Adam the Firstborn re-tune

[Sorain]

OK, so we all know this fight by now, I think 90% of people, including those of us who have beat him, are sick of him. Its a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying fight, but I'm not here to ♥♥♥♥♥ about it, but rather to provide just a few options to make him more fun and less ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. For those of you who like the fight, that's fine, we can leave brutal the same as it is now. Y'all go nuts. For us normal people, here's a few tweaks that would make the fight more satisfying and less irritating.

1: start with the electricity off. You can already cheese the fight to start this way, just do it like that by default. it allows you to focus more on the brawl of it, which is where the design of the fight is actually fantastic and some of the best in the game

2: destroying a lightning emitter once keeps it out of commission permanently. I wanna kill this guy, not fight his house the entire time.

3: make summons more useful by drawing his aggro every once in awhile, like every other boss in the game.

Phase 2 changes

1: no more vanishing from the arena. Seriously we are indoors where the hell does he go? replace it with a big AOE but a little more predictable. Yes you can dodge it and I have but its just irritating for no reason and immersion breaking.

2: make the lightning vortex randomly moving (like the rest of the bosses) and slightly larger instead of following me everywhere.

Note that these changes don't actually make the fight easier persay, you still gotta learn his move set, still gotta dodge smart and split attention with environment, but now, it's less cheese-prone and just enough more predictable to not make it so irritating. As it is now, I genuinely feel like its a crapshoot whether or not I'll win because of the randomness of the above mechanics, which imo is what feels so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about the fight.

also its worth noting that this guy is meant to be the stepping stone to Dracula. Dracula has gotten nerfed like 6 times by now, Adam has not, so assuming he's overtuned still is not at all unreasonable as an assumption. He needs work.

PS: I beat the fight so all "git gud" comments will be ignored and/or mocked I'm not interested

[Shuriko]

So you beat a locked in hermit with a prosthesis. You proud of it you bully?

[Allisonlj]

Nice, constructive criticism, enjoy your vitriolic replies from people who didn't read until the end and just tell you to git good.

You mention brutal tuning is needed-- i respect that you can even play on brutal lol. Personally i am NOT good, i KNOW i am not good, so i play on normal difficulty.... and i was unable to beat this guy solo and enlisted a buddy to come help that was able to down him after just a few tries... except with the 2 of us it got even harder with the scaling... Boss threat is all over the place and he can be whacking one of us and suddenly 180 to slam someone else then go right back to the first guy... so dumb. We called in a 3rd buddy who is actually really good at these games and it went so smooth i felt really lame.... shrug.

There are people that like cheese... and i do too, on crackers... and for all the hours i have in elden ring i feel like the bosses (and dodging) are far more tuned there than on V rising -- or at least more predicable after the first few attempts. This boss is just a cancer.

[Sorain]

Originally posted by Allisonlj:

Nice, constructive criticism, enjoy your vitriolic replies from people who didn't read until the end and just tell you to git good.

You mention brutal tuning is needed-- i respect that you can even play on brutal lol. Personally i am NOT good, i KNOW i am not good, so i play on normal difficulty.... and i was unable to beat this guy solo and enlisted a buddy to come help that was able to down him after just a few tries... except with the 2 of us it got even harder with the scaling... Boss threat is all over the place and he can be whacking one of us and suddenly 180 to slam someone else then go right back to the first guy... so dumb. We called in a 3rd buddy who is actually really good at these games and it went so smooth i felt really lame.... shrug.

There are people that like cheese... and i do too, on crackers... and for all the hours i have in elden ring i feel like the bosses (and dodging) are far more tuned there than on V rising -- or at least more predicable after the first few attempts. This boss is just a cancer.

actually I dont play on brutal. All the tuning here is for normal. I specified keeping brutal the same since ppl who play there tend to not have an issue, but a few of these ideas, like the no disapearing and the non-follow vortex, could apply there, I just am not qualified to suggest brutal tweaks

[Sorain]

Originally posted by theworld:

Originally posted by Sorain:

Note that these changes don't actually make the fight easier persay,

You are literally suggesting permanent destruction of the Generators, which is trivial to do.

