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Especially the mini planets on the 2nd one.
This one is a 5/10 for me. Missed the mark due to very strange design choices.
Oh, and how the hell does the game not remember your custom button mapping? It's gotta use the same engine as the other games, so how the heck does something like this even happen?
While BMZ1&2 felt like awesome action-adventure games, this one just feels like yet another bad Inticreates game. It's sad because there are some really good mechanics here but they're wasted in a ok/mediocre game with Inti's usual "we need to make this game difficult" design
The special dungeons where you choose the rift route or the security robot route were "okay". The idea is sound, but choosing between a route that had a clear design/intent behind it versus a seemingly RNG route that is mostly combat was pretty lousy.
Also, let's be honest here. You can't get much more Blaster Master in structure than BMZ1 - it's practically a remake... with a few things here and there to make it easier for the modern day gamer. Just be thankful that none of the BMZ Trilogy have a lives system... You'd all be screaming.
BM03 has way, way less dimensional distortions than 02 (especially when you take into account the ones in the Divido dungeons), and it doesn't matter once you get the thing to just swim through them.
I don't know of anything else in the game that just 1HKOs you.
I don't think I lost at any point in 03 to that boss, period.
2 had sidequests but even then it wasn't that big of a deal. You could make Gonbei's without ever needing to exit Montoj. Kanna one you go back to an unexplored section at Flosante (and Flosante itself is a small area) and for Steiner you go back to L-229 but having Burn Spark from the beginning you can access the shortcuts and traverse through the ship a lot faster.
On BM is even worse because you just need to find where the boss is, get it's upgrade and know where to use it to progress. That's it. When you already know where to go it's just a matter of going right at it.
3 on the other hand forces you to go back to all the areas not only to progress through the game (what they did on Forbidden Sector was lazy as hell) but also to get all the items, there are a lot of fake walls and stuff. Needing to guess what are actual items from what are Life Guards is also a pain in the ass, exploration as a whole don't feel as dynamic because they tried to force metroidvania aspects in a game that never actually focused that much on them.
As for difficulty, it's not like the game is "omg so hard i can't progress" or something, but they need to resort so much on things like spawning enemies really close of you (if not inside of you), weird and tank enemies that you literally need to exploit them to kill without getting damaged, bizarre boss patterns and boring fights were you need to mash to make their pacing feel right, and filling the areas with Life Guard just as an excuse to put all those bs things at you.
Ever since Gunvolt 1 it feels like Inti forgot what things like skill-gap, balancing, difficult curves and learning curves meant. They just make really specific levels and throw you with "invincibility" things only for them to say "oh, but you just need to use them lol". It's just poor and lazy design.
Fair enough that the backtracking isn't as intense, but going back to past areas to access new ones wasn't exactly new or unique to BMZ3 within the series, now was it?
Still requires a bunch of backtracking to get to the right areas, but I guess perhaps I'm being a bit more loose with defining a Metroidvania compared to you here. That being said, I've been watching footage of Blaster Master Overdrive recently cause I was curious about it, and go figure - that game is more Metroidvania than the original was because it has its own item pickups and exploration tools to access different areas, and extensions to health and energy that you can pick up.
Fair play to you if you think it wasn't exactly well executed. For what it's worth, to me it feels like far less of a disconnect when there's no world map in between the Side View areas, and that's the justification I had for calling BMZ3 more Metroidvania than BMZ2.
Sounds like someone tried to take on the Sophia Force when they literally mention they have endless amounts of them... I feel like the other things I'd be more curious to in this point would be the specific enemies that you're talking about here, cause as far as I'm aware, they just spawn Sophia Force enemies a short distance away from you when you cross a specific area. Only in SF Dungeons will the SF enemies spawn really close to you, and that's usually because you decided to take the set path of most resistance - which I'm fairly sure was done on purpose. Even then, you should have Rushing Attacker available to you not long after you get into Area 2...
To get optional upgrades? I think it is.
Area entrances were always close to each other just so that the player doesn't need to backtrack that much, which was nice of Sunsoft at that time and nice of Inti for keeping that on BMZ1.
Same goes to BMZ2, there are a lot of shortcuts on all areas just so that the player doesn't need to revisit sections he've already been and go directly where he needs to.
Haven't seen Overdrive yet, so I'm not sure.
However I will say again that area entrances were always really close from one another just to save some backtracking, and except for Area 2 on BMZ1 and sidequests for BMZ2 you never needed to detour that much from what you're doing.
