Two cents about Regional Pricing (and associated drama)

[Helleios]

If you're unfamiliar with the concept of Regional Pricing, it is a practice of charging different prices per region(usually countries) for the same product.

Originally, it's to make product more accessible and affordable to potential customers in countries that has weaker economy, while companies can obtain larger customer base. When it came to in-app/game-purchase shops, where getting users to make that first purchase more important than ever, it starts to show more signs of a method for companies to milk more money out of wider player base.

It has become quite prevalent in mobile gaming, although recent trend for major titles has been heading towards removal of regional pricing in their cash shop purchases for reasons that will be explained later.


Here is why I believe regional pricing is nonsense for Lost Ark.


1. It lacks the logical reasoning behind it.

Consider a can of Coca-cola. It is sold at different price across the world. This is because physical products like Coca-cola are usually localized in terms of production, and since each country has different manufacturing cost(labor, rent, material, etc.) end product is sold at a different price, reflecting state of economy of individual countries. In the end, you are not really purchasing the same can of coke, as the products are localized in terms of production.

On another hand, consider a luxury bag from Louis Vuitton. It will have varying prices, but mostly due to distribution cost, VAT and government regulations, but the actual product has the same price. Most importantly, it is more expensive outside of the country it is manufactured in, as the products are NOT localized in terms of production. In this case, LV bag you buy in Japan will be the same as LV bag you purchase in Italy.

Digital products are NOT localized in terms of production. Platinum pack you buy in Turkey is the same exact platinum pack you buy in Germany.

2. Justification of regional pricing is not objectively "fair"

Regional pricing takes into the general economy of countries instead of personal wealth.

Why should person A who makes less money than person B have to pay more for the same exact product and service, just based on the country they reside in? If anything, even if they made same money, person B is wealthier than person B due to value of their money being different in their country, yet person B will pay less money for same identical product/service.

Considering the entire argument for consumer advantage of regional pricing is to provide more accessibility to consumers who are in less fortunate economic situation, this imbalance dismantles that argument completely. All that is left at that point is that it's simply a method practiced by companies to maximize revenue. This is not a bad thing, as the goal of a business to generate profit. I'm simply pointing out how flawed Regional Pricing is in general.

3. It creates an unfair marketplace

If a company sells identical product/service at different prices, given the choice, consumer will naturally purchase them at a lower price.

This brings about use of VPNs, 3rd party purchases, and RMT.

I see people saying that's "illegal" but it's not (well depends on the country)
More accurate term is against the ToS (in most cases).

Here is where the irony comes in. As I mentioned earlier, it is natural for businesses to chase after revenue and profit. As a smart consumer, it is also natural to purchase products at lowest price available.

So why is it "not right" for consumer to use 3rd party or VPN to purchase the identical product at a lower price, while it's considered only logical for companies to seek out cheaper labor and cheaper materials to maximize profit? They're both natural part of free market.

If anything, companies that seek lower cost may compromise on quality for the lower cost, but in the case of regional pricing, we're talking about EXACTLY IDENTIAL product/service. Only thing that makes this "not right" is the ToS you sign that only serves to protect the company's interests, not consumers.

We're not talking about paying more money for suit made in Italy vs Indonesia. We're talking about paying more money just because the company told you so.

4. It creates "black market"

This is the main reason why a lot of major mobile titles have been shifting away from regional pricing.

3rd party vendors take advantage of silly system like Regional Pricing. This has been done with package products but it's significantly worse with games that has in-game/app-purchases.

Matter of fact, it literally encourages RMT. You've seen how RMT has affected games that only had items/currencies that could be obtained via playing the game only. Regional Pricing only gives another method/loophole for these people to take advantage of.

Mobile games where heavy microtransactions occur, it has become noticeable that 3rd party purchases were making people who contributed nothing to the product richer, and to protect their interest, major games have been stepping away from regional pricing, because there is no way to effectively stop these activities.

