Problems with the animal system.

[JazzRadio]

Greetings.

I've put several hours into the base game and I'm back with the update.

I've played for a couple of hours, but I always encounter a bottleneck in the final phase.

I feel like I can't do anything, I don't understand what the game wants me to do.

Am I supposed to wait for more random animals to appear? At a certain point, have I already lost the game because it's impossible for me to progress? How long do I have to wait to know that I need to restart the mission?

Furthermore, the system for moving animals doesn't quite work. I get the impression that in the end, with the probe, the animals do not move from their habitat where they appeared, and I get the impression that they ignore the bridges.

Otherwise I have no problem, but this system has made me stop playing the game.

I will be attentive to future updates.

[hyphenza]

Thank you for the feedback.

If you prefer the previous animal system, we've set up a way for anyone to play the version of the game before this update.
Right click Terra Nil in your Steam library
Properties...
Betas
Beta Participation - select "v1.0.4 - Roll back to version 1.0.4"

Please note that save files may break when switching back and forth between branches. Also, while you are on this branch, you won't receive new updates to the game unless you switch back to the Default branch by selecting "None" in the dropdown menu from step 4.

[Guregori]

I think it needs more clarity.
What I think it does is kinda sorta what observatory did, but automatically. Not really sure of that, though.
I think they spawn in places that meet their needs on adequate level. They do seem to travel, but nudging them with probes seems very fiddly. I can't really predict results of using one.

Territory seems to matter (it did previously), so they may not spawn if you have suitable places too close to each other.

For now it's only a problem on highest difficulty, because quotas are quite high on that.

At the very least I think that guide should show the tiles that given animal needs, maybe other info too (if important).

I like the idea behind this change, but I hope it can be fine tuned.

[general.catallion]

there definitely is a bit of friction with the final phase and trying to satisfy the animals, i like that they can come immediately so you can start on making the perfect environment for them while achieving your phase 2 goals, but some of them are very finicky, and trying to get the exact needs while balancing all the other animals needs can become annoying, especially since you don't know exactly what they want, i find spamming animal bridges can help alot on maps with them, since it lets them cross rivers and get up/down cliffs, personally, i think the hawk and whale might need to be tweaked cause i i found it hard to make even a single one like their environment.

[tamtitam]

The animals appear when you have the right conditions. It shouldn't take long. If all other animal groups are happy, it's probably space. Or the conditions are so wrong that no single group of the species appeared (i.e. no polar bears because it's far too hot).

[moodybug]

Related to the new animal system - I find that once I make it to that stage of restoration, my game gets super laggy. I'm playing on the same setup I got 100% completion on the original game. Is anyone else having this same problem? Maybe the new system is stretching the processing power too much? (I'm not very tech/spec minded so excuse the ignorance)

Love the game and was excited about the update. Hopefully some of the bugs get worked out soon. Cheers!

[Blodo]

My feedback on the animal system if the dev is interested (thank you for your excellent game):

I really like the animal system, and I think it only needs some minor improvements.

1. Not knowing in advance what kind of requirements the animals will have makes it difficult to plan for how to lay out the various biomes. Perhaps adding animal needs to the encyclopedia so we can browse it at any time will help here?
2. Animal areas are a bit difficult to move when lots of animal groups of the same type are adjacent. Perhaps the sonic boom should also move adjacent animal group areas when placed if there is no space for the affected animals? This is a more difficult calculation, but will help with moving groups of animals in crowded areas.
3. Having some feedback on what is needed for more animals to arrive would be good also. Right now its a bit opaque.

I have gotten the Fauna Utopia achievement now, so it is definitely possible to keep max animals happy with some micromanagement. It just required a bunch of trial and error to figure out that the game could communicate a bit better. Moving animal groups is a bit finicky, and that's it.

[Tanelorn]

I really like the new system, I especially like that the animals try to adjust their range to meet the ideal conditions. But it is very frustrating near the end to fine tune areas to meet the animal's ideal needs, and shifting animal ranges with the repellent device is very frustrating. As the repellant affects all animals, you often end up pushing well placed animals out of ideal areas also. I played the sunken city and because we can't put down animal bridges, it gets VERY frustrating.

In my opinion we need some AI improvements including more aggressive animal migration AI. I would also change the repellent to animal-specific bait or repellent, to help with the collateral damage.

And while we're on the topic of improvement, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE about the lack of information on animal needs and habitat composition during the habitat building stage. In a new game, we don't even know what animals we will encounter and what they need until after we place down the habitats and are in later stages. We need all that info in the beginning!!! The final stage is far too late for learning about the specifics of animal needs and where the ideal combinations are on your map.

