Gloomrot Tweaks to the Map - Awful/Great Castle Spots Disparity

[DexGames]

So there's plenty of youtube videos out now showcasing the map.
And, after hours taking a deep look at it, I'm bugged and amazed at the same time, by the disparity there is between base locations. As there are :

- Obviously GREAT Defensible Base Locations. (just like before Gloomrot)
and still
- Obviously/Shockingly BAD ones. (all the rest of them)

What's crazy to me, is that first : the map is hand crafted.
So you have to actually go in and hand make the changes.
Second, Devs did went in for a year, and remade lots of parts of the map and castle locations, but actually willingly "handmade" a lot of these new and old locations absolutely and blatantly awful.

I really wonder why... If you go in, and you have the goal of "refinning" the map, why would you not "try", as much as possible, to make EVERY base locations somewhat "equal" ? Or at the very least, as closely "good" as each others.

Some of them still have 5 entrances. I've seen one with two entrances, so nothing crazy here, tons of them have that. But they are put in a way, north and south, where regardless from where you're being attacked, it doesn't matter, attackers will just pick a side, enter, instantly be at the center of your base, your stuff in front of them, ready to get picked up and go out so easily, it's actually unfair.

So I don't know, really. I don't care that some of them are big or small, it's really not my point. I don't want all bases to be, one entrance, and extremely defensible etc.

But go in with the goal of refining/remaking the map, and "Handcraft" actual awful locations is beyond me. (they made some previous good one, actually worse)

Maybe it's a design choice, and it probably is. But in a PvP oriented game, one would guess and logically try to make all base locations, within the realm of possibility, as equal to each other as possible.

It's really weird to me...
And in terms of "weird", I'm telling you, some of them are really, really, really weird lol

I'm sure the Game is still as awesome as it was, but I hope they do go back in and tweak some of the awful choices they've made with some of these base locations.

Just what I'm saying, can't wait to play still :)

[DexGames]

Let me rephrase it for the "too long, didn't read" people out there :p
(I don't blame you)

- In a PvP oriented game, shouldn't everybody expect somewhat "equal chances" of defending their base as the ones with "great base locations" ?
- It actually imbalances the game and is blatantly unfair no ? 🧐🤔
- Doesn't it lessens the amount of "playable areas", the amount of places where people would wanna spot their base, claim and defend said spot as "their base" ?
-Make EVERY base locations somewhat "equal", as much as possible.

It would just makes sense to me that they'd chase this goal, as close as they can get to it :\

[Tanyon]

I'm so glad I don't play PVP in this game.. this post alone just gave me anxiety.. have fun.. !!

Also, how is this a PVP oriented game?? lol.. I played with 12 other people on 2 separate servers none of us played any PVP.

[The Burner]

This is something I noticed the month it released. There were about a half dozen or so REALLY good positions with great building space that could be full claimed to prevent flying/leap shenanigans w/ a single point of entry. You could effectively create a room with a bunch of decked right at that single point of entry to serve as a kill box.

If you didn't get one of those spots you had to pray you stayed lowkey or you'd get steam rolled.

[DexGames]

Originally posted by Politically Incorrect:

Originally posted by DexGames:

In a PvP oriented game

It's not a PvP oriented game.

Ok bro, good talk.
Keep it up ;)

[PhilHoliday]

In my Stephen A Smith voice..... "Can we just pump the breaks?" LOL! Let the update come out and people experience it 1st, before all this fair and unfair conjecture. Especially since there might be a chance some of your points might be addressed in the update.

Development takes time only so many things can be addressed at a time. Being that it is still early access, it might be something that is on the list to do. Also, as someone that has done a lot of PvP having one of the prime spots is not as advantageous as you make it sound like being steamrolled without one. There are a lot more variables than just location. It is more beneficial for defense purposes.

Having a game where everything is in balanced for pvp is very difficult to do. This is also a pve game, so I am sure their focus is not solely on pvp. Having a variety of landscapes to build on caters to other player, some player may just want to build castles. Just because you "feel" it is a pvp oriented game does not mean it is.

[Rappeldrache]

I'm a "Builder" and RPG-preson. And I hate the new map, too!

I need a "single" large castle location (bit on the outskirts) with a possibility to have a large beautiful garden (with a little lake) and had a few location for this ... and they destroyed them.

I loved so mutch two location in the Dunley farmlands. They were made for builder and roleplaying: In the left and the right lower corner. With a lake, large trees and beautiful flowery grassland.
In the left corner they have deleted the entrance to the garden And in the right upper corner they have increase the neighbor location so mutch, that you can't have a large garden anymore ....

I'm soooo sad right now ..... I don't know where the focus is, but NOT on builder and RPG, too.

PS: This DLC in general is really very hard for builder ... You can't imagine how mutch time I spend to create my castle and the garden and now all is gone. But ok, I hoped to get something new ... and now ...

[Tanyon]

Originally posted by Rappeldrache:

I'm a "Builder" and RPG-preson. And I hate the new map, too!

I need a "single" large castle location (bit on the outskirts) with a possibility to have a large beautiful garden (with a little lake) and had a few location for this ... and they destroyed them. :ShockedOwlcat:

I loved so mutch two location in the Dunley farmlands. They were made for builder and roleplaying: In the left and the right lower corner. With a lake, large trees and beautiful flowery grassland.
In the left corner they have deleted the entrance to the garden And in the right upper corner they have increase the neighbor location so mutch, that you can't have a large garden anymore ....

I'm soooo sad right now ..... I don't know where the focus is, but NOT on builder and RPG, too.