If this is happening in mobile games that do not allow in-game trading, imagine how much worse it is in terms of effects on economy and how much more difficult it is to track down these acts.

5. Lost Ark is a Free To Play Online MMORPG with shared economy

Game is 100% Free To Play. Ingame purchase is a luxury, not a must to play the game. Regional pricing provides nothing in terms of accessibility of the game.

With that being said, I would not have any issue with Regional Pricing if this was a single player game or if it did not have in-game trading. I might feel little bit envious that someone could buy things cheaper, but it wouldn't affect my personal gameplay.

But it's a COMPLETELY different when the game is a online MMORPG and difference in pricing creates higher likelihood of adversely affecting the game's economy, and easily manipulated.

If you're going to sit there and tell me that Amazon is going to have some revolutionary method to prevent and remove problems that has existed for over a decade and could not be fixed, you're beyond optimistic.

I want the game to be successful commercially but chasing after regional pricing is simply a shortsighted move that will hurt the game in the long run Amazon.
Running and servicing MMORPG is hard as it is with rampant hacks, macros, and RMT. Why increase the risk even more?

You can already see signs. Already, you have someone whining in forum that instead of paying less than 20%, they have to pay 50% for founder's pack. This is simply a preview of headache and drama to come.

[Bimbom]

WHY do people keep writing these essays no one is going to read.

[Helleios]

It's kinda funny how I see criticism about empathy. I grew up from low income household and inherited nothing, had to pay for myself, give up on higher education, served in the military and got to where I am making low six figure salary.

In the process, I have made sure to donate for causes I believe in like providing better education for inner city youth, providing basic goods to countries where people aren't even guaranteed basic human rights. This is something that I have been doing for over a decade, even when I was living off of McDonald's dollar menu and 39 cents cup ramen while working 70-80 hours a week.

What have you done to preach about empathy? It's funny how people are so quick to try to flaunt their moral high ground just by spewing out things that sounds like a "feel good" message on the surface. Same people usually have an excuse for not doing anything for others with their own money or time. I'd actually be happy if you prove me wrong.

Also, if you want me to have empathy that it's difficult for some people to afford unnecessary luxury products because their economy is bad, you are absolutely right. I have zero empathy for it. Once again, in-game purchase for a FREE TO PLAY game is a LUXURY not a RIGHT nor an ESSENTIAL.

Your argument is as ridiculous as asking for international subsidy or putting in a requirement for Gucci to sell their bags cheaper at poor countries because it's not "fair"

Main reason why I'm against Regional Pricing is that it leaves a gaping hole that poses a risk for the game's economy considering Lost Ark's cash shop model and the fact this is an MMO with shared economy, free user trading, and ability to send currencies/items via mail.

Again, why should everyone else have to bear the risk and pay for the consequences just so select few can enjoy cheaper unnecessary spending?

By the way, for those who are trying to say Amazon could take other steps to prevent abuse, what do you propose? RMT has been a problem for decades with no real solution. If anything, it has grown larger despite efforts from the industry. Types of solutions that had somewhat of a deterrent effect involved taking away ingame features like free trading, mailing attachment, etc. You're basically relying on wishful thinking that Amazon with no history and experience as a game publisher will somehow find a miracle cure that wouldn't infringe general player experience and fix this issue.

I don't know how many times it will take to get this through some people's head but
Lost Ark is a FREE TO PLAY game that requires zero in-game purchases to play the game and enjoy its content fully.
In-game purchases are simply a LUXURY purchase, not REQUIRED nor ESSENTIAL.
Stop acting like preferential treatment is a RIGHT. It's a considerate gesture and a privilege.

[Undiscovered]

Congratulations, you written this article(!) with a straight logic like flat Earth supporters.The only correct and logical part of the article was, this system is abuseable atm.

