the point.

This decisions only hinder the PvE experience and make it less enjoyable than it could have been while substantially enhancing the PvP side of the game.

P.S. Actually I'm kind of curious how batteries are going to work in PvE, are you going to be able to steal someone else's batteries after they have charged?

[Tanyon]

Origineel geplaatst door Jonkler:

The game is obviously PvP oriented, the fact that you "progress" through PvE doesn't disprove the point at all. If the game wasn't oriented for PvP than a lot of design decisions would be absurd.

Things like inability to TP with resources, which lead to absolutely pointless shore of running across the entire map for no reason whatsoever, limited condensed resource locations such as copper, iron, silver mines, spider cave, battery charging etc, which create a natural choke point to force an interaction between players I actually don't have a slightest clue how people farm this sort of stuff, like what do you do when there is 20 people trying to mine something there, do you just get some scraps and stay afk or in some sort of a queue waiting for resources to respawn OMEGALUL? or stuff that is only relevant to PvP and has absolutely 0 use in PvE such as sieges, golem, keys etc. And the fact that they try to improve sieges by adding new golem skills and giving ability to disable defenses during breach further proves the point.

This decisions only hinder the PvE experience and make it less enjoyable than it could have been while substantially enhancing the PvP side of the game.

Is Valheim a PVP game? You can't TP with metals in that game.. must be PVP oriented.

I do not think anything you listed "hinders" the PVE experience.. it is meant to extend the game life with grind almost every game has it in one form or another. Also, you can tailor a lot of the game play within the settings like simply turning off no teleport with mats.

[Connatic]

The question is, how many "good" territories are there, compared to the standard max players/clans per server?

[Jonkler]

Origineel geplaatst door DarthTanyon:

Origineel geplaatst door Jonkler:

The game is obviously PvP oriented, the fact that you "progress" through PvE doesn't disprove the point at all. If the game wasn't oriented for PvP than a lot of design decisions would be absurd.

Things like inability to TP with resources, which lead to absolutely pointless shore of running across the entire map for no reason whatsoever, limited condensed resource locations such as copper, iron, silver mines, spider cave, battery charging etc, which create a natural choke point to force an interaction between players I actually don't have a slightest clue how people farm this sort of stuff, like what do you do when there is 20 people trying to mine something there, do you just get some scraps and stay afk or in some sort of a queue waiting for resources to respawn OMEGALUL? or stuff that is only relevant to PvP and has absolutely 0 use in PvE such as sieges, golem, keys etc. And the fact that they try to improve sieges by adding new golem skills and giving ability to disable defenses during breach further proves the point.

This decisions only hinder the PvE experience and make it less enjoyable than it could have been while substantially enhancing the PvP side of the game.

Is Valheim a PVP game? You can't TP with metals in that game.. must be PVP oriented.

I do not think anything you listed "hinders" the PVE experience.. it is meant to extend the game life with grind almost every game has it in one form or another. Also, you can tailor a lot of the game play within the settings like simply turning off no teleport with mats.

I have no clue nor care about Valheim, the fact stays true, inability to TP with resources is pointless for PvE, limited resources are pointless for PvE this things only cause frustration and nothing more. The fact that you can change the settings don't prove anything as if it did than we could claim that playing the game with all gear, spells, recipes, etc. from the very beginning is an intended way of playing the game, which is obviously not.

[Jonkler]

Origineel geplaatst door Connatic:

The question is, how many "good" territories are there, compared to the standard max players/clans per server?

The number of castle locations was substantially increased. The majority of locations vary between good and decent. Locations with more than 2 entrances are in minority and new cave passages locations make it so almost anywhere on the map you have a reasonable access to resources from the higher tier zones.

[Connatic]

Origineel geplaatst door Jonkler:

Origineel geplaatst door Connatic:

The question is, how many "good" territories are there, compared to the standard max players/clans per server?

The number of castle locations was substantially increased. The majority of locations vary between good and decent. Locations with more than 2 entrances are in minority and new cave passages locations make it so almost anywhere on the map you have a reasonable access to resources from the higher tier zones.

I'm just asking, is it possible to join a server, and have only garbage territories left that aren't fair or competitive?

[Jonkler]

Origineel geplaatst door Connatic:

Origineel geplaatst door Jonkler:

The number of castle locations was substantially increased. The majority of locations vary between good and decent. Locations with more than 2 entrances are in minority and new cave passages locations make it so almost anywhere on the map you have a reasonable access to resources from the higher tier zones.

I'm just asking, is it possible to join a server, and have only garbage territories left that aren't fair or competitive?

