The kind of Developer you want

[Mad Scientist]

So I remember the discussions back in December and some other months, many of us had more realistic suggestions in terms of the gameplay & mechanics that made sense for the type of game and even complexity/difficulty for a factory game.

In one thread I suggested

Originally posted by Mad Scientist:

It would be interesting if they had a sorter machine like many construction companies have that separates dirt, gravel and rock to different output conveyors.

We got an ore sorter!

In another thread & the CoI suggestions, people suggested Roads which reduce maintenance.
We received ground construction! To reduce maintenance and add some flair to our islands

People asked for vertical lifts/conveyors
We got them!

It's great to see a Developer listen to legitimately good ideas from various players, as well as make some things optional to do, which can make people happy if they do or don't want to play in a more complex manner, so everyone wins; us, the Dev, the people that want one playstyle, the people that want a different playstyle.

I can't wait to test Update 2 more, I'm sure many are already enjoying all of the new features, but let's give a thumbs up to a Developer that actually listens to good ideas from people, considers them, and implements them when the ideas are good even if it makes it more complex, and being it's a factory game, more complexity sometimes makes sense.

Good Guy Devs gives us and themselves a big W for Update 2.

GG.

[SirDrinksalot]

Yeah good call, cant beleive its still early access though, ive got hours in it!

[Tregon]

I wish they put more focus to finishing game and making actual endgame instead of some cosmetic minor additions. Ore sorter and stacker are prime candidates of wasted time.

I worry they do not actually have a clue on how to finish the game so there is buying time with this kind of activity. Hopefully I am wrong and they actually start finishing the game.

[MetalSpaceDust]

Sandbox games don't need an ending.

[Kaery]

Also, they have ideas towards space infrastructure through launching more rockets. I guess we would see aluminum for that as well, as it's a very important aeronautical metal.

I wouldn't say ore sorter and stacker are wasted time. Not sure about the stacker, but the sorter was heavily requested by the community. Giving the community this is not wasting time, it's engaging with your community, which is just as important as finishing your game.

[Hellenic Born]

Originally posted by SirDrinksalot:

Yeah good call, cant beleive its still early access though, ive got hours in it!

RELEASE DATE:
31 May, 2022
Early access? yeah right. My money wasnt "early access".

[Tregon]

Originally posted by Kaery:

Also, they have ideas towards space infrastructure through launching more rockets. I guess we would see aluminum for that as well, as it's a very important aeronautical metal.

I wouldn't say ore sorter and stacker are wasted time. Not sure about the stacker, but the sorter was heavily requested by the community. Giving the community this is not wasting time, it's engaging with your community, which is just as important as finishing your game.

Ore sorter was fancy coming from one guy. Developers could have dumped it to modders, they could have repurposed existing recycling plant and build sorter for those who desire it.

Instead we still have no sight of aluminium and nothing in terms of rockets. Essentially game has gained zero length over prolonged period of development. There have been environment changes which indeed are good (as in better flow physics of materials and improved maps) but on top of those efforts are used on pointless rubbish. I will add roads to the list.

Yes, people were asking for it. But it does not take game forward, it is just playing around on existing setup and adding nothing.

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by Tregon:

I wish they put more focus to finishing game and making actual endgame instead of some cosmetic minor additions. Ore sorter and stacker are prime candidates of wasted time.

I worry they do not actually have a clue on how to finish the game so there is buying time with this kind of activity. Hopefully I am wrong and they actually start finishing the game.

Although they are realistic additions to the game that people wanted, in addition to Hydrogen vehicles to give more options as the game progresses.
They're only what, 3 people? They're doing good for a very small team, and they do appear to be sticking to the previous roadmap.

Originally posted by Tregon:

Originally posted by Kaery:

Also, they have ideas towards space infrastructure through launching more rockets. I guess we would see aluminum for that as well, as it's a very important aeronautical metal.

I wouldn't say ore sorter and stacker are wasted time. Not sure about the stacker, but the sorter was heavily requested by the community. Giving the community this is not wasting time, it's engaging with your community, which is just as important as finishing your game.

Ore sorter was fancy coming from one guy. Developers could have dumped it to modders, they could have repurposed existing recycling plant and build sorter for those who desire it.

