Boss scaling issue

[KruxSmash]

I love the game, the majority of the mechanics and interactions are really well done. The few things I have major issues with (PvE only) are boss scaling and area denial abilities. I understand that the more people who engage with a boss should scale difficulty. Increase in health and whatnot is fine. The thing that's not fine is the mechanic and ability scaling.

What do I mean by this? if a boss summons 3 minions for 1 player, it then doubles to 6, then to 9, etc etc. The same issue with Area denial abilities (Napalm, poison, other ground effects that stay on the ground) double. This doesn't work when the ground space is limited and bosses leash pretty quickly.

I also have a major issue with the combat healing, nerfing your max hp while in combat, but that's for another time. Again, I love the game, but some of the boss mechanics need major tweaks in terms of scaling.

[KruxSmash]

Originally posted by Shazzamon:

l2dodge

Ignoring the fact you're trolling, the 8 second dodge is a long cooldown, even with blocks / counters.

[alden.monzon]

Do the abilities of the bosses scale with the number of players? From what I've seen the area coverage of their abilities remain the same. They are just tanky with multiple players.

[KruxSmash]

Originally posted by alden.monzon:

Do the abilities of the bosses scale with the number of players? From what I've seen the area coverage of their abilities remain the same. They are just tanky with multiple players.

The abilities don't grow in size, but some abilities will be used more often. Say a boss drops 1 napalm if you solo it, if 2 people fight it's 2 napalm, 3 for 3, etc etc. I don't know the caps of abilities, but the bosses scale to how many people are around them, so you can't just make the boss fight easier by throwing more people at it.

[Shazza]

Originally posted by Krux:

Originally posted by Shazzamon:

l2dodge

Ignoring the fact you're trolling, the 8 second dodge is a long cooldown, even with blocks / counters.

Advice ain't trolling, dodging isn't just using your travel ability. *There's also the Veil of Chaos power for a double-dash for mid-dash adjustments.

Bosses have tracking and lock-in for animations. Tristan for example has telegraphs for his two sword swipes, which can easily be WASD'd backwards (blue/sideswipe) or to the side (orange/overhead).

It really is just learning patterns and adapting your strategy. Having more people just trivialises bosses because you're absolutely melting their health before they can get too many of their mechanics off.

[Kalizaar]

Has this issue been looked at yet by the devs? I'm all for dynamic scaling in multiplayer, but a system that leads to a standard operating procedure of everyone avoiding a boss while one person solos it should say something.

Wife and I love this game, except that we can't fight bosses together. Devs, please adjust the amount of scaling bosses get! OP is right on the money. Long dodge cooldowns and limited fighting space does not mix with having double the boss ability spam.

Health and damage increases are fine (assuming it's not some absurd amount). If a boss summons 3 things while solo, don't have them summon 6 when there's 2 people. How about only 4 for instance? 3 people, maybe then go up to 5 or 6. Something along those lines.

Boss fights are fun when solo. Horrible with multiplayer.

[ling.speed]

Originally posted by Kalizaar:

Wife and I love this game, except that we can't fight bosses together.

I find bosses easier duo, even together with a first timer to the game.

Also if you play offline / PvE games like this are about overcoming challenges. Balance might be borked a bit, but if you "have to" solo a boss its the same as if you cheesed it with a glitch or something. It's about the road not destination kind of thing.

Long dodge cooldowns and limited fighting space does not mix with having double the boss ability spam.

Dont try to double range the boss. Have one person run around him close. He will change his attack patterns giving more room to breathe. Also almost all boss skills are dodgable by just walking. And besides there is enough dodge skills that you can get out or enemy attack every 1.5-2s i'd not say thats a long dodge cooldown.

[theworld]

Originally posted by Krux:

if a boss summons 3 minions for 1 player, it then doubles to 6, then to 9, etc etc.

If you are not idiots then you all dump them on just 1 player by losing aggro with Slashers E. The bait player then just runs around with 2 counter type skills while the rest focus on the boss. Styx is super easy with 2+ players even with terrible Gear.

The same issue with Area denial abilities (Napalm, poison, other ground effects that stay on the ground) double. This doesn't work when the ground space is limited and bosses leash pretty quickly.

Again, the issue is not using your head for more than just eating. Purgatory scales better with more players. Sanguine Coil is also much better with >1 player.

I have personally seen people speedrun Solarus on Twitch in 6 hours at 70 Gear Score on x2 loot settings on a duo server, so if anything bosses need to be scaled to be much harder for multiple players.

[ZERO]

I did run around with a small party on a PVE server and defeat some bosses. as someone who has defeated all the bosses solo twice now on 2 different runs. I honestly felt the co-op battles where easier.

[EthanT]

COOP bosses is more fun, but solo is easier.

Ive done them all twice. I found solo easier but had more fun when I did them again with my wife.

[Galroche]

worst part is that some of them scale of summon too not only real player, when fighting the big guy in the cave that summon ghost wolf/bear (one of the 3 last boss) i was suprised to have him summon triple the ghost due to my 2 skeleton summoned by the shield spell.

[Pay Child Suport]

i have an issue with a lot of bosses to list them all. but on top of my head

terrorclaw ogre (the one in frozen cave). his ice wave attack when his hp reaches around 60%. i know the intended way to avoid it is to hide behind one of the ice pillars that fell down, but man that hitbox. unless I have depth perception problems, that hitbox does NOT make sense whatsoever.

[ling.speed]

Originally posted by Tentacle Grape:

i have an issue with a lot of bosses to list them all. but on top of my head

terrorclaw ogre (the one in frozen cave). his ice wave attack when his hp reaches around 60%. i know the intended way to avoid it is to hide behind one of the ice pillars that fell down, but man that hitbox. unless I have depth perception problems, that hitbox does NOT make sense whatsoever.

If you notice his attack early enough (blue swirlies) and have long range tp (chaos/ or undead) its pretty easy to dodge completely. Not an optimal solution but hey whatever works. Slashers can cancel the attack can completely, sword can dodge it completely. If you mainly attack in melee illusion TP can do some magic too. Or you can even tank it with blood shield (the main problem is not the freeze but first hit).

[ArgarothB]

Originally posted by ling.speed:

Originally posted by Kalizaar:

Wife and I love this game, except that we can't fight bosses together.

I find bosses easier duo, even together with a first timer to the game.

Also if you play offline / PvE games like this are about overcoming challenges. Balance might be borked a bit, but if you "have to" solo a boss its the same as if you cheesed it with a glitch or something. It's about the road not destination kind of thing.

Long dodge cooldowns and limited fighting space does not mix with having double the boss ability spam.

Dont try to double range the boss. Have one person run around him close. He will change his attack patterns giving more room to breathe. Also almost all boss skills are dodgable by just walking. And besides there is enough dodge skills that you can get out or enemy attack every 1.5-2s i'd not say thats a long dodge cooldown.

In gloomrot this became worse, limited spaces and undodgeable abilities

[Adamerus522]

[/quote]I find bosses easier duo, even together with a first timer to the game. [/quote]

Yeah, soloing the harpy and frog bosses are a killer for me. I've had to move past them.

[@xaker89]

Guys, this topic is from 2022...