This game leaves me positive, but confused

[GamerX]

Hi there,

played through the first few levels with my friend today (he thinks that this is an excellent boomer shooter, so he got the EA version yesterday).

I myself, being a huge fan of boomer shooters (DUSK, Amid Evil, Prodeus, Cultic) AND classic immersive sims (System Shock 2, Prey 2017, Deus Ex, Thief) at the same time, I am somehow confused about Selaco. Because it seems to want to mix up to genres which don´t fit together.

First of all, yes, these (retro) graphics, shooting, movement are all very good, without any doubt. It is remarkable what they achieved with GZDOOM, but this is not what I´m talking about.

I´m wondering - where is this game heading in terms of gameplay?

It doesn´t want to be a real immersive sim (see examples above). So why does it use typical mechanics of immersive sims then? (Picking up objects, carrying them around etc.). The few riddles can´t justify these mechanics. And why is there so much interactivity in this game? Yes, I know, the Build Engine games (Duke 3D, Blood etc.) also had interactivity to SOME degree, they used it mostly for fun, yet, it didn´t go very deep, so you couldn´t lift objects, throw them and so on (this wasn´t possible before Deus Ex came out, as far as I remember). For me, the interactivity doesn´t add much here, it just bloats the game and doesn´t fit in a fast-paced FPS. Immersive Sims are not fast paced, they´re slow, tactical and focus a lot on inventory management and resources.
Moreover, I really can´t understand why the story is conveyed through readables, again, this doesn´t fit in a fast-paced FPS. Take Bioshock 1 as an example (I would call it a “borderline immersive sim”, it´s much more a FPS than an immersive sim), it played a lot faster than System Shock 2, so the story is mostly told via audiologs so that the player doesn´t need to stop and read all the time. Prey 2017 was slower paced than Bioshock 1, so reading e-mails etc. was fine here. In Selaco, reading these texts to find about door codes and stuff feels out of place for me.

It wants to be a successor to FEAR, however, FEAR was a very linear and relatively simple FPS (and not the best one, if you ask me - in comparison to genre masterpieces like Half Life it got old very fast) which didn´t have gigantic levels, it was much more combat and story focussed. These huge, System Shock / maze like levels are completely against the design choices that FEAR followed.

So, just for interest, in which direction is this game heading in the future?
Is it more like a wild mixed of genres?

Still undecided if I should buy the EA now or wait for the final product...

[Fish]

Origineel geplaatst door GamerX:

It doesn´t want to be a real immersive sim (see examples above). So why does it use typical mechanics of immersive sims then? (Picking up objects, carrying them around etc.).

It's funny. Also some objects can be used in combat if you want to. But just in general letting the player enter an environment and fk around with it can just be for fun. I'm bringing the teddy bear from the beginning of the game all the way through for the hell of it. For all I know there's an achievement for it but idrc, it's just funny to do while streaming to friends.

Origineel geplaatst door GamerX:

Moreover, I really can´t understand why the story is conveyed through readables

Other than the story being unfinished like the dev said (I was worried about the lack of story), I'd rather side stuff be text logs I can skim and get the story, or parse carefully and get the details, rather than audio logs where I'm forced to stand still and listen so the gunplay doesn't interrupt it. That and possibly deafen if I'm hanging out in a voice chat cuz friends wanna talk about ♥♥♥♥ in the VC like gay anime or sexy furries or smth while the game is putting lore in my pocket. Definitely look forward to the main story stuff being implemented, but for the side stuff this is absolutely preferred to me over audio logs.

Origineel geplaatst door GamerX:

So, just for interest, in which direction is this game heading in the future?
Is it more like a wild mixed of genres?

♥♥♥♥ I hope so

Origineel geplaatst door Nexxtic:

Video game design is heavily overrated in my opinion, and some games should just do what feels right without thinking too long about it. There is a place in the market for this, and that's what Selaco is meant to be.

I think game design Youtube has caused some brainrot unfortunately. One too many "BotW good" video essays and now indie devs just get a bunch of Roblox obby builder armchair devs up their asses. It's ridiculous. Not saying OP is this bad, I just think we get a bit too involved in the weeds of fixed rules for what could be a very diverse form of art.

[Roler42]

Origineel geplaatst door Palandus:

The interactivity issue, is a matter of identity. If the game was a Life Sim, there would be no issue, but in a FPS, it serves no purpose. In a Life Sim its all about the cool little interactions and interactivity of the environment. In a FPS it needs a practical purpose, otherwise why would players bother with it? Its like barrels and crates in an ARPG. They don't serve a purpose outside of dropping loot. If they didn't do that, no one would smash them.

It's called attention to detail, FEAR had this when giving you the option to listen to answering machines or to even use CQC to bycicle kick enemies during gunfights, they were not necessary for the experience, and FEAR's story isn't the stuff of legends, but it's there if you want it.

As for purpose? What other purpose is needed than to just have fun? FromSoft's games for instance have a wealth of breakable objects that offer nothing, but you can ask any player and they will all tell you they break them on purpose because of how satisfying it is.

[Solais]

Origineel geplaatst door Palandus:

As for purpose? What other purpose is needed than to just have fun? FromSoft's games for instance have a wealth of breakable objects that offer nothing, but you can ask any player and they will all tell you they break them on purpose because of how satisfying it is.

Most fun in Dark Souls games is rolling into a bunch of barrels. Do I got anything out of it? Not really. Just fun and the satisfaction of seeing the barrels break. Which is more than enough.

[Palandus]

All I'm saying is that the game strives to not be a life sim "on paper" but then is a life sim with all the interactivity. What is so bad at calling Selaco a life sim, Hrmmm? It has puzzles and riddles like a life sim. It has keycodes and environmental story telling through data pads. It has some combat, but not as much as most FPSes do. It has little fun things to interact with, like a life sim does.

So its a life sim. Explain to me how its not a life sim?

[sloan441]

I'm getting a strong Marathon/Marathon2 vibe from this game and I'm totally OK with that. I like the convoluted levels. It fits in with what both the game and the narrative is seemingly trying to achieve.

I like the enemy AI. Shoot and scoot is pretty much the order of the day and it does work. Attack into ambushes and constantly circle enemies to flank--they'll do it to you in a heartbeat.

My only real objection and it's fairly minor is jumping puzzles in FPS. This is problematic. DOOM Eternal went this way and it was nothing but a damned nuisance. I spent more time falling off things than shooting things. That's a fail state. This game immediately raised red flags on height puzzles, but it became apparent very quickly they were more environmental puzzles and the jumping part--if any--was pretty forgiving.

Overall, I'm liking this game very much.

[Grampire]

Origineel geplaatst door Fish:

I think game design Youtube has caused some brainrot unfortunately. One too many "BotW good" video essays and now indie devs just get a bunch of Roblox obby builder armchair devs up their asses. It's ridiculous. Not saying OP is this bad, I just think we get a bit too involved in the weeds of fixed rules for what could be a very diverse form of art.

I couldn't agree more. I see the mantra of "good design" as some box that devs and players safely put their expectations into and measure everything else. It trades really confronting the "why" behind these ideas for a safe template.

Sometimes that's all that's needed and completely fine, but conceptually it's probably as constricting as it sounds. I'm no developer so I am only empathizing, but tempering expectations so you get an audience while being able to create what you want to make seems like a nightmare proposition.

I'm looking forward to what Selaco becomes and have seen enough to trust the devs to take me on that journey before finally deciding. It's a fun title with some great ideas that are well executed.

[HadSexOnce]

I find it strange that anyone would complain about the interactivity in the game, it's extremely immersive and has made up for some of my favorite moments. Perhaps some people have completely rotted away their attention span and lose focus if something isn't shooting at them every 30 seconds, but I personally enjoy exploring the beautiful environments and rummaging around with the great environmental bits to find secrets(there are A LOT), the sound all the objects make and the way they react to being shot etc makes up for some incredible set pieces for combat.

As for issues i've encountered with the game, i'd say one of the only problems I had were navigating, however the more i progress and understand the level design and what i should be looking for, the easier it gets to figure out where to go, albeit there is a slight issue for me in some stages where a lot of the areas blend together and i tend to zone out a bit and walk down the same hall a few times.

Combat-wise I have one gripe and it's that the enemy sometimes pre-firing on certain angles can be a little frustrating as i like to try and perfect an encounter with no damage, besides that learning how they work together and always go for a multi-directional flank has me setting up encounters quite effectively with no issues due to their aggression. I recommend anyone to notch up that fov to about 110-120, lower effects and how long they stay, then turn down the music so you can hear the enemies walking around and making callouts, you'll ALWAYS hear the enemy coming and be ready to blast them into purple goo.