Instead we still have no sight of aluminium and nothing in terms of rockets. Essentially game has gained zero length over prolonged period of development. There have been environment changes which indeed are good (as in better flow physics of materials and improved maps) but on top of those efforts are used on pointless rubbish. I will add roads to the list.

Yes, people were asking for it. But it does not take game forward, it is just playing around on existing setup and adding nothing.

The performance updates were major though, including the loading times and performance over time with large factories. They're still working on the game, so you'll see more as it goes on. Patience doesn't hurt, look at 7DTD - that's been in EAG almost for a decade and has had huge changes over time. I don't think this Dev team would take that long to make endgame content, with the 3 people they have working on it.

The fact we get regular updates including bug/performance fixes is already a good sign.

[Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur]

Originally posted by Tregon:

I wish they put more focus to finishing game and making actual endgame instead of some cosmetic minor additions. Ore sorter and stacker are prime candidates of wasted time.

I worry they do not actually have a clue on how to finish the game so there is buying time with this kind of activity. Hopefully I am wrong and they actually start finishing the game.

sometimes it takes a while , it took factorio devs forever to think of endgame goal and rework of gameplay

i personaly idk what would be endgame as lots items who you could think of endgame are already in

unless they plan expanding satelites or flying to space but for game it is it would make no sense

what personaly id like is expanding ship/combat , and add "expeditions" (basicly sending your ship to off map like anno games) , or underwater exploration/recources

its industry game , endgame is hard to make or add as despite playing almost every industrial game , endgame in most falls flat due its hard , making more complicated recource on endgame of industrial game not quite cuts it as by now for player its "thursday" 1 more 5 more makes little diffrance

unless some brand new mechanic is added or huge curveball like factorio devs are doing

[hektor]

Originally posted by MetalSpaceDust:

Sandbox games don't need an ending.

This.

[Kaery]

Also, lets be honest here. The real meat of this update and the feature that probably took the most time was the map editor. They completely reworked the way they create maps to make it possible. Developement of it was apparently running before Update 1 dropped.

Now, personally... I can live without the map editor. And here's where we get into opinions, because if I applied the same mindset to that, I could claim the map editor was a waste of time and the huge time effort used to make it could have seen the game released by now.

I won't. Because I know that many people desperately wanted that editor. So... It's all a matter of opinion.

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by Kaery:

Also, lets be honest here. The real meat of this update and the feature that probably took the most time was the map editor. They completely reworked the way they create maps to make it possible. Developement of it was apparently running before Update 1 dropped.

Now, personally... I can live without the map editor. And here's where we get into opinions, because if I applied the same mindset to that, I could claim the map editor was a waste of time and the huge time effort used to make it could have seen the game released by now.

I won't. Because I know that many people desperately wanted that editor. So... It's all a matter of opinion.

That and it allows people to make maps, so if people feel unchallenged they can play others maps or make their own to be challenged. So it's a good long-term QOL sort of thing. Mapmakers/editors can keep many games alive long-term so people don't get bored of playing the same maps over & over.

[Tregon]

Originally posted by Mad Scientist:

Originally posted by Tregon:

I wish they put more focus to finishing game and making actual endgame instead of some cosmetic minor additions. Ore sorter and stacker are prime candidates of wasted time.

I worry they do not actually have a clue on how to finish the game so there is buying time with this kind of activity. Hopefully I am wrong and they actually start finishing the game.

Although they are realistic additions to the game that people wanted, in addition to Hydrogen vehicles to give more options as the game progresses.
They're only what, 3 people? They're doing good for a very small team, and they do appear to be sticking to the previous roadmap.

And 3 people should be extremely alert in wasting time on irrelevant things like roads, stackers and ore sorters.

That same time could be spent building new rocket technology.

Originally posted by Tregon:

Ore sorter was fancy coming from one guy. Developers could have dumped it to modders, they could have repurposed existing recycling plant and build sorter for those who desire it.

Instead we still have no sight of aluminium and nothing in terms of rockets. Essentially game has gained zero length over prolonged period of development. There have been environment changes which indeed are good (as in better flow physics of materials and improved maps) but on top of those efforts are used on pointless rubbish. I will add roads to the list.

