Research is supposed to be smart.

[Hellspawned]

I've played a fair bit now, into my 200th day and making steady progress, but one thing still eludes me: The ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ paper press. I have near 5 chests full of saw dust and another 7 of plant fibre just waiting for the press, but it continues to evade discovery.

In short, I would like to see some way for research to be controlled, both to allay my own frustration and because it makes sense. No believable research, be it fictional or real-life, begins with someone sitting down with a completely blank slate and just inventing something at random. No, you start with a vision, a goal, a perceived problem, and you engineer a solution to it.

To translate this into an in-game mechanic, it would make sense that you get to pick a category of research to put your paper/scrolls towards - Armour, Weapons, Consumables, Production buildings or Aesthetics, for example - and you make a random discovery within that category when you spend your scrolls. You could even have it cost extra resources to aim your research - As it sits, I've got resources of most kinds coming out of my ears, save for scrolls and paper.

It would be both more fulfilling, more on-theme, and less frustrating to have this option. Please consider it.

[Vin]

that would just make it easier than it already is. go into human town kill and smash things get copies of books for research you already have and give them to the devourer. combine that with the paper you already picked up from kills and you will smash through research.

they could have made the random research do duplicates. bless them for not doing that ridiculousness.

[Hellspawned]

Originally posted by Vin:

that would just make it easier than it already is. go into human town kill and smash things get copies of books for research you already have and give them to the devourer. combine that with the paper you already picked up from kills and you will smash through research.

they could have made the random research do duplicates. bless them for not doing that ridiculousness.

I don't think we're playing on the same settings. I've had less than 10 duplicate books in my time of very actively playing. Out of 200 days, I've spent perhaps 5 in my castle, the rest has been out in the field beating on enemies.

And really, is the RNG and the grind the main point of the game, or just an unnecessary obstacle to artificially extend the game time? I think the game already is content-rich enough that they don't need to do that, if indeed it is a conscious choice rather than a throw-away default they just went with and never really went back to analyse properly.

[Leslian Lexter]

Just raid the two villages in Dunley, every night, and you will be swimming in scrolls.

[Vin]

Originally posted by Hellspawned:

Originally posted by Vin:

that would just make it easier than it already is. go into human town kill and smash things get copies of books for research you already have and give them to the devourer. combine that with the paper you already picked up from kills and you will smash through research.

they could have made the random research do duplicates. bless them for not doing that ridiculousness.

I don't think we're playing on the same settings. I've had less than 10 duplicate books in my time of very actively playing. Out of 200 days, I've spent perhaps 5 in my castle, the rest has been out in the field beating on enemies.

And really, is the RNG and the grind the main point of the game, or just an unnecessary obstacle to artificially extend the game time? I think the game already is content-rich enough that they don't need to do that, if indeed it is a conscious choice rather than a throw-away default they just went with and never really went back to analyse properly.

its a survival game. which survival game (that you have played) doesnt have grinding, farming, and RNG?

[Vin]

Originally posted by Leslian Lexter:

Just raid the two villages in Dunley, every night, and you will be swimming in scrolls.

pretty much this.

[Hellspawned]

Originally posted by Leslian Lexter:

Just raid the two villages in Dunley, every night, and you will be swimming in scrolls.

Sure, I could do that, but is that what the game is supposed to be about: Repeating the same steps that you've already done and mastered eleventy-twelve times over, just to negotiate a throw-away mechanic?

Listen, I don't mind a bit of grind. As per my suggestion above, you would still need as many papers, scrolls and schematics to finish out your research. Possibly more, as you'd be incentivised to scrap books for materials to put towards the research you actually want.
It's just that currently, the game has no way to be smart about research, which is quite an ironic concept, if you think about it.

You're necessitated to keep headbutting that proverbial concrete wall, all the while praying that the wall breaks before your head does. That's downright bad game design. And since the game is in early access, there's still a chance that it could improve, become smarter.

[Hellspawned]

Originally posted by Vin:

its a survival game. which survival game (that you have played) doesnt have grinding, farming, and RNG?