Tbh, at least I could traverse whole areas on BMZ2 without needing to get out of the tank, pass through a dungeon and teleport Sophia back to me. Sure, on BMZ3 you can go back to those sections with Sophia on lategame, but I think it makes areas seem a lot more disconnect when you first play it. BMZ1 made this for Area 7 but it worked for the whole Skeleton Boss build-up, on 3 it just feels repetitive and with weird purposes, like locking sections you've already been because you don't have the VRV system or something? Just to lock you again for going there again because you don't have that aqua dash... AND THEN DOING IT AGAIN because you can't swim through dimensional distortions yet? The game only tells you that you can' go there because you don't have the aqua dash, so what about the distortions?
There's also the Forbidden Sector where you need to teleport from FOUR DIFFERENT LOCATIONS, just to access the area and its keys. Not my thing.
"Oh, but you can teleport to a closer section and progress through there", but they never needed that to make the areas on the first two games, it feels like they gave up on properly connecting places and just resorted on forcing the player to teleport from one place to another and it feels lazy.
There are ways of doing this tho, you could make SF dungeons more challenging by being more clever like some of them are, but they just make you depend on subweapons and Life Guards or the VRV system or whatever and, again, it really just feels... lazy. BMZ1 kinda made you use some Flash Bombs to progress, but still wasn't that big of a deal because you should already have that subweapon by that point if you didn't miss anything. While BMZ3 constantly forces you to rely on them every single time.
"Just come back later" this just makes backtracking even worse because now I'll need to revisit every single area again to complete the SF dungeons. And they have 90% of the SP upgrades and iirc even some Life Ups are there, I may be wrong tho. They needed to go that far? BMZ1&2 are great games and they never needed to resort to any of that.
Imagine if Stranga had dungeons in this game, right?
There are some parts at Sophia Metropolis too where they'll just spawn worms and bees and those mini-MA's really close to you just to force you to get out of the tank or use Homing Missiles, and when you kill them they'll respawn. Area 3 has some sections like that too, I guess, but they don't spawn as close to you but you still need to resort on Homing Missiles to kill them fast.
Again, there are ways of doing that. It's sad that they need to resort on that to make the player feel weak or whatever. And again, they never needed any of that to make challenging areas.
I could just use the VRV System and complete the dungeons a lot easier, yeah, but they really needed to make the actual dungeons feel so artificially difficult because of that? It's just like the sarcophagus boss on CotM2 Episode 2 where you need to use Hachi's invincibility to make the fight tolerable. Or Prevasion on Gunvolt games because bosses will almost always have stupid and all-over-the-place patterns for someone to try without Prevasion. Or the whole balancing of DMFD where you need to have every kind of antidote, potion or whatever because enemies will constantly throw effects at you, and bosses will always kill you with 3 or 4 hits. It's always like that for Inti and I'm just tired of them needing to resort to their same old bad design philosophies,.
Especially because, again, BMZ was the only series that they never did any of that, and the only one I loved it because of that. they were just great action-adventure games. This one isn't.
If only dashing and counter didn't share the same gauge. And if only the SF dungeons didn't have upgrades for said gauge.
They'll throw so much enemies at you that I really don't think you have enough CP to dodge all of them.
You go into those dungeons alone as Jason (the view change) , get the items deep within it's layers and once you leave there shouldn't be any "Pending stuff here" blue icon on the map.
However the game tells ya "Hey, ya forgot something here!", you go, you remember the place, and whenever you reach each floor there's nothing except the last one with an extra life or whatever item shield thing... You pick it up and it re-appears on the map later on
GIVE ME A BREAK!!.. I WANT PROGRESSION, NOT A WASTE OF TIME OF BACKTRACKING FOR THINGS I DON'T WANT!. LET ME KNOW THAT -THAT- KIND OF ITEM IS THERE FOR ME IF I WANTED!
And on that note, the voids (Jason goes blue, maze/world goes different but in this case it's MAZES) felt more like an easy SPEEDRUN. The good thing atleast is that you're mostly NOT forced to kill everyone except bosses to go through the rooms and you get the same rewards, making this good for some impatient people like me.
The issue on that is that to get the last BLUE upgrade for SOPHIA required for the true ending is that you must NOT use the voids in it's designated map area (Pointed in red, for once!), else you'll be thinking "What am i doing wrong?" and well, similar to the "pointless backtracking" mentioned above
Another thing i disliked were the labyrinths the game has, specially "Hidden areas" that are only visible when you push yourself into em (Elevator maze, anyone?)
