Sal's Bar rant

[Exterminator class of 1999]

Love the game. Dev did an amazing job. But this one part really pissed me off.

You get to Sal's Bar and -because the area is so large- you're maybe not paying 100% attention that the bar is right there because you're expecting enemies to spawn in.

So okay, I spent like 5 minutes looking for Sal's Bar until I paid more attention. Egg on my face.

Then, I spent another 10 minutes trying to figure out how to proceed further. You have to shoot this electrical box by the laser fence thing.

Okay...

1: why not put the freaking electrical box at EYE LEVEL. Why almost hide it?

2: this is pure absolute boredom. You waste time trying to figure out where to go and then you think "Maybe I missed something? The dev put a lever on the opposite wall to open it so you're not trapped there. Maybe I have to backtrack?" And that wastes time. And then, Sals' Bar isn't on your map so if you do backtrack it's very easy to get lost.

3: as if that wasn't enough. Frustrate the player in trying to figure out where to go. The dev then insists you must go back in that truck, drag a barrel like you're freaking DSP playing Black Mesa, and then hit the fan and finally you can proceed.

This whole section needs to be tweaked. It doesn't need a complete overhaul. My suggestions:

1: Sal's Bar should appear on your map when you first discover it.

2: PUT THE FREAKING ELECTRICAL BOX AT EYE LEVEL. There are no enemy encounters. There's no secrets. No reason to hide it.

3: Make the fan at eye level so you can just jump up and proceed with the freaking game. No reason whatsoever to force you to waste another minute with a tedious task. Or just put an indestructible box right there to make it an even easier fix.

/end rant.

Otherwise. Masterpiece of a game. Best boomer shooter since Dusk. Only other issues I noticed:

First boss got stuck behind the sign and I headshotted him with the pistol. I think that area needs a little more cover just IMHO.

One of those flying guys got stuck on level geometry once.

That's it.

Great game.

[Ch33zyDischarg3]

I just went through this. It's so weird how so many design decisions are so good and so many are just awful.

[Cahalith]

I haven't had the same experience, but I do wonder if the developers plan to signpost some of the intended progression later, since the narrative and radio chatter are still to be implemented right now. I think you could easily remedy some of this confusion by having Sal go "I see you've reached the bar, you can get in through the back" or something.

[The Face]

Oh boy, we may need to break out the yellow paint on things that newer games use D:

/s :P

[GadenKerensky]

Originally posted by The Face:

Oh boy, we may need to break out the yellow paint on things that newer games use D:

/s :P

Did you forget the level that already has yellow paint?

[Exterminator class of 1999]

Originally posted by Cahalith:

I haven't had the same experience, but I do wonder if the developers plan to signpost some of the intended progression later, since the narrative and radio chatter are still to be implemented right now. I think you could easily remedy some of this confusion by having Sal go "I see you've reached the bar, you can get in through the back" or something.

There's no reason to do that. Just set the damn electrical box at eye level. I don't need some A.I. voice to tell me "Hey, look up at that corner." It's pointless.

[Chip Lasagn]

I ran into the exact same problem.

I honestly think the easiest solution would be to take a page out of HROT's book and have an electrical box you need to break early early on in a tutorial-like segment, with a text prompt that says "You may sometimes need to destroy electrical boxes to proceed - keep your eyes open around laser doors!"

Boom. We'd get to Sal's, see the laser door and think "ah, one of these. I'll look for the electrical box before I start backtracking"

This segment alone alomst made me stop playing, but I'm still jamming it now that I'm past this section.

I really do like the game, but dang, that section was a fun-suck.

[Nexxtic]

1: Sal's Bar should appear on your map when you first discover it

There is a gigantic building with 2 big flashy neon signs. The right side even flickers to draw attention towards the laser grid. The words "Sals Bar" are printed on screen when you enter the level with this being the only reachable building on screen.

An icon is not needed.

2: PUT THE FREAKING ELECTRICAL BOX AT EYE LEVEL. There are no enemy encounters. There's no secrets. No reason to hide it

Junction Boxes are always close to their respective laser fields. There is no need to ever search far and wide.

[Nexxtic]

Originally posted by Chip Lasagn:

I ran into the exact same problem.

I honestly think the easiest solution would be to take a page out of HROT's book and have an electrical box you need to break early early on in a tutorial-like segment, with a text prompt that says "You may sometimes need to destroy electrical boxes to proceed - keep your eyes open around laser doors!"

Boom. We'd get to Sal's, see the laser door and think "ah, one of these. I'll look for the electrical box before I start backtracking"

This segment alone alomst made me stop playing, but I'm still jamming it now that I'm past this section.

I really do like the game, but dang, that section was a fun-suck.

You did this an area before this to enter the big parking lot area where the Blackout happens. The game has already taught you to destroy junction boxes to disable laser grids. There was even an Aos voice line to announce you doing it.

We're not adding a tutorial for something the player has already done before that required no tutorial.

[Nicholaki]

Yeah I'm gonna label this as a skill issue.

[Cahalith]

Originally posted by Exterminator class of 1999:

Originally posted by Cahalith:

I haven't had the same experience, but I do wonder if the developers plan to signpost some of the intended progression later, since the narrative and radio chatter are still to be implemented right now. I think you could easily remedy some of this confusion by having Sal go "I see you've reached the bar, you can get in through the back" or something.

There's no reason to do that. Just set the damn electrical box at eye level. I don't need some A.I. voice to tell me "Hey, look up at that corner." It's pointless.

Oh, I totally agree that there's no reason to add an audio prompt. But I figured it would help people who consider a junction box above eye level to be an insurmountable obstacle.

[Peaberry]

You can hit M to show off your objectives in game. Isn't the objective at that point listed as "Get into Sal's Bar"? If the only building available to you is the giant one, with a front door that's closed and a laser grid to be disabled *somehow*, certainly you wouldn't think to backtrack?

[Nexxtic]

Originally posted by Cahalith:

Originally posted by Exterminator class of 1999:

There's no reason to do that. Just set the damn electrical box at eye level. I don't need some A.I. voice to tell me "Hey, look up at that corner." It's pointless.

Oh, I totally agree that there's no reason to add an audio prompt. But I figured it would help people who consider a junction box above eye level to be an insurmountable obstacle.

I do like the idea of a junction box making a recognizable buzzing noise though!

[Hurykles]

I've had a simillar problem with junction box. I spent like 10 minutes roaming around because I thought I missed some kind of switch. I also went back to previous section of the level to search for a clue.

I mean yeah yeah there was a section that teaches player to shoot these boxes to turn forcefield off but there was also section where you turn it off with a button and I thought you have to do the same thing here.
Also some junction boxes do nothing. So I just didn't bother to even think of shooting it. Because I thought it is a decoration

[GadenKerensky]

To be fair, I struggled a bit at first because I didn't notice the junction box either. I figured it was some other way inside, before I noticed it on my way back, without specifically looking up.

I only encountered one laser fence disabled by a junction box, in a pretty obvious spot. And plenty of other laser fences that were insurmountable, so I had no reason to suspect the fence by Sal's Bar was powered by a junction box.

[EVILE-VON-OVERKILLE]

Having done the area I wanna say this.

I think part of the fun was trying to figure out how to get in.
It just seems like to many people want an easy mode for everything and thats just a BAD idea for a good game.
You go in and figure things out and THEN you say yeah Bi--h I got you!!!
That's part of the fun.

Level was fine the way it was laid out IMO