If there aren't any Generators it's hard to make any mistakes in this fight.

its already easy to turn off the generators, but its annoying to have to do constantly. It also causes an issue where sometimes, if you dont dodge the grab, you get thrown into a beam and the fight is essentially over. This is what I mean by the fight being a crapshoot, sometimes easy sometimes impossible. Being able to eventually (even if its not first hit) remove them would again just make it less irritating

[Mercurial]

Originally posted by Sorain:

OK, so we all know this fight by now, I think 90% of people, including those of us who have beat him, are sick of him.

Nah, we're not.

Its a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying fight, but I'm not here to ♥♥♥♥♥ about it,

It really isn't, and you really are, obviously.

1: start with the electricity off. You can already cheese the fight to start this way, just do it like that by default. it allows you to focus more on the brawl of it, which is where the design of the fight is actually fantastic and some of the best in the game

This would be a great addition for Relaxed difficulty. But no, you cannot cheese the fight to start that way on all difficulties, and knowing how to do that on lower difficulties is game knowledge and worth preserving.

2: destroying a lightning emitter once keeps it out of commission permanently. I wanna kill this guy, not fight his house the entire time.

Obviously a bad idea. Identical to removing the generators entirely, in practice.

3: make summons more useful by drawing his aggro every once in awhile, like every other boss in the game.

They do.

Phase 2 changes

1: no more vanishing from the arena. Seriously we are indoors where the hell does he go? replace it with a big AOE but a little more predictable. Yes you can dodge it and I have but its just irritating for no reason and immersion breaking.

It's a tall cathedral. There's obviously room for him at the top of it.

Secondly, him still being there would make an already challenging phase more difficult.

2: make the lightning vortex randomly moving (like the rest of the bosses) and slightly larger instead of following me everywhere.

You seem to be referring to bosses like Solarus. Who don't summon one randomly moving vortex. They summon like 5. If Adam did that you'd be even more upset.

Note that these changes don't actually make the fight easier persay,

They obviously do.

you still gotta learn his move set, still gotta dodge smart and split attention with environment,

False dichotomy. You're attempting to reduce needing to learn less and dodge less to "do I have to learn literally anything or do I have to learn literally nothing". Very low-intellect argument.

also its worth noting that this guy is meant to be the stepping stone to Dracula. Dracula has gotten nerfed like 6 times by now, Adam has not, so assuming he's overtuned still is not at all unreasonable as an assumption.

1) No, Drac really hasn't.

2) B got nerfed so A must be overtuned is a braindead deduction.

PS: I beat the fight so all "git gud" comments will be ignored and/or

Your participation is not required in mocking your terrible opinions on the game.

[theworld]

Originally posted by Sorain:

This is what I mean by the fight being a crapshoot, sometimes easy sometimes impossible.

Bro, it's never impossible on Normal. The amount of mistakes you can get away with on Normal is surreal. You can straight up just nuke him down with Void + Bone Explosion even without Scholar blood.

if you dont dodge the grab

You don't need to dodge the grab. The grab is TRIVIAL to outwalk, proof:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-003pFARyI

[torqueblue]

I'm not sick of the Fight, I actually like the Fight as is. There's nothing wrong with the fight, I can't understand how players are not understanding how the fight works.

I've beaten Adam During Gloomrot and Here now at 1.0 in Brutal and there was little difference in the fight.

So the Generators have a shield and can't be disabled right away, oh no. That's super hard. so you'll have to fight in close quarters for a bit, big deal. I don't have any idea how people beat Henry who has a much tinier arena is pretty much the same thing. The Lightning Bolts that get called down come down faster, probably, but there are ways to avoid that.

Adam doesn't need Tuning, He's fine the way he is. Whether I'm fighting him with Range or Melee he's completely doable. The only thing I don't think i've tried is spell casting, but that's a boring way to fight. Spells are just meh too me.

[Xero]

I'm currently trying to fight Adam on brutal now. And I've watched videos of players beating him on brutal. There's just too much going on all at once. Environmental laser grid, lightning hot spots and lightning spark balls. All while trying to focus on his next move. Yeah, a bit much.

Then again, I thought Solarus The Immaculate was tough till I finally beat him after dying so many times.

[Sorain]

Originally posted by Mercurial:

Originally posted by Sorain:

OK, so we all know this fight by now, I think 90% of people, including those of us who have beat him, are sick of him.

Nah, we're not.

Its a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying fight, but I'm not here to ♥♥♥♥♥ about it,

It really isn't, and you really are, obviously.

1: start with the electricity off. You can already cheese the fight to start this way, just do it like that by default. it allows you to focus more on the brawl of it, which is where the design of the fight is actually fantastic and some of the best in the game

This would be a great addition for Relaxed difficulty. But no, you cannot cheese the fight to start that way on all difficulties, and knowing how to do that on lower difficulties is game knowledge and worth preserving.

2: destroying a lightning emitter once keeps it out of commission permanently. I wanna kill this guy, not fight his house the entire time.

Obviously a bad idea. Identical to removing the generators entirely, in practice.

3: make summons more useful by drawing his aggro every once in awhile, like every other boss in the game.

They do.

Phase 2 changes

1: no more vanishing from the arena. Seriously we are indoors where the hell does he go? replace it with a big AOE but a little more predictable. Yes you can dodge it and I have but its just irritating for no reason and immersion breaking.

It's a tall cathedral. There's obviously room for him at the top of it.

Secondly, him still being there would make an already challenging phase more difficult.

2: make the lightning vortex randomly moving (like the rest of the bosses) and slightly larger instead of following me everywhere.

You seem to be referring to bosses like Solarus. Who don't summon one randomly moving vortex. They summon like 5. If Adam did that you'd be even more upset.

Note that these changes don't actually make the fight easier persay,

They obviously do.

you still gotta learn his move set, still gotta dodge smart and split attention with environment,

False dichotomy. You're attempting to reduce needing to learn less and dodge less to "do I have to learn literally anything or do I have to learn literally nothing". Very low-intellect argument.

also its worth noting that this guy is meant to be the stepping stone to Dracula. Dracula has gotten nerfed like 6 times by now, Adam has not, so assuming he's overtuned still is not at all unreasonable as an assumption.

1) No, Drac really hasn't.

2) B got nerfed so A must be overtuned is a braindead deduction.

PS: I beat the fight so all "git gud" comments will be ignored and/or

Your participation is not required in mocking your terrible opinions on the game.

You have missed my fundamental issue. My problem is not that he's too hard. I enjoy the challenge. He's different from the other bosses in that you mostly outwalk him instead of using veils. My issue is that I'd like the fight to focus MORE on that and less on ♥♥♥♥♥♥ area denial. Perfect placement walking around an aggressive and multi-paced boss is great. Area denial less so.

Also player summons drawing too little aggro is a common game problem so perhaps I overfocused on that cause it annoys me personally.

Lastly, note that I remain civil with you despite your vitriol. I'm not here to sling ♥♥♥♥ with strangers, I'm here to trade ideas. Im willing to be wrong. You sound like a child. Do better.

[Sorain]

Also you criticized two of my points saying they'd make the fight harder not easier. I am at peace with that and stand by my statements. I think they changes would improve it especially with the other ones. Tuning, not nerfing.

As for Dracula within the first 3 hotfixes since release from early access Dracula got rebalanced twice. Go check the patch notes

[Sorain]

Originally posted by Xero:

Then again, I thought Solarus The Immaculate was tough till I finally beat him after dying so many times.

Exactly. Solaris is hard, but at least for me it never felt bs. Adam I just knuckled down and got it over with, despite how much i do enjoy his uniqueness, Solaris was a blast. Great fun.

What I wanna figure out is the difference. Maybe I just need to try more spell combos who knows

[Butcher]

Wait till you try Dracula on brutal...

[Xero]

Originally posted by Butcher:

Wait till you try Dracula on brutal...

I died, no joke, probably 60 times with Solarus The Immaculate before figuring out you have to kill the Angel guy first. I can't even make it to phase 2 with Adam. I got close. Phase 2 will probably just open up another can of whoop___ with a bunch of surprise new moves. Watching the videos doesn't help. They make it look easy. I guess it's all about keeping your cool and not hesitating.

I just traveled to Dracula's castle the other night to use the key amulet for the first time. Went through the portal rift and turned back around. I'm sure it'll be fun.

[Xero]

I didn't watch videos for Solarus The Immaculate. I try not to watch them and figure out the strategy myself. You are right though. If I had watched the videos of Solarus, it would have helped. But with Adam The Firstborn, I did watch. Watching the videos just reveals the strategy and recommends spells to use.

They make it look easy and keep their cool. But when you're in the driver's seat and everything is coming at you at once, I had to see what others are doing to prevent less damage. I'll get him. Just going to take a minute. And by a minute, I mean probably another 60 deaths. lol And that's with watching the videos of Adam.

[Firecam]

Worse fight by design.