The difficulty curve thread

[DrBonifarz]

Greetings, fellow GoW players

This topic shall be a place to share and discuss how you experienced the game's difficulty curve. And with that, I don't mean rants or "git gud"s , but stories and observations about the game balance in GoW - also and especially during repeated playthroughs and NG+. GoW is 4 years old, and the difficulty scaling has been criticized from the beginning. But what do PC players say that recently enjoyed the game?

At which points of the game did things get significantly harder or easier for you?
What items, skills or tactics did you see as a game changer?
Did any of the above feel "imba", in the sense that it spoiled the game for you?
Or do you rather see balance issues in the way character levels affect combat?

I will make a start and share some of by observations below.

[DrBonifarz]

I’m a casual player with limited time, but some patience and enthusiasm. Back in the days, I played the GoW trilogy, CoO, GoS and Ascension, most also on the hardest difficulty.

For the Norse GoW, I started my journey on „give me a balanced experience“. And initially, that was exactly what I got. Directly after Alfheimr, I went for optional content, which I found reasonably challenging.

But back on the story track to the top of the mountain, all enemies felt incredibly underwhelming. In the heart of the mountain, I increased the difficulty - a much appreciated feature. Still, on "give me a challenge", all story encounters and regular boss fights seemed easier than what I had expected for normal difficulty. I never used potentially imba gear like the grip of Surtr or grip of ages. Maybe the character level scaling was just off, due to early completion of favors? But neither did I use the gauntlet of ages or any gear from Valkyries or Nieflheim to boost my level before completing the story. On the other hand, higher level realm shifts have been somewhat easy to overcome with the knock back from Blessings of the Frost.

The post story content on “give me a challenge” was awesome, though. Muspelheim gold challenges and the duel with Sigrun were a blast, and far beyond the challenge I expected on that difficulty. For me, God of War really shined here. But when I quickly tested my level nine character in NG+ on “give me god of war”, I got the impression that the start of gmgow+ is simply not designed for this. I did not test this further, though, and soon decided to start again on gmgow.

Having read some rants about spongy enemies that encourage cheesy tactics, I was pleasantly surprised by the early game experience gmgow had to offer. Sure, the Jötun market place (with the first Revenants) was tough, but it never felt unfair. Learning how to use your environment, push over enemies consistently, and to time your attacks effectively felt rewarding and fun. And sponges have not been a thing so far. Things changed quite a bit at the beginning of Alfheimr, as I got my core skills together (in this case, countering strike, shoulder barrage and guardian sweep, plus all the goodies for the boy). Regular encounters got consistently easy already. But then came the dark elf lord. I thought I knew this guy pretty well, but boy, this battle was much tougher and nicer than expected. I sucked at it, but I learned that you can counter almost every of his attacks with an executioner's cleave. This gives me hope for many more rewarding challenges.

For now, my plan is to continue the story without discovering any of the favors. That way, I hope to keep the difficulty curve consistently tough. And should I find the patience to make it to the end of the story that way, then maybe this could be a state of character progression that will make the start of gmgow+ a challenging experience.

[David Wozniak]

its cool

[The Grotesque Abomination]

Should have started on GIVE ME GOD OF WAR straight out the gate, since you’re playing GOD OF WAR.

It indeed tests the mettle of man. Consistently challenging. The beginning is an overtly punishing slog, though it becomes more strategic once the world opens up.

[acowsik]

Originally posted by The Grotesque Abomination:

Should have started on GIVE ME GOD OF WAR straight out the gate, since you’re playing GOD OF WAR.

It indeed tests the mettle of man. Consistently challenging. The beginning is an overtly punishing slog, though it becomes more strategic once the world opens up.

Thats what I did and I had never played the game before on PS4 so I went in blind. Died a lot but I wanted the challenge and the feeling of being able to 100% the game on GMGOW was just amazing.

[vfx]

Originally posted by acowsik:

Originally posted by The Grotesque Abomination:

Should have started on GIVE ME GOD OF WAR straight out the gate, since you’re playing GOD OF WAR.

It indeed tests the mettle of man. Consistently challenging. The beginning is an overtly punishing slog, though it becomes more strategic once the world opens up.

