Thoughts from a climber

[Johnny Cash Flow]

First, I want to start by pointing out that I recognize how difficult it is to make a good climbing game. The flow, the movement, the strength versus skill, it's all so difficult to represent in a video game and I will always support developers who make an honest effort to make a detailed representation of my favorite sport.

So I have finished my first ascent and completed the demo, starting my second to go exploring more, and I'm in the "gym" and wanted to give some feedback on my frustrations.

The number one issue I have with this game, so far, is limb selection. Had it not been for reading a comment on a YouTube video on the game, I wouldn't have even known about manual swapping of limbs. This is a great feature and should be standard; however, trying to select the limb I want is painful, especially in tense moments when I need to move quickly.

To solve this I recommend two solutions:

1. Make the Left joystick change standardized - that is, press the stick up and to the right will ALWAYS get you your right hand while pressing left and down will ALWAYS get your left foot, etc., regardless of orientation. Right now it's so difficult to try to spin the camera around to try to get a limb based on, seemingly, context of the camera and body position. Just make it standardized, or...

2. Change, or allow players to change, the controller inputs to make specific buttons refer to specific limbs (i.e. L1 is Left arm, R2 is right foot, etc.). This would allow for faster limb selection while climbing.

The second, and last, major issue that I have encountered is the forced swapping of limbs and mandatory only three points of contact. I have, frustratingly, fallen off of a route simply because I placed a limb (let's say left hand) and the game automatically swaps to another limb (let's say right foot) which was the primary limb holding me to the wall. The player should be free to press a button to decide when to pick up a limb and place a limb (R3 and L3, for example? Or the Square button for both?). Either way, players should be able to maintain a four points of contact position in order to rest or get their bearings.

As stated, these are the two major issues that I've encountered thus far - all others are minor and I hope will be squared away with final release.

Looking forward to playing the final game!

Cheers!

[Snooze.py]

absolutely agree manual limb selection should at least be pointed out

[dongivafuk]

I don't understand the problem with limb selection.

lets say for example that you are controlling your right hand......pressing circle will go back one move ( so select previous limb) pressing square will place right hand and select next limb. so that's already 3 limbs. You're controlling one limb, previous limb is one button away. next limb is one button away. if you want the 4th limb then just press square twice and you have now selected the 4th limb.

so we have control of one limb,
previous limb is circle]
next limb is square
(how are you going to make this easier, it's pretty easy already. one button push)
the 4th limb is 2 quick presses of a button away.

You can access all 4 limbs with max 2 button push, but mostly one button will give you access to 3 limbs. Explain how you can make it quicker.

[XIXlolXIX]

Originally posted by dongivafuk:

I don't understand the problem with limb selection.

I'd say it's mostly a problem in specific moments when you want to move a certain way but the game repeatedly auto selects a different limb than you want. Even with the back button or reelecting a limb it still picks the wrong one.

Like I said its not all the time, I mostly use the auto select when I'm doing regular climbing but in more difficult areas a more precise or faster way to select the exact limb I want would be helpful. The most common suggestion I've seen is to use the bumpers and triggers for limb selection.

[dongivafuk]

Ok, it's not something i really encountered but i have only played a couple of hours.

Maybe something like HOLD down square (hand placement button) whilst square is held down you can use the left stick to select either of 4 diagonals for the limbs, then release square to gain control of that limb.

I think the 4 shoulder buttons would take up too many buttons.

[GMRslyer]

Agreed about the limbs.

As a climber as well, I am a little mixed on this. I dont like that I have to TAKE to rest, there should be positions to rest. But that would require knees and elbows.

[4-Ø-Fox]

Omfg yes pleeeeaaaase, I'm doin the extra stuff in the gym and just rage quit on wall 6 because of how infuriating limbs are, the fun climbers used the triggers for arms and it's so intuitive, manual select should just disable auto select, its hard enough tryna shimmy up a vrack when i cant see where my limbs are goin and it needs crazy precision to get a proper hold without CONSTANTLY TRYNA TAKE MY FEET OFF THE WALL I JUST F3CKING PUT THEM ON, I really REALLY wanna love this game but the whole game is sold on movement and right now it feels awful. Sorry I'm ranty I've been driven actually insane. If they can at least offer a way to map limbs to buttons things should feel a lot better [or at least feel like my fault for scuffin it] and on the Deck the grip buttons would be so handy for that.

[hexenfree]

One thousand percents needs some sort of limb selection system, really fun otherwise.

[cpoc019]

I feel like using a weapon's wheel with time slowed during the selection process for selecting limbs wouldn't be a bad idea either. That or just have a designated button that when held down you move your feet and when released you move your hands would work quite well as well (basically the control scheme for the game New Heights) e.g.
holding shift and L/RMB: move left/right foot
holding L/RMB: left/right hand
transfer this control scheme to controller could be L/RT for either hand and L/RB for either feet

[hexenfree]

Originally posted by cpoc019:

I feel like using a weapon's wheel with time slowed during the selection process for selecting limbs wouldn't be a bad idea either. That or just have a designated button that when held down you move your feet and when released you move your hands would work quite well as well (basically the control scheme for the game New Heights) e.g.
holding shift and L/RMB: move left/right foot
holding L/RMB: left/right hand
transfer this control scheme to controller could be L/RT for either hand and L/RB for either feet

Honestly I don't even think time needs to be slowed down, a weapon wheel on its own would just make the process alot smoother, as the limbs would be in the same place every time and all.

Absolutely should have something like that.

[Johno]

swapping foot holds when there isnt enough room for two feet is a good feature.
im only using keyboard.

[MULCH DLUX]

I beat the demo many times, manual limb selection didn't feel necessary, and I never fell because of using the wrong one...

And then I went to beat Wall 8. Wall 8 is very punishing if you don't precisely move limbs, and sometimes the game will decide that the limb you need to move is the only one in a secure hold.

I imagine Kami will have some very technical sections that will also really encourage manual limb selection. So getting it working well seems pretty important for the final release.

[Johnny Cash Flow]

Originally posted by Johno:

swapping foot holds when there isnt enough room for two feet is a good feature.
im only using keyboard.

Agreed. Same with swapping hands on a small crimp.

[SANDMAN]

Real climber here as well, and I recognize many of the same challenges. I instantly switched to manual control, and it’s a huge improvement—at least if you know how to climb and understand weight transfers.

That said, this is without a doubt the best climbing mechanics I’ve seen in a game—easily the most realistic. Of course, the pacing is different from real life, and the controls can be frustrating at times, but the translation of movement is executed really well.

I hope the full release allows for some dynamic moves. Sometimes, you want to push just a little further than a full stretch, accepting the risk that comes with it. The hand controls feel great, but I struggle more with getting my feet to land properly in cracks, etc. A bit of a silly suggestion since your art is already in place, but I think climbing shoes with a more distinct point would help. As it stands, I just aim my foot slightly above and hope it sticks.

All in all, you’ve got something really special here—I can’t wait for the full release!

[Shivver]

How about WASD? Hold/Press W to use left arm, A left leg, S right leg and D for right arm.

Press again to stop using or use holding the button while moving it with the mouse.

[Johnny Cash Flow]

Originally posted by Shivver:

How about WASD? Hold/Press W to use left arm, A left leg, S right leg and D for right arm.

Press again to stop using or use holding the button while moving it with the mouse.

I'm using a controller, but if this is a solution for keyboard and mouse users, then I hope it works for them!