Also the whole "True Ending Path" method is... Ummm... Can't we get an option or something instead of "letting it be"?. I had a couple of mistakes in previous BMZ games and this time i checked how to get the ending to save me the hassle before i started playing it and i was like "Seriously...?".. Sure, that's cheating, but who else would've noticed when to do it? (I did it without seeing any red text nor reaching a certain line, as long as "that" happened i did "the thing")
It was still a fun game, except for the final boss (the one before the "plot twist fight" wich i was like "Ah, there's my upgrades...Wait, i was playing a--- *SHOT!!!*")
7/10
Relative to BMZ3, I think this is why I personally end up liking the Retry Point/Area Gate teleport system better - A bit like BMZ2 in a sense where you travel to different points in the map to access different areas, but without the downtime of traversing the world map (and the launch platforms) just to get to where I need to go.
It seems like Inti Creates games may not be entirely up your alley, honestly, cause haven't many of them been this difficult even before they started making more original IPs? Correct me if I'm wrong here, of course, as someone who's not played too many Inti games, but I've always thought their design philosophy involved stuff like this in terms of challenges, like getting those fabled A Ranks in the Mega Man Zero series. Also, it's not like those boss patterns can't be read... Not everyone has the patience to be able to commit those to memory, though.
For what it's worth, even though BMZ2 was a harder game than the original, I found it easy after a while since I knew what I was doing. If I'm parroting myself, I apologise, but I honestly appreciated the increase in difficulty as it was the sort of thing I was personally looking for in this series that didn't delve into Destroyer Mode territory, which is simply BS.
I feel like that's just you being overzealous with it. All actions using the CP Gauge cost the same, I think, though if I'm not mistaken, the Spin Balancers do improve how fast it recharges, too. And honestly speaking, if you're not using your full arsenal to repel the SF (since most of them you can literally just ignore and move straight on to the end, keyword "most", until later stages), then I don't know what to tell you.
I do apologise if it makes me sound a bit elitist by saying this, but at least IMO, there are enough tools out there even in the early stages which can make things a lot easier to deal with if you take the normal space route through an SF Dungeon. All enemies (both mutants and the SF) have their patterns, too, and while it may seem overwhelming at first, a well-timed Blast Launcher should be enough to stun the Sophia Force bots and get some good hits in (or make your escape). But that's just me, in any case... I won't blame you if you think otherwise.
As curious as I am to try and distil the essence of what makes Blaster Master Blaster Master, I feel like this is the point where I'd probably want to not continue in this conversation, as I know I'd probably be fighting a futile battle if I tried to argue against stuff like this. I've already lost so much sleep over arguments in other places that it's probably not worth losing my mind over another one which I know is not worth fighting, especially when this game's already doing that with some absurd claims in another thread...
And because shortcuts to traverse through areas were a thing since the NES game, the teleport system, while not being the worst thing ever, just feels different from what those games have made, even if you take into consideration that BMZ2 has a world map.
But I get it why some people prefer this approach, I personally just think it's too different from a system that never was a problem in the first place.
Yeah, unfortunately you're correct... but that's when the discussion starts to get a bit sadder to me.
Again, you're not wrong at all. However, I don't know how to put this, but MMZ still feels different from Inti's new IPs when it comes to the challenges. I love some of their Megaman games, ZX being my favorite, they were always a hit or miss but they still didn't miss that much.
I love MMZ1, people say that it's the hardest from the series but I disagree. What makes the game "feels" hard is the Weapon Level system, and that system is bad for sure, honestly. But you still can grind for levels really early and fight Aztec Falcon with charged slashes and all that. Platforming sections were hard too, but you still could learn how to pass them without that much of a problem. And every time I replay that game I always try to get the A ranks and ever since my second playthrough, I could do it consistently and without dying that much. And it felt good, because I feel like I was rewarded for learning and playing that game well.
I also love MMZ3, the more I learned about that game's structure, the more astonished I got for how well thought every single mechanic was in it. Things like the Recoil Rod, the combo system, the satellite elves (finally), the body chips, removing the weapon levels (finally²) made the game so much enjoyable to me and I think to everyone else.
The games were still hard, sure, but the thing about those 2 games especially is that different playstlyes actually existed. If I wanted to beat the game by only using the Buster Shot and Z-Saber, I could do it. If I wanted to use a certain build of sattelite elves, I could still beat the game. If I didn't wanted to use cyber-elves on MMZ1 to get all the elf points at the ranking, I could do it (and I do it everytime). Other thing about the difficulty about those games is that the game doesn't need to constantly throw things at you just so that the player gets damaged a lot (even though the games do take you by surprise sometimes), so dodging and defeating enemies was a fun and tricky challenge.
I absolutely love playing Megaman 9, it's the probably the Inticreates game that I played the most. And the thing about that game is that he is, indeed, hard at first. However, weapons were so useful that if you really couldn't progress, you could just rely on them.
HOWