How P2W is this? Be honest

[Yeldo]

I'm looking at the game and idk, i know it has pvp and pve, and pvp is balanced but isnt PvE broken by P2W mechanics?

[goddam minilamb]

When you understand the shop, the game it really isn't p2w at all, it's just bait for ♥♥♥♥♥♥ players / casual dads / whales that dont want to put in any effort. Its p2wait for more content.

[Baskerville]

There is an increase with cash shop items but it is not that big of a deal.
Especially since you can get most of the stuff you need by playing a lot (really takes some time)

It is less "P2W" and more "P4C" (Pay for convinience)

[TheDurante]

Originally posted by Yeldo:

I'm looking at the game and idk, i know it has pvp and pve, and pvp is balanced but isnt PvE broken by P2W mechanics?

U would have to explain what ya mean by broken pve, since most stuff you can do solo except raids but even there I dont know what you mean by broken pve.

Also there is no stuff in cash shop that can be considered really game broker (idk about russian version) its like DogBaskerville said more pay for convinience.

If you have in mind stuff type of WoW tokens and how it unbalanced game, then no.

[Schaydah]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWajiTYyiwalcfbJO-bDVpQ Take a time an watch some Videos from this Dude. Maybe it helped you.

[Chays]

is extremly pay to win, you can buy with real money ingame currency, with this ingame currency you can buy stuff from auctionsouse or enchants to upgrade your gear.

and tousend of other things that increase your power , like pets and outfits with stats, sub and and and. ( and of course only the just for fun pvp modus is balanced.... in guild vs guild and on islands are your gear ready and only there are relevant rewards and rankings. )

do not listen the fan boy trolls that say this is not p2w... do better read a lot and you will see it easy.

[Jaffa]

0% p2w

[Daxidol]

Overwhelmingly, the most P2W aspect of the game is the ability to trade the Premium currency for Gold to other players. When KR/RU/JP players and any other group talk about the P2W in LA, that's what they're talking about.

While the Gold exchange is indeed "P2W", it's equally as P2W as many other western MMOs, including the 'big' ones, like WoW, that let you do the exact same thing (exchange real world money for in game currency).

You can use the Gold to buy whatever, from carries to upgrade materials. Gold is the most 'important' currency.

Most Gold is generated initially from weekly limited content, but the limits are mostly tied to the character, allowing all but the most dedicated to functionally have no cap to how much Gold they can obtain without spending anything (there's a hard cap of 18 slots on an account and very people will cap on 18 characters each week).

-----

There's various upgrade mechanics in the game (none are tied exclusively to real money), but people generally talk about how many times someones has upgraded their gear. Upgrading the highest tier/rarity of armor to the hard cap of +25 on all slots will give you an ilvl of 1575 currently.

1575 is NOT the realistic for most, even the most rotund whales. For almost everyone, you'll never 'finish' your gear and you basically have no cap to how much you can upgrade. 1575 is also NOT needed for any content at all. PvP that matters and the most challenging PvE both equalise Gear.

For reference, 'endgame' starts at around 1340 ilvl, in Korea there's 997k characters 1340+, but only 393 at the hardcap of 1575. That's 1/2500 characters at 'endgame' who are at the current cap. A better comparison though might be full +15 T3 legendary, 1415 ilvl and lets you do basically all content, there's 402.4k characters at 1415+, making only around 1/1000 characters in that position be at the cap.

-----

Though if you perhaps instead want a comparison of what that actually means in terms of damage potential:

T3 +15 (1415 ilvl) is pretty easy to get to, even for very casual players. Frankly, the difference between that and a whale/sweat at +25 is pretty huge. However, comparing the baseline/casual player to the biggest sweats/whales isn't much of a comparison. As I pointed out before, even most whales wont get to +25 all.

A better comparison in my opinion would be comparing a +20-+22 player with a +21-23 weapon to a +25 whale. That's still not a comparison between the biggest sweats and the fattest whales, but it's a better comparison. In that instance, assuming everything else is the same, like 20% weapon attack, it's not a direct multiplier though, so like a 10% damage difference?

For reference, on KR, rank 1000 Summoner has a +24 weapon with 3x +22 and 2x +21 (1520 ilvl). I can't speak to rank 1000 Summoner specifically, but I can say with certainty that there's many Summoners who aren't whales in that top 1000 of just the Summoners.

-----

The conclusion people should likely take is that very casual players wont compete with dedicated players in terms of damage and that people have the potential to spend to compete with dedicated players, but that's true for basically any MMO.

[a]

Oh hey this topic again for the thousandth time.

[GuNNuP]

"Basically true in any mmo" sad

[TitanOfTime]

Originally posted by Daxidol:

Overwhelmingly, the most P2W aspect of the game is the ability to trade the Premium currency for Gold to other players. When KR/RU/JP players and any other group talk about the P2W in LA, that's what they're talking about.

While the Gold exchange is indeed "P2W", it's equally as P2W as many other western MMOs, including the 'big' ones, like WoW, that let you do the exact same thing (exchange real world money for in game currency).

You can use the Gold to buy whatever, from carries to upgrade materials. Gold is the most 'important' currency.

Most Gold is generated initially from weekly limited content, but the limits are mostly tied to the character, allowing all but the most dedicated to functionally have no cap to how much Gold they can obtain without spending anything (there's a hard cap of 18 slots on an account and very people will cap on 18 characters each week).

-----

There's various upgrade mechanics in the game (none are tied exclusively to real money), but people generally talk about how many times someones has upgraded their gear. Upgrading the highest tier/rarity of armor to the hard cap of +25 on all slots will give you an ilvl of 1575 currently.

1575 is NOT the realistic for most, even the most rotund whales. For almost everyone, you'll never 'finish' your gear and you basically have no cap to how much you can upgrade. 1575 is also NOT needed for any content at all. PvP that matters and the most challenging PvE both equalise Gear.

For reference, 'endgame' starts at around 1340 ilvl, in Korea there's 997k characters 1340+, but only 393 at the hardcap of 1575. That's 1/2500 characters at 'endgame' who are at the current cap. A better comparison though might be full +15 T3 legendary, 1415 ilvl and lets you do basically all content, there's 402.4k characters at 1415+, making only around 1/1000 characters in that position be at the cap.

-----

Though if you perhaps instead want a comparison of what that actually means in terms of damage potential:

T3 +15 (1415 ilvl) is pretty easy to get to, even for very casual players. Frankly, the difference between that and a whale/sweat at +25 is pretty huge. However, comparing the baseline/casual player to the biggest sweats/whales isn't much of a comparison. As I pointed out before, even most whales wont get to +25 all.

A better comparison in my opinion would be comparing a +20-+22 player with a +21-23 weapon to a +25 whale. That's still not a comparison between the biggest sweats and the fattest whales, but it's a better comparison. In that instance, assuming everything else is the same, like 20% weapon attack, it's not a direct multiplier though, so like a 10% damage difference?

For reference, on KR, rank 1000 Summoner has a +24 weapon with 3x +22 and 2x +21 (1520 ilvl). I can't speak to rank 1000 Summoner specifically, but I can say with certainty that there's many Summoners who aren't whales in that top 1000 of just the Summoners.

-----

The conclusion people should likely take is that very casual players wont compete with dedicated players in terms of damage and that people have the potential to spend to compete with dedicated players, but that's true for basically any MMO.

If others raise the bar by paying, then you can keep up only by paying as well. That's true and bad for many MMOs where the devs get greedy by selling power to their players. Many people fall for that "cheap power" that lets you get the feel of win and superiority over a non paying player.

A well balanced MMO would be something that would let you gain a maximum 5-10% advantage as a paying player over a non-paying player and then that MMO could make a lot of profit from keeping the players happy to spend money on cosmetics. In this industry it's better to have 10000 players who spend 10$ and give positive reviews, rather than having 10 players that spend 10000$ and the rest of 9990 are unhappy and give negative ratings.

I played MU Legend, which is another p2win money eating hole who died after 2 years. Played that game because of nostalgy related to Mu Online, but the game was really a money sink. I really hope Lost Ark won't need to spend money to be fun. For me fun means winning.

[a]

YOu dont need to spend money. LA has an exchange currency in which you can get crystals (or is gold I can remember) to buy cash shop items. It is not an issue.

There are youtube videos about this.

[Kal-El]

I don't understand people who complain or hate those who pay in the game....

Do you understand that you can play for free because there are people who put money into the game?

That putting money gives benefits? What do you want to play for free while the rest of us pay and be the same? xD

PvP is not pay2win.. this is the most important. What else do you want?

[a]

Originally posted by lkal_ell:

I don't understand people who complain or hate those who pay in the game....

Do you understand that you can play for free because there are people who put money into the game?

That putting money gives benefits? What do you want to play for free while the rest of us pay and be the same? xD

PvP is not pay2win.. this is the most important. What else do you want?

They just want people to be as miserable as them since they probably can't afford or dont want to put money into the game

[Daxidol]

Originally posted by TitanOfTime:

If others raise the bar by paying, then you can keep up only by paying as well. That's true and bad for many MMOs where the devs get greedy by selling power to their players. Many people fall for that "cheap power" that lets you get the feel of win and superiority over a non paying player.

While I agree, that's not true for Lost Ark, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Originally posted by TitanOfTime:

A well balanced MMO would be something that would let you gain a maximum 5-10% advantage as a paying player over a non-paying player and then that MMO could make a lot of profit from keeping the players happy to spend money on cosmetics. In this industry it's better to have 10000 players who spend 10$ and give positive reviews, rather than having 10 players that spend 10000$ and the rest of 9990 are unhappy and give negative ratings.

"A better comparison in my opinion would be comparing a +20-+22 player with a +21-23 weapon to a +25 whale. That's still not a comparison between the biggest sweats and the fattest whales, but it's a better comparison. In that instance, assuming everything else is the same, like 20% weapon attack, it's not a direct multiplier though, so like a 10% damage difference?"

That's within your suggested "5%-10%". Though worth pointing out, you don't have to pay to be even closer to a whale.

Top 1000 for only 1 class is closer than the example I used.

Originally posted by TitanOfTime:

I played MU Legend, which is another p2win money eating hole who died after 2 years. Played that game because of nostalgy related to Mu Online, but the game was really a money sink. I really hope Lost Ark won't need to spend money to be fun. For me fun means winning.

Comparing LA to MU shows either an lack of understanding of the mechanics in LA or an intentional effort to mislead people, lol. If LA was like MU I wouldn't have been playing LA for so long.

[Bimbom]

The most concerning thing to me as a Westerner is being able to use Currency to autocomplete daily quests. I understand this is the norm for Mobile games and the game economy in Asian markets.