Dodge?

[Mister Sir]

Is this game aware that it has 8 sec cd dodge?

[@%thesock10150alpha49]

Originally posted by Mercurial:

The first time I felt a need to switch weapons mid combat was Adam, swapping to a weapon that had a dodge for his sky dive attack.

Well, if you only stuck to one weapon for the whole run, I'd genuinely love to know which one. I don't switch mid-combat, but I do find myself bringing the one that will have an advantage.

Originally posted by Mercurial:

I'm talking about average schmoes with almost-40 reflexes that just enjoy a good action game challenge, and are okay with doing my roleplaying when overleveled or on easier servers.

I have to chalk that up to a difference in perspective. Challenge is all well and good, but the bosses are never overcome by being better than them. You just learn their patterns, figure out what counters them, and then win. Bosses that I had to try 4,5, or even 6 times turned into mere annoyances, once I have their "answer." For me, there's no satisfaction in that.

And the point of a build in an RPG is to have a character that grows through the progression. If it doesn't come online until the end of the game, then there's nothing left to grow with. You're just that dude, in really cool armor.

In the end, I really hope to see much better players than I start running Brutal with sets intentionally avoiding using the proper counters to the boss. Cause at the moment I'm playing it the "Right" way and I've hated every minute of it.

[Jimmy the Crow]

Originally posted by towly:

yes very sure, the veil is not your only tool in your belt to avoid dmg

then you have a counter. that is also 10 seconds or more.

Dumb

[Jimmy the Crow]

Originally posted by Shift:

Dodge is mostly used as panic button in this game, don't spam it and don't rely on it as if it's just another souls game. In this game, you must learn positioning and smart use of your other skills to always be outside of harms way. All bosses up to the last one can be done without being hit once, even with a 8s dodge.

no you dont. You learn combos. Mace e, spear q. ult. Lmfao thats all you need to know

[Mercurial]

Originally posted by @%thesock10150alpha49:

Originally posted by Mercurial:

The first time I felt a need to switch weapons mid combat was Adam, swapping to a weapon that had a dodge for his sky dive attack.

Well, if you only stuck to one weapon for the whole run, I'd genuinely love to know which one. I don't switch mid-combat, but I do find myself bringing the one that will have an advantage.

I didn't use one weapon the whole game, I just didn't switch weapons in the middle of a fight. I would decide if it felt better to use a longbow or melee in a particular fight, and stick with that, until I either won, died, or reset the fight and reconsidered. A boss like Cyril is very easy slow-pacing it with Longbow Q, and a boss like Raziel or Christina felt much easier Melee.

Now that I'm experienced, I can safely say I'd feel fine doing the whole game with Greatsword. It has a movement skill, an invul dodge, high primary DPS, and a very high DPS burst skill. GS and Slashers are both fantastic jack of all trade weapons, with Gun probably a close second, I just don't like slashers much.

I have to chalk that up to a difference in perspective. Challenge is all well and good, but the bosses are never overcome by being better than them. You just learn their patterns, figure out what counters them, and then win. Bosses that I had to try 4,5, or even 6 times turned into mere annoyances, once I have their "answer." For me, there's no satisfaction in that.

...

... with sets intentionally avoiding using the proper counters to the boss. Cause at the moment I'm playing it the "Right" way and I've hated every minute of it.

This is an exceedingly weird desire, IMO.

Figuring out the "right way" to do a boss is exactly what I like about V Rising bosses. I like discovering that Maja is easy if you bully her out of the center of the arena and just focus adds. I like discovering that Bane is easy if you do Meredith/Grethel first and track their disguise with static. I like learning Adam's Left,Right,Left/Right and Back,Back,Left/Right patterns to avoid his basic attack strings. I like that Dracula flows much easier if you take a bite out of Phase 2 by bringing him to the edge of Phase 1 and then loading damage when he does the spiral attack that takes forever.

If I wanted to play a game that just tested things like raw reflexes, I'd play an actually competitive game, like fighting games or FPS games. Disliking PvE games for puzzle mechanics is very weird to me.

[@%thesock10150alpha49]

Originally posted by Mercurial:

If I wanted to play a game that just tested things like raw reflexes, I'd play an actually competitive game, like fighting games or FPS games. Disliking PvE games for puzzle mechanics is very weird to me.

Cause to me it doesn't need to be strictly just a puzzle. Especially so since the puzzle is getting in the way of my agency as a player. And personally, I never understood why people needed the default settings to be hard.

If you say that you want a challenge, but then insist on their being a specific solution, then it doesn't really matter how "hard" the challenge is because the answer will still solve it. And now, because you've insisted on this insane difficulty, you also can't create any new ways to solve it because anything other than the specific answer will be impossible.

I have taken plenty of games that were "too easy" and made them hard. Permadeath runs, speedrun challenges, iron-mans, etc. If you really want to be challenged, ditch the counters, throw on some hollowfang level gear on and go try to out-melee Vincent. That would be a challenge.

But again, I think it really is a difference of perspective. I want this game to live up to it's full RPG capabilities and the soulslike skillshot aspects definitely conflict with that, as you said earlier.