PS: This DLC in general is really very hard for builder ... You can't imagine how mutch time I spend to create my castle and the garden and now all is gone. But ok, I hoped to get something new ... and now ...

But you can have 3 floors now so your actual castle foot print should be 1/3 what it was.. does that not leave enough room for a garden??

[Scrunch]

Originally posted by DexGames:

Originally posted by Politically Incorrect:

It's not a PvP oriented game.

Ok bro, good talk.
Keep it up ;)

They're right though, it's not a PVP oriented game. At least in implementation. The developers may have intended for the spirit of multiplayer to be PVP at its core, but they designed the world for PVE, and the actual game/world design takes precedence in deciding how the game is oriented. (Because intention doesn't matter, only reality.)

If the game were designed for PVP, every single build location would be exactly the same layout. But then you'd complain about how bland and boring that makes it.

In the end, these kinds of unstructured PVP experiences are NOT meant to be "fair" or "equal." They're meant to give power to those with meta knowledge, such as base locations, which is exactly how players are rewarded in PVE for having the same knowledge.

Hope that clears things up for you.

[Rappeldrache]

Originally posted by DarthTanyon:

Originally posted by Rappeldrache:

I'm a "Builder" and RPG-preson. And I hate the new map, too!

I need a "single" large castle location (bit on the outskirts) with a possibility to have a large beautiful garden (with a little lake) and had a few location for this ... and they destroyed them.

I loved so mutch two location in the Dunley farmlands. They were made for builder and roleplaying: In the left and the right lower corner. With a lake, large trees and beautiful flowery grassland.
In the left corner they have deleted the entrance to the garden And in the right upper corner they have increase the neighbor location so mutch, that you can't have a large garden anymore ....

I'm soooo sad right now ..... I don't know where the focus is, but NOT on builder and RPG, too.

PS: This DLC in general is really very hard for builder ... You can't imagine how mutch time I spend to create my castle and the garden and now all is gone. But ok, I hoped to get something new ... and now ...

But you can have 3 floors now so your actual castle foot print should be 1/3 what it was.. does that not leave enough room for a garden??

Sorry, don't want to hijack your thread. But I have to answer to this:

I have to be a bit ironic: "Oh yes, right: Now I can create a large grassland garden with lakes on my roof. Sorry that I haven't seen this incredible option."
They destroyed the best RPG and builder location (who were not valuable spots for PvE or PvP player, but very important for builder & RPG-gamer) just for nothing ... there are not enough floors I could get to replace this.

(English is not my frist language, don't intent to be mean or unfriendly !! )

[[TAG]Alblaka]

Originally posted by Stunty:

They're right though, it's not a PVP oriented game. At least in implementation. The developers may have intended for the spirit of multiplayer to be PVP at its core, but they designed the world for PVE, and the actual game/world design takes precedence in deciding how the game is oriented. (Because intention doesn't matter, only reality.)

If the game were designed for PVP, every single build location would be exactly the same layout. But then you'd complain about how bland and boring that makes it.

In the end, these kinds of unstructured PVP experiences are NOT meant to be "fair" or "equal." They're meant to give power to those with meta knowledge, such as base locations, which is exactly how players are rewarded in PVE for having the same knowledge.

Hope that clears things up for you.

There's an even far simpler argument to make: How do you progress? Via PvP? Or PvE? :D

[Scrunch]

Originally posted by TAGAlblaka:

Originally posted by Stunty:

They're right though, it's not a PVP oriented game. At least in implementation. The developers may have intended for the spirit of multiplayer to be PVP at its core, but they designed the world for PVE, and the actual game/world design takes precedence in deciding how the game is oriented. (Because intention doesn't matter, only reality.)

If the game were designed for PVP, every single build location would be exactly the same layout. But then you'd complain about how bland and boring that makes it.

In the end, these kinds of unstructured PVP experiences are NOT meant to be "fair" or "equal." They're meant to give power to those with meta knowledge, such as base locations, which is exactly how players are rewarded in PVE for having the same knowledge.

Hope that clears things up for you.

There's an even far simpler argument to make: How do you progress? Via PvP? Or PvE? :D

I'm not sure if you mean, like, the way the game intends you to progress, or how the player chooses to progress. I'd like an even mix of both, but PVP in these games is usually boring to me since it devolves into larger groups ganking smaller ones, almost exclusively.

[alan0n]

Originally posted by Politically Incorrect:

Originally posted by DexGames:

In a PvP oriented game

It's not a PvP oriented game.

...It totally is a pvp oriented game though?

[[TAG]Alblaka]

Originally posted by Stunty:

Originally posted by TAGAlblaka:

There's an even far simpler argument to make: How do you progress? Via PvP? Or PvE? :D

I'm not sure if you mean, like, the way the game intends you to progress, or how the player chooses to progress. I'd like an even mix of both, but PVP in these games is usually boring to me since it devolves into larger groups ganking smaller ones, almost exclusively.

I mean that it's physically impossible to progress in the game via PvP. You have to kill bosses. Hence the game is PvE in nature, albeit with a combat system and server platform that allows for PvP on top of that.

[Yumeko]

It is correct that some base spots/areas are far superior to others, especially in regards to soft castle stacking. Definitely questionable.

[Venthus]

Originally posted by DexGames:

But in a PvP oriented game

Uhm it's not a PVP orientated game. It's PVE game with PVP aspects. Because most of the features in the game have nothing to do with how to successfully raid a base. They could have left it all out. On the other hand a game like Rust is PVP orientated as the items needed to raid the base are top tier and not relatively easy to get.
Why always the crying about balance. Maybe find a game with only one class and be happy sit in your own bubble.