You'd still need to grind with my suggested system. The same amount (or possibly more) materials would be required to finish out the tech trees. What I'm suggesting is a system that would reward planning your research a bit more, instead of just rewarding dumb luck with (mostly) dumb prices.

[Vin]

Originally posted by Hellspawned:

Originally posted by Vin:

its a survival game. which survival game (that you have played) doesnt have grinding, farming, and RNG?

You'd still need to grind with my suggested system. The same amount (or possibly more) materials would be required to finish out the tech trees. What I'm suggesting is a system that would reward planning your research a bit more, instead of just rewarding dumb luck with (mostly) dumb prices.

the way they have it setup, you gain all kinds of things you need just by raiding the towns along side farming the paper. it is incentive.

the only RNG present is that you discover them at random. there is no duplication in the discovery. whether it takes 10 discoveries or 1 discovery you cant randomly discover a duplicate.

the paper press speeds this process up.

[Hellspawned]

Originally posted by Vin:

the way they have it setup, you gain all kinds of things you need just by raiding the towns along side farming the paper. it is incentive.

the only RNG present is that you discover them at random. there is no duplication in the discovery. whether it takes 10 discoveries or 1 discovery you cant randomly discover a duplicate.

the paper press speeds this process up.

Following that logic, shouldn't you get worse and worse weapons and gear as your progress through the game? I mean, better gear just "speeds this process up", after all, and it sounds like you consider this a bad thing.

Snark aside, there's a bit more to it that that. I've raided the same farms repeatedly, and gotten anything from 1 scroll to 2 stacks of scrolls time. So there's at least two layers of RNG at play here, and it's needless, brainless activity.

If you have nothing else taking up your time, I guess you can let that pass without comment, but most people don't have unlimited time (or unlimited patience, for that matter), and a grind without much in the sense of strategy or agency just sucks the fun out of playing said game.

The point of the game, as I see it, is; Challenging PVE combat encounters; Resource management; Creative expression through building and decorating your builds; And if you partake in that side, PVP and/or cooperative gameplay. The grind is a pointless time sink. Time sinks sort of makes sense for games that charge a recurring subscription, or is otherwise so bare bones that the actual content would last only hours without the grind. That isn't this game.

[BobOnix]

the issue isnt the grind, but is the grind actually fun...id say nope, running around the cotton farms farming the same thing 1000 times is such a ball ache, and drops for seeds is like 0.1% so its not liek your farming to reduce farming iether.

and its only really such a grind because Mats needed seem so heavy.

let me not get started on the fishing...i have 20 stacks of Fat Goby and ive found maybe 5 rainbow trout or sage...running around looking for these fishing spots i detest it, but its almost neccasary for the Brute buff. which is basically necessary to complete the game with how imba some of the bosses are, Ive found more books and bonnets then actual fish at this point

I just have a feeling, that if the devs dont rebalance these mechanics im sure they'll add an ingame shop.

[Hellspawned]

Originally posted by Pandemonium:

the issue isnt the grind, but is the grind actually fun...id say nope, running around the cotton farms farming the same thing 1000 times is such a ball ache, and drops for seeds is like 0.1% so its not liek your farming to reduce farming iether.

and its only really such a grind because Mats needed seem so heavy.

let me not get started on the fishing...i have 20 stacks of Fat Goby and ive found maybe 5 rainbow trout or sage...running around looking for these fishing spots i detest it, but its almost neccasary for the Brute buff. which is basically necessary to complete the game with how imba some of the bosses are, Ive found more books and bonnets then actual fish at this point

I just have a feeling, that if the devs dont rebalance these mechanics im sure they'll add an ingame shop.

Considering that you have access to console commands - Among them ones to spawn in items - that'd be rather pointless, wouldn't it? It would be like adding a shop selling diamonds to Minecraft.

No, I think this is growing pains - The game hasn't been thoroughly tested, especially not the later parts. It makes sense, as they would've been the bits developed last. I'm sure they're hard at work tweaking and balancing the game, pretty much as we speak.