Steam has already done some work on this and will do better in the future.This is a situation that can be resolved easly by steam, because steam recommends the regional price system to publishers.Verifying whether the owner of the Steam account lives in Turkey is extremely simple.Instead of suggesting this way, I think it wouldn't make more sense to write paragraphs of nonsense under the name of economics.Also there are people who have achieved much more than you have achieved, but cannot buy this game due to the low dollar/lira parity.

No one wonders what kind of house you grew up in, or what you achieved lol.You will present me with thousands of excuses with your ridiculous narcissistic personality, but I will not answer any of them. All your answers are in this paragraph.Take it, if you don't understand, read it again and again.Regional Price is applied in many games.However, overly ambitious guys have set their sights on Lost Ark.Because they like to rule over other players with p2w.Turkish community are very crowded and they play systematically like Polishs/Rusians etc.If Turks reach p2w content with the minimum wage in their country, this will undermine the pathetic people who try to dominate other people with p2w.

The accounts sold by illegally through Eula violations can be easily identified and regional pricing can continue.But this means that Turks can be p2w if they want, and you dont like it.Right?If this problem solves like as I said, according to your mentality, Turks will not be able to buy 10 copies of this game for minimum wage anyway, don't worry.

Probably Amazon will fix this. Only the efforts of the pathetic people who try to spewing the Turkish hostility(dont be offended that was not you) that they couldn't overcome for centuries by opening meaningless topics will remain.I hope TL/Dollar parity will return to its old 0.85 state and we will not have to respond to such ridiculous personalities.


PS: Please don't try to explain your subjective nonsenses with economics again.

Edit:I already buy this game.

Edit2:Paragraph editing for people who have trouble to reading.lol

[Helleios]

Dear Undiscovered,

Please use the "enter" key once in a while. It's extremely difficult to read through the soup of words. You use the term "paragraphs" so you know what they are. Put them into practice if you want people to be actually able to read what you write. Unless, of course, you are a "narcissistic personality" who only cares about publishing your opinion rather than having it read and have an actual conversation.

Steam has already done some work on this and will do better in the future.This is a situation that can be resolved easly by steam, because steam recommends the regional price system to publishers.Verifying whether the owner of the Steam account lives in Turkey is extremely simple.

When a basis of an argument is wishful thinking like "the problem has existed for decades, still exists, and will continue to exist but they may or may not be able to handle it" isn't it pretty obvious how strong (or weak) the case is? Also, Steam does not recommend regional pricing. It's a common practice by businesses to maximize their profit by reducing difficulty of accessibility. However, it's a poorly executed system due to various reasons.

.Verifying whether the owner of the Steam account lives in Turkey is extremely simple.Instead of suggesting this way, I think it wouldn't make more sense to write paragraphs of nonsense under the name of economics.

Not sure why this has even an ounce of relevance. Main concern for regional pricing in a MMO with shared economy is that it opens an easy floodgate of market manipulation and practically invites 3rd party to come in and take advantage of the situation and ruin market economy. RMT vendors and macro shop do not care if their accounts get banned after the fact. You just simply make new accounts, which is extremely easy to do on Steam.

Also, it's funny how you criticize my points as "nonsense" when not even once you mention anything as a "sensible" correction to my point. Usually, people with some sense says counter statements, not just yell out "what you're saying is nonsense because it is"

Also there are people who have achieved much more than you have achieved, but cannot buy this game due to the low dollar/lira parity.No one wonders what kind of house you grew up in, or what you achieved lol.You will present me with thousands of excuses with your ridiculous narcissistic personality, but I will not answer any of them. All your answers are in this paragraph.

Not even sure where this is coming from. Is this in response to what I wrote about myself when people were irresponsibility flailing out character defamation? Not once did I glorify myself nor my achievements. Also, this is 21st century. If you really achieve "great things" you can make wealth anywhere in the world. Stop acting like Turkey is the only place in the world where you cannot be successful even if you tried. Yes, it's harder than some places, and yes, you're not playing in the level playing ground in comparison to other leading nations in the world. That makes it challenging, not impossible. Also, I fail to see how this is of any relevance to asking for lower price for in-game purchases of a free game.

if you don't understand, read it again and again

Do I really have to? It hurt my brain just to give it a single read through.

I'm not sure if I should ask you to do the same as you repeatedly show inability to address any of my points, write groundless claims and resort to taking things out of context then attacking my character without evidence. Also, it's really hard to read your word soup.

Regional Price is applied in many games.However, overly ambitious guys have set their sights on Lost Ark.Because they like to rule over other players with p2w.

Huh? I got the Regional Pricing is applied in many games. What does that have anything to do with "overly ambitious guys have set their sights on Lost Ark"? Also, something about wanting to "rule over other players with p2w"? Do you even know what Lost Ark is like?

All I see is desperate attempt to try to degrade legitimate concern for the game into jealousy of whale players? As someone who has been in the "whale" community, although I am nowhere close to that level, they have no problem with RMT or spending in a game. They couldn't care less that some country pays less for in-game purchase. Who do you think the main customers are for RMT vendors that take advantage of regional pricing in mobile games? Whales that spend several thousand dollars a month on the games.

Reality of the world is very different from what you think and imagine in your head.

Turkish community are very crowded and they play systematically like Polishs/Rusians etc.If Turks reach p2w content with the minimum wage in their country, this will undermine the pathetic people who try to dominate other people with p2w.

Right. That's why you see so many Turkish pro gamers dominating games. I have nothing against the country, but once again, no idea why this even came up. Also, if this is the case, why do you even care about regional pricing in a free game? Just play the game for free and "dominate" the p2w. Do you have 2 personalities battling against one another?

The accounts sold by illegally through Eula violations can be easily identified and regional pricing can continue.

No one cares about account selling. Once again, can you please read again and again to actually understand what the root of the problem is?

But this means that Turks can be p2w if they want, and you dont like it.Right?

I genuinely do not care whether Turks can be p2w if they want. I care about game economy not being manipulated and corrupted, and the players not losing game features and free market trading as a control measure, or innocent players being banned. In other words, everyone else having to bear the burden and the consequences just so one country can access UNNECESSARY spending at a cheaper price.

If this problem solves like as I said, according to your mentality, Turks will not be able to buy 10 copies of this game for minimum wage anyway, don't worry.

Huh? What is my "mentality" and why should anyone care about Turks being able to buy 10 copies of this game for minimum wage? I don't understand why you continuously try to turn this into an argument of Turkey vs the world when the reality is there are only very few people who have hostility towards Turkey.

Probably Amazon will fix this.

Fix what exactly?

Only the efforts of the pathetic people who try to spewing the Turkish hostility(dont be offended that was not you) that they couldn't overcome for centuries by opening meaningless topics will remain.

Where is this victim mentality coming from?


This is why I have no sympathy.
As I stated repeatedly, Lost Ark is a Free to Play game that does not require any spending. If your financial situation is that bad, please use that money somewhere more meaningful to improve your situation. It will be to your benefit in the long run.

Also, where were you "social justice warriors" from Turkey when Mexico was being charged 3x your price (still almost double) even though you two have similar GDP per capita and Mexico actually has lower PPP than Turkey?

Where were you guys for Eastern European countries when they were, and still are, being charged 99.99 Euros?

Stop pretending like you have some moral high ground when the reality is none of you said anything about the issue until it affected what you had to pay. Don't act like you're fighting for some kind of justice and greater good when you're just complaining and arguing for your own personal interest. It's selfish, greedy and unsightly, especially when everyone else will suffer the consequences when the feared problem occurs after launch, which is highly probable based on history and current trajectory of how things are moving.

[Undiscovered]

I can't believe I'm even responding to personality like you.You are someone who thinks he is right by writing paragraphs only and arrogantly tries to connect it to economics.You are still trying to impose your own ideas and so fascinated by the success stories on TV and you created your own drama here.