[Tanelorn]

Originally posted by Blodo:

1. Not knowing in advance what kind of requirements the animals will have makes it difficult to plan for how to lay out the various biomes. Perhaps adding animal needs to the encyclopedia so we can browse it at any time will help here?
2. Animal areas are a bit difficult to move when lots of animal groups of the same type are adjacent. Perhaps the sonic boom should also move adjacent animal group areas when placed if there is no space for the affected animals? This is a more difficult calculation, but will help with moving groups of animals in crowded areas.
3. Having some feedback on what is needed for more animals to arrive would be good also. Right now its a bit opaque.

Well said and this is a big deal. I typed out my comments before reading yours and I agree completely.

[arnaud_defrance]

I redid the first map after bouncing off the game a long time ago after 2-3 maps.

I got to the animals in the first map, but I am hopelessly confused. I just don't understand the animal part. I don't get what their "bonus an ideal happiness" does either, or how driving away animal with the sonic pulser is supposed to help.

It's a mess.

[Cross]

I feel that the finicky end stage of getting all animals happy is a complete anitclimax to the accomplishment of restoring the natural environment. I've packed up all my stuff, the world is back to being green and bountiful, and then I am smacked in the head with a stop sign of fine tuning the exact needs of a bunch of random animals. It kills the pacing of the game and robs victory of gratification for me.

[Tanelorn]

Originally posted by Cross:

I feel that the finicky end stage of getting all animals happy is a complete anitclimax to the accomplishment of restoring the natural environment. I've packed up all my stuff, the world is back to being green and bountiful, and then I am smacked in the head with a stop sign of fine tuning the exact needs of a bunch of random animals. It kills the pacing of the game and robs victory of gratification for me.

Couldn't have said it better...

[Maehlice]

I don't think it's a mess, but it definitely needs some work.

I just entered the Reclamation phase on the Temperate Abandoned Quarry. I need 12 animal species to be Happy, but there are only 11 even on the map!

Like, what!?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3278150762

I know as I begin improving the existing conditions, more species will appear, but it would be super nice to have a bit more clear and apparent direction.

IMO:

• Wildlife Bridge should be a Tier 2 building.
  
• Each of the "needs" bars should also show a corresponding number (like how temperature does).
  
• Once Phase 3 (Reclamation) begins, all potential species should appear in the animals list --- perhaps with a new grey exclamation(!) or question(?) icon.
  
• OR - only an "adequate" range should be necessary to clear the stage. Save "Happy" for an achievement or the 100-percenters.

[Adeon Hawkwood]

My experience is that by the time I completed phase 2 I generally have enough animals already. Sometimes I have to add a few bridges, tweak some things or wait a few minutes but it's pretty minor.

The only major one I had issues with is the Subpolar Region, if you want 100% completion there you have to make sure to get the wolves happy before you drop the temperature for the polar bears and the snow since dropping the temperature freezes the river which makes the wolves less happy.

[cyanobot]

I absolutely love the new animal system, but I agree it needs a few creases ironing out.

I do like that the animals feel like animals, they don't always make optimal choices, they need some wrangling sometimes. I wouldn't want them to lose that organic feeling, and the awkwardness is part of the charm.

But this is also a (sometimes reasonably tricky!) strategy game and it can get frustrating when it just doesn't seem to be possible to progress. Most of the time adding bridges and prodding them around with the noise orb works pretty well, at least for me, but there are a number of situations you can't solve that way.

It would be good to have a feature to forcibly relocate or at least remove animals that are stuck in suboptimal locations where they will never be happy -- for instance turtles that have decided to live in a tiny lagoon instead of the big one next door. They never get unhappy enough to leave, but the lagoon will never be any bigger. They can't be moved with the sonic device because they can't cross land. It would be good to have the option to transplant them or at least kick them out in order to have a better chance at more turtles in a more appropriately sized lagoon.

Further, it's very opaque what the criteria for animals arriving are. Sometimes you just don't get all species on a map, which is frustrating. I'm also trying to get the 20 happy animals achievement and my current map is stuck at 19 perfectly happy animals, and I have no idea how I'd get more to arrive. There are several empty areas that would be suitable territory for several different species, but only 19 want to exist.

Either more clarity on how animal spawning works so that we could work towards getting more to arrive, or some mechanism of calling more to the map, would be much appreciated.

[Tanelorn]

Originally posted by Maehlice:

I don't think it's a mess, but it definitely needs some work.
I just entered the Reclamation phase on the Temperate Abandoned Quarry. I need 12 animal species to be Happy, but there are only 11 even on the map!
Like, what!?

My guess is that there aren't 12 areas on the map that meet the minimum requirements for the animals. Animals of the same species can't overlap territories. So you can definitely have a map that can't support enough animals.