Yes, people were asking for it. But it does not take game forward, it is just playing around on existing setup and adding nothing.

The performance updates were major though, including the loading times and performance over time with large factories. They're still working on the game, so you'll see more as it goes on. Patience doesn't hurt, look at 7DTD - that's been in EAG almost for a decade and has had huge changes over time. I don't think this Dev team would take that long to make endgame content, with the 3 people they have working on it.

The fact we get regular updates including bug/performance fixes is already a good sign.

Yes, performance is good. Map editor is good. But they have produced NOTHING to further the game as long as I recall.

3 developer team cannot afford to be so negligent. Every single manhour should be aimed to take game further, not just add irrelevant fat around existing stuff. People will make absurd amount of wishes for things they want in games, developers should understand that chasing after them is pointless. Every wish you fulfill creates three more.

Stacker, ore sorter, roads... All adds up to weeks of development time that is not bringing game closer to finish. And they can only sell the game so long, eventually they WILL have tapped entire customer base at such level that income will dry up. They have done well so far, but odds of keeping on selling at same rate are low. Possibly already it had started to run low.

And eventually money they have made starts to run out and they have wasted precious weeks on what is, to be honest, mostly irrelevant. Then comes moment they tell they have to stop development because money has run out. Maybe rush really fast "full release" update and then that's it.

Not first developers and not last ones to do that.

So, developers should focus on getting their game to finish and THEN add fat into game. That way they can afford to take time and effort to have proper finished product instead of half assed finish due to time and money shortage.

[hektor]

Bad take. Totally wrong. Look and Steam charts for player count. Is it huge? No. But it is a straight line. Very few games can do that. There is a very dedicated player base that will be around for the long run.

[Tregon]

Originally posted by Varenvel The Festive Dinosaur:

Originally posted by Tregon:

I wish they put more focus to finishing game and making actual endgame instead of some cosmetic minor additions. Ore sorter and stacker are prime candidates of wasted time.

I worry they do not actually have a clue on how to finish the game so there is buying time with this kind of activity. Hopefully I am wrong and they actually start finishing the game.

sometimes it takes a while , it took factorio devs forever to think of endgame goal and rework of gameplay

i personaly idk what would be endgame as lots items who you could think of endgame are already in

unless they plan expanding satelites or flying to space but for game it is it would make no sense

what personaly id like is expanding ship/combat , and add "expeditions" (basicly sending your ship to off map like anno games) , or underwater exploration/recources

its industry game , endgame is hard to make or add as despite playing almost every industrial game , endgame in most falls flat due its hard , making more complicated recource on endgame of industrial game not quite cuts it as by now for player its "thursday" 1 more 5 more makes little diffrance

unless some brand new mechanic is added or huge curveball like factorio devs are doing

Yes, endgame takes lots of work to do. Which is why it has to take priority over irrelevant tiny additions.
Map editor? Yes good idea. Performance, good.

Irrelevant tiny things that do not answer any major issue are wasted development time which DOES add up horribly over time.

That is why software development teams have people watching over the process to ensure limited resources are not wasted on low priority items until high priority ones are done.

Wasted hours in low importance fan service implies to me one of two situationd.
1. Team lacks that oversight and focus and ends up rushing here and there based on momentary fancy. For this speaks how they suddenly decided to develop ore separator.
2. They have no clue about how to finish the game, so they do busywork along some bigger projects like map editor because they do not know how, or where, to push game towards finish.

Both possibilities fill me with dread because over the years in business neither approach in software project has ever produced good end product.

And remember, they are operating on limited budget here. This is not backed by huge software enterprise and neither it has near endless supply of money from eager people like Star Citizen.

[Tregon]

Originally posted by hektor:

Bad take. Totally wrong. Look and Steam charts for player count. Is it huge? No. But it is a straight line. Very few games can do that. There is a very dedicated player base that will be around for the long run.

Money. Money. Money.

Player who bought game once is SINGLE transaction. Committed player base is irrelevant if game is not run on subscription.

Game with single payment model has to keep selling more and more to maintain influx of money. Staying stable means you are running out of money at some rate.