Although you have no idea about this, you have argued very confidently that Steam does not offer regional pricing.Yes, steam offers regional pricing in low GDP countries and leaves the choice to the publishers.
Again, you mentioned another topic I guess you have no idea about it.Steam has already made it extremely difficult to change the location of the market so that this type of market shopping does not occur.In addition, the citizenship number system in South Korea can be available in countries with regional pricing and this is a ''solution''.

However, instead of telling your own success story, it makes more sense to say that you have no sympathy for others and still see yourself on top with your narcissistic personality.In addition no one expects sympathy from you. Instead of asking us why you did not seek the rights of other countiries, you ask yourself why you became a lion when it comes to our rights.We are looking for our rights and I advise them to seek theirs.Also many of the countries you mentioned are members of the European Union and they are constantly receiving help from the European Union.

Im not mentioned that it is difficult to achieve success in Turkey, but that the amount you can earn even if you are successful, but I think the influence of succes stroies continues on you.The European pizza delivery man can get the Lost Ark platinum package by working for 10 hours.An individual from Turkey who wants to buy this package at its current price has to work for 35 hours.You keep telling me about balances, but you don't know anything about balance.Before the prices were increased because of the propagandas made by people like you in the forums it could be obtained with 12 hours of work.You keep talking about balances, of course only balances for you.

I'm sorry to write the previous post from my phone, but it seems less problematic for the paragraph to look like soup, than the subjective narsistic paragraphs.

''Reality of the world is very different from what you think and imagine in your head.''

This line is clearly proves your character.It makes me sick that this word was used by your kind person about me.

You ask why we care about regional pricing. However, you previously asked me if I knew what Lost Ark was or not, implying that buying more packs would have no effect.If this issue is so unimportant, why do you care so much?Do you have 2 personalities?

Are there few people who are hostile to Turkey? Are you realy serious? I guess you haven't followed the forums in any way. There are little racists who keep telling Turks need to be stay away from European servers and have their own servers.This situation has become an opportunity for these personalities.

You're contradicting yourself too much. If igc is so trivial and you don't care so much, why are you trying to prevent it by writing paragraphs of nonsense.Maybe you should explain that.If possible, this time not explain with your non-existent economistic knowlage.Because your comparisons about local sales are the same as those of a kindergartener.

Amazon will continue their regional sales. It will also teach a lesson to these little racists who cry in vain.

Finally, the only thing that can really affect the system in the game is the gold in the packages.Those who should complain to Amazon about it are questioning why countries with low GPD or recently dropped ones are not taking advantage of it.Although countries with low regional pricing sell these packages, you are the ones who buy them.And your hypocrisy about it is nauseating.First clean yourselves and then you attack others.


I can't believe I even took so much time for you.I hope your world turns out the way you think it is.Have a nice day.

Edit:They also added a Bronze package and this package price is currently 3 dollar.I assume you understand what I mean when I say Amazon will solve this problem.I guess that's it for your perfect theories and your claiming that there is no problem to fixing.

I'm pretty sure there will be racists who will oppose the price of this package.

[ozi]

Messaggio originale di Revolution:

Turkish crybabies can just play F2P and not buy the packs. End of discussion. Amazon doesn't need your 10€ for the 100€ pack.

oh really ? so can u explain why we had regional pricing at start ? like @eren said with other services amazon provides like other apps are doing ? can u explain ?

[Undiscovered]

Messaggio originale di Revolution:

Turkish crybabies can just play F2P and not buy the packs. End of discussion. Amazon doesn't need your 10€ for the 100€ pack.

Amazon isn't doing this because of money, they doing it to expand their playerbase.Many mmos use this sales method.This is the reason why many mmo games that come out with full price later discount their prices by up to 90%.With this way, they raise more money through microtransaction.

Also your behavior racist and against to steam rules.

[outta_control]

@Undiscovered well written!

He's trying his best writing essays to convince people that RP is bad which is not true and it does not change even if he writes a book about it.
Just listing negative points completely ignoring the positive points.
Pulling Arguments to undermine his position/Opinion to justify his statements which are to a certain degree subjective.

For instance, I played more than 10+ years of MMO's and as a F2P I could control the AH to certain degree (I'm talking about starter-high endgame gear. I could craft anything and everything) there is no monopol and if people decide to spent big numbers you can't stop them anyway. Putting so much blame on Regional Pricing is not right there are many other factors. A separated AH but everyone plays on the same server could be a possible solution. Not a region-specific server. Everyone should be free to choose whom he wants to play with. I played in an international guild for many years with people around the globe.

In addition to that in most MMO's you can buy gold from 3rd Party sites and I did not see a single game who could prevent that. Even in KR people buying gold for this game.
If you’re really worried about this game then you should make a Thread about 3rd Party sites who sell Gold instead of Regional Pricing but it won't change anything anyway.
Those sites have different methods to generate gold and they will sell it.
By completely negating RP will cut down the income for any Company how is that are smart move?
Making no profit by raising the prices so high that countries who rely on RP can't buy continuously items from the shop. That's not beneficial for both sides.
How do you want to explain that to shareholders? That you have next to no or a low income in xy countries?

Moreover, if more people like to spent for a game, it's healthier why?
It's because there is more competition in-game. Devs will be able to push for more content etc. and the money directly goes straight to Amazon/SG instead of any third-party site. It's a win/win situation for everyone.

To sum it up, if it would be really so devastating as your explaining it then any mmo/games with RP and gold sellers etc. would be dust by now but that's not the case. People are still playing those games from small to big IP's to this day.

There are many MMO's which prove the opposite concerning RP. This is one of the best evidences that your wrong.

Messaggio originale di Helleios:

Where is this victim mentality coming from?


This is why I have no sympathy.
As I stated repeatedly, Lost Ark is a Free to Play game that does not require any spending. If your financial situation is that bad, please use that money somewhere more meaningful to improve your situation. It will be to your benefit in the long run.

Also, where were you "social justice warriors" from Turkey when Mexico was being charged 3x your price (still almost double) even though you two have similar GDP per capita and Mexico actually has lower PPP than Turkey?

Where were you guys for Eastern European countries when they were, and still are, being charged 99.99 Euros?

Stop pretending like you have some moral high ground when the reality is none of you said anything about the issue until it affected what you had to pay. Don't act like you're fighting for some kind of justice and greater good when you're just complaining and arguing for your own personal interest. It's selfish, greedy and unsightly, especially when everyone else will suffer the consequences when the feared problem occurs after launch, which is highly probable based on history and current trajectory of how things are moving.

In this Community and in a big Lost Ark Discord community I have seen people looking down on Turkey. Phrases like "People from Turkey should not be allowed to play Lost Ark" and similar phrases were written. Ganking up on Discord and trying to be the sophisticated/not biased guy here on steam forum does not do justice and I do not mean you by any means @Helleios but it's not like it is not existing.

You have no "sympathy" you're not very objective, aren't you?
You can't be the adviser for the People here. They decide how they want to spent their money and a company always offers an option for that. (I know you mean it in a good way but that's not realistic like do you really think anyone will listen to you and will not spent their money because you said so?)

It's just sad to witness that the community does not unite but hopefully that will change in the future. The player base could grow exponential as we speak and players experiences the game the same way as everyone around the globe. Any mmo with a large player base is insanely fun.

Instead, you guys are trying your best to split the community. How is it splitting?
You literally force certain people to watch other people in-game flexing with their stuff from the shop while they can't buy it due to RP. This is not just because they have a low income or unstable economy but jobs are paid differently depending on where you live.
There are many factors and I won't list all of them here.
RP is a part of the gaming industry for a reason.

I understand you're concerned about people who exploited the system but that's Amazon's and SG's job to find a solution and to monitor them.