Well it is obviously technically possible if everything else is claimed since the amount of locations is still limited, but it is less probable than before. That's the best answer i can give. But i suppose that the new territory claiming mechanic makes the description about the amount of free territories available on the server that is shown on the screen with the list of the servers more accurate, thus you shall have better understanding of the land situation before joining.

[Kage420]

Origineel geplaatst door DexGames:

Let me rephrase it for the "too long, didn't read" people out there :p
(I don't blame you)

- In a PvP oriented game, shouldn't everybody expect somewhat "equal chances" of defending their base as the ones with "great base locations" ?
- It actually imbalances the game and is blatantly unfair no ? 🧐🤔
- Doesn't it lessens the amount of "playable areas", the amount of places where people would wanna spot their base, claim and defend said spot as "their base" ?
-Make EVERY base locations somewhat "equal", as much as possible.

It would just makes sense to me that they'd chase this goal, as close as they can get to it :\

Tbh this just seems like a participation trophy problem. Why should it all be equal? You should have to fight for the best spots, not just simply build wherever and have literally the same layout.

[Dregora]

It's a pvpve game that clearly wants to cater to both sides. Anybody calling this either a pure pvp game or pure pve game is delusional and biased towards either side.


The reason it's like this is to keep the map different. In terms of pure pvp, this is horrible, because if you want pvp to be properly balanced and equal, everything should have either 2 entrances or 5. It's not, therefore from a pvp perspective, unbalanced.

But it's not a pure pvp game. Nor a pure pve game. Get over it.

[Dakkon]

So I don't want to go into crazy depth on the details of this topic BUT a short answer is there should be arguably better/best spots and spots less optimal.

There are a myriad of design reasons why but its also good from a PvP sense.

The trick is making it so "yes he got the BEST spot but you got a good spot and that only gave him a such a minor advantage that it doesn't matter in the long run".

Now that you can't "wall off" entire late game sections or deny as easily people from getting materials by blocking off zones and are forced to build in specific areas there is even less emphasis on "optimal location".

Some locations have better natural defenses in a PvP but that really doesn't matter as much as having a proper layout for defense. After watching a bunch of PvP videos of like 4v4 raids the initial defense matters a lot less than the fighting after the first wall comes down.

An its usually just a free for all on even larger servers where everyone shows up to see if they can steal anything in the chaos.


The only real argument is does every location have value? Like this place might be ideal for defense but it sucks for material runs. Or this one is right by T3 zones but has a wide opening so defense isn't its best strength.

I think looking at various locations with lots of viable reasons to build there is a good idea but long as the Devs give every spot a good reason to build there then I think having clear strong points means locations will be fought over.

[Caz]

Origineel geplaatst door DexGames:

Origineel geplaatst door Stunty:

They're right though, it's not a PVP oriented game. At least in implementation. The developers may have intended for the spirit of multiplayer to be PVP at its core, but they designed the world for PVE, and the actual game/world design takes precedence in deciding how the game is oriented. (Because intention doesn't matter, only reality.)

If the game were designed for PVP, every single build location would be exactly the same layout. But then you'd complain about how bland and boring that makes it.

In the end, these kinds of unstructured PVP experiences are NOT meant to be "fair" or "equal." They're meant to give power to those with meta knowledge, such as base locations, which is exactly how players are rewarded in PVE for having the same knowledge.

Hope that clears things up for you.

There was no need for clarification. All of you understood the point, you're just a bunch of annoying internet kids, hard trying to look smart :)

Discuss the point, not the semantic.

It's not semantics, though. V Rising is not a pvp oriented game. You throwing a tantrum and flinging insults at people telling you that doesn't magically make it a pvp oriented game.

And since one of your points is based on the assertion that the game is pvp oriented, correcting this mistake is discussing the point.

[Caz]

Origineel geplaatst door Cornelius Mufat:

Origineel geplaatst door DarthTanyon:

"internet kids" "PVE kiddies" umm.. I'm 42 lol. Sorry I know how to interpret game design and understand that the core concepts of this game are PVE with PVP aspects. Like seriously get over yourselves. SOOOO glad I'll just be enjoying the game with my friends doing co-op and not crying over some other dude getting a better base location haha.

oh you're 42? Still playing in a fairyland pve server at that age huh. Maybe one day you'll mature and play with the big dogs where it's life and death.

Says the clown playing in a fairyland to fight other fairyland residents.

If you're a representation of the "big dogs", that's just sad. I've seen stuffed animals with more bite.