[Nightmare]

lol reading the comments in this post is funny. Get good, learn what beats each boss, get better blood/prisoners. Figure it out, stop whining.

[LUFFY]

good

[Smug Kot]

why so many long resposnes? just spam git gud.

[II-KING-II]

They should just remove the dodge, there no more problems

[The Beast]

Originally posted by Mister Sir:

Is this game aware that it has 8 sec cd dodge?

Don't bother asking others, they are just braindead.
It seems it's hard to understand the mechanics of a well balanced and tuned game nowdays...

It seems that noticing issues in a "indie" game is like calling it ♥♥♥♥, that clearly is not.

This game has a ton of issues, balancing is not ok, pvp is awful (and i'm ok with pvp).

After my last pos was called out as "entitled" I stopped bothering tellin what could (in my opinion) enhance the game.

cheers and GL with you trying to explain those paladins what's wrong with the game...

[traviniperv]

Originally posted by Mister Sir:

It actually blows my mind more than a game itself how many people assume I or someone else who plays this game does not know that you can move or use skills to dodge... Obviously I know all of that, just cause you can order something else of the menu does not mean that a actual turd salad should be there.

Maybe you need another game?

[grraf]

Originally posted by The Beast:

Originally posted by Mister Sir:

Is this game aware that it has 8 sec cd dodge?

Don't bother asking others, they are just braindead.
It seems it's hard to understand the mechanics of a well balanced and tuned game nowdays...

It seems that noticing issues in a "indie" game is like calling it ♥♥♥♥, that clearly is not.

This game has a ton of issues, balancing is not ok, pvp is awful (and i'm ok with pvp).

After my last pos was called out as "entitled" I stopped bothering tellin what could (in my opinion) enhance the game.

cheers and GL with you trying to explain those paladins what's wrong with the game...

The Dunning-Kruger effect would like to say hello : don't we find it odd how the ones that struggle the most seem to know best&most about how awful&unbalanced the game is ?!

Is some stuff over-tuned ?! sure that's why periodic balance updates are being made to address those exact instances but how is what you are asking for any better ?!(no dash cooldown/0.5sec(whatever other absurdly low number you guys would put forward) it would instantly remove/or at least make using off shields&immaterial spells a non viable option ; also what would be the point of projectile type spells if you can dodge at will at any point(why/how would they ever hit then) ?!

You boys are asking for the fps equivalent of a Sniper rifle with a gattling gun's rate of fire and the range of a cruise missile and then calling everybody that sees this as busted a moron for not understanding how awesome your idea is... trust use we know just how 'awesome' that is and that is precisely why we don't wish to see it.

[LongDongDude]

Originally posted by Mister Sir:

Is this game aware that it has 8 sec cd dodge?

you can just walk around most attacks lul

[Xero]

Originally posted by LongDongDude:

Originally posted by Mister Sir:

Is this game aware that it has 8 sec cd dodge?

you can just walk around most attacks lul

The OP knows this. Some join in on the conversation without reading what others and the OP have discussed. Which the OP has a choice to either ignore most or have to repeat them self, which will cause a never ending discussion.

[Darth_Angeal]

Originally posted by Mister Sir:

I might look like I am disagreeing with you here but I am really not, just offering a perspective. Most people here assume I just spam dodge while standing still or something, while completely ignoring when I clearly state that I do use every tool in the kit and beat most bosses in 1-2 tries.

In my opinion it's ok to use every tool in your kit and it's great that some of those tools are defensive. What I do not like and where I agree with you is that the way game is designed the theme of your build can seriously suffer. If you look at basically any pvp build, it's a defensive ability + dash ult + usually a buff. Some might run some damage ability, sure but I do not see it often and that does limit the play style a lot. You also can't blame the players cause how the f are you suppose to dodge other players when your dodge has 8 sec ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cool down? Yes there are footsies that can be done, aka walking around and such and baiting certain attacks but lets be real here, you aint gonna get away from some of those hit boxes.

Lets say dodge something you can spam, well it feels like game would be too easy then, right? Not really, cause if you just spam dodge in souls games you just die, so it can be done but hey, different game, maybe it would not work well here for balance and be overpower so ok sure, but maybe give two charges that can be used at any time with their own cd rather than force basically everyone run chaos veil? Also yeah I don't really see that many builds and I feel like I am only ice user on my entire server.

1. There will always be a meta-game in every game.

2. There are obviously skills which are more useful in PvE and some which are more useful in PvE.

3. Not every boss requires defensive skills, there are a bunch where you can go full damage even on brutal difficulty. Meanwhile 2-3 are better done with 2 counters or something. It really depends on the boss, but so far NEARLY every boss can be done with any build. Warwick and the last 3 seem to be the only bosses where you pretty much need a counter, while you don´t want to use summon-skills on the witch in the tower. But thats it so far.

4. Pretty much every weapon comes with a dodge-ability.

5. Spamming dodge doesn´t mean you´ll die in souls-games, it just means that you suck.

6. There will be a double-dodge later.

Summary: It´s good as it is and should stay like that. The combat in this game is fantastic, if anything balancing might need more love or better, the devs should balance around PvE since i highly doubt PvP will survive in this one.