Thats what I did and I had never played the game before on PS4 so I went in blind. Died a lot but I wanted the challenge and the feeling of being able to 100% the game on GMGOW was just amazing.

That was what I did on the PS4 back in 2018. I had never played any God of War games before and jumped straight into Give Me God of War. I died so many times to the very first Draugr fight. Must have taken 45 minutes to pass the first part.

Between PS4 and PC I'm on my 4th playthrough. It's like a whole new game on PC with high framerate that the fighting is so enjoyable.

[DrBonifarz]

I think it is about time to give this a small update. Took a while, because I am busy with work most of the time =)

And for that reason, it was just fine for me to go with the hardest difficulty on a second play through, much like in the older GoW games. On the first journey, the difficulty curve may have been borked, but increasing the difficulty certainly helped with that for a smooth start. And for round two, how did that favor-free endavour turn out?

Originally posted by DrBonifarz:

For now, my plan is to continue the story without discovering any of the favors. That way, I hope to keep the difficulty curve consistently tough. And should I find the patience to make it to the end of the story that way, then maybe this could be a state of character progression that will make the start of gmgow+ a challenging experience.

Well, it kept the difficulty somewhat steady, with certain highlights, like the troll in the mountain with his fiery companions. Whew, that was fun indeed. Some fights, though, felt incredibly easy, like the trolls in Tyr's vault and in the gauntlet of the Jötunheimr Tower - bonk, bonk, gone.. seriously? Troll does not equal troll, aye.

Staying away from any sorts of favors felt like a good idea to avoid overly powerful items, like any of the goodies from Muspelheim, Niefelheim or our winged Valkyrie friends. Unworthy? Keep your secrets. However, it also meant that the Hudra brothers would not even bother to work with materials from travelers or ancients. So, I have been stuck with armor below level six, with room for seven rather modest enchantmants. Still, the journey never felt unfair. Overall, I saw it as an enjoyable challenge, with some truly effortless bits, though.

After I finished the story, I went to collect a bunch of artifacts and treasure, so I could finally give GmGoW+ a try without discovering any favors first. Level 9 Kratos has torn the baddies at the start to pieces before I could even realize they had various fire abilities. It felt disappointingly trivial. And now, did it get more interesting for whimpy level 6 Kratos with his underwhelming gear? Oh hell, yeah! I just went through the prologue until I faced the stranger, and those draugr fights were a blast - quite literally, you could say. Every single opponent could one shot me, except for this useless inflated troll - all right, no more troll puns. But keeping all draugr under control was much a bigger challenge than expected. Totally loved those first encounters so far. Now I am curious, if there will soon be a turning point where stronger gear will make things much easier again. But one thing is certain, it will take a long time before I get a chance to upgrade my axe and blades - which should keep things interesting.

[acowsik]

Considering that this game has RPG elements to it, I have to say it that it is a key mechanic in terms of getting your upgrades... the more you explore and do side quests at the earliest possible instance, the sooner you are able to get better items and gear to use.

Just sticking to the main story alone is not enough as all the good items are obtained only when you take time to explore and do other things. Having played games like Horizon Zero Dawn or Tomb Raider where unlocking skills and gear at an earlier point helps a lot, I didnt see that any different from this game.

If you are playing on GMGOW difficulty, you need buffs ASAP else you are not going to get very far.

[Maniac]

I got the game on console, and i hated it because the lowest difficulty is way too easy while one higher is way too hard.
I wonder if its better on PC or if it can be modded to be better.

[DrBonifarz]

Originally posted by acowsik:

it is a key mechanic in terms of getting your upgrades [...] Just sticking to the main story alone is not enough

Yeah, that's how it should be, if the difficulty scaling was well balanced against character progression. But when you look back at the point where you went into NG+, how did the difficulty feel? I assume you first completed the post story content and then went into gmGoW+ with a fully developed character. Was the start of NG+ an overall balanced experience, or did it feel too easy?

Originally posted by acowsik:

If you are playing on GMGOW difficulty, you need buffs ASAP else you are not going to get very far.

Do you refer to gmGoW+ or regular gmGoW? Because the favor-less run on gmGoW felt quite fair to me. Sure, you need the post-story upgrades to succeed in the post-story challenges, but that was not the point. When I look back at the content of that Journey, clearly the most difficult part was the market place with the infamous daugr pit and that punishing first line up of revenants and heavy daugr. Of all the following story content, only few encounters were difficult, and most felt like a reasonably balanced challenge.

Now back to gmGoW+, I expect that the daugr pit will again be the most difficult challenge for quite a while. That's the point I'm facing right now, and it is awesome! Because there are so many ways to face this overwhelming and ever changing scenario, while the enemies are really hard to control when you are under-geared. But slowly, I begin to regret the fact that I only brought one upgraded talisman with me. This encounter is so hectic and chaotic that I barely ever manage to trigger a realm shift, so Kvasir's is quite useless for slow old me. But I had more fun so far than in any other part of the game I have seen so far :D

[DrBonifarz]

Originally posted by Maniac:

I got the game on console, and i hated it because the lowest difficulty is way too easy while one higher is way too hard.
I wonder if its better on PC or if it can be modded to be better.

An interesting question would be: What rules or aspects would you change when designing such a mod? I suspect that the main reason for the rough start are the character level rules. When Kratos has (sub-) level one gear, the penalties against higher level enemies are too rough, even if they appear just one or two levels above you. Later on in the game, facing enemies that are a few levels above you did not feel quite as punishing.

[acowsik]

I did my NG and NG+ run on GMGOW only and never played a lower difficulty at all. On GMGOW the initial portion of the game is really rough as you dont have the skills and the enemies are very spongy.

When I finished NG, I had 100% game completion and every item in the game fully maxed out so my NG+ run on GMGOW+ was relatively stress free and I had upgraded gear at my disposal to handle it.

The only thing in GMGOW+ which really tests you is the Valkyries.. they are on a different level on GMGOW+ compared to even GMGOW.

[DrBonifarz]

Relatively stress free? I see. That's the kind of boring I am trying to avoid, and daugr pit at level six was a really tough challenge, loved it. Maybe you should once give it a try :)

Originally posted by DrBonifarz:

... it will take a long time before I get a chance to upgrade my axe and blades - which should keep things interesting.

Nope, turns out you still get a frozen flame in NG+ when you meet Brok. From there, things seem to get a lot easier, mainly due to the phantastic perk on the Cod of War bracers. Well, let's see how this will go.

[acowsik]

Originally posted by DrBonifarz:

Relatively stress free? I see. That's the kind of boring I am trying to avoid, and daugr pit at level six was a really tough challenge, loved it. Maybe you should once give it a try :)

Originally posted by DrBonifarz:

... it will take a long time before I get a chance to upgrade my axe and blades - which should keep things interesting.

Nope, turns out you still get a frozen flame in NG+ when you meet Brok. From there, things seem to get a lot easier, mainly due to the phantastic perk on the Cod of War bracers. Well, let's see how this will go.

The draugr pit on GMGOW NG was hell... I didnt need a repeat on NG+... used my runics and cleared out the place in seconds

[[Operator] Domsch]

My only gripe with the difficulty is that damn narrow FoV!!! I want to see what´s going on around me, and not having the camera focused on Kratos muscles!!

[Peelsepuuppi]

Difficulty is badly designed. Game just isn't challenging on anything but GMGOW. but the start of GMGOW is absolutely miserable. Enemies are spongy as hell fights take too long and the combat is boring because you have almost no tools.

On the other hand starting GMGOW on NG+ makes the mode too easy.

There is no well balanced difficulty in this game. The curve on GMGOW is absolutely jarring. Where I have an absolutely blast playing Ninja Gaiden I on Master Ninja or Devil May Cry on Dante must Die i'm not having very much fun with GMGOW.

Give Me A challenge feels like a normal mode for your typical action game which is not engaging enough. I think the game needs an in between setting for Give Me A Challenge and Give Me God of War where enemies aren't as spongy at the start, but then settles down close to GMGOW difficulty later on. That will give a smoother more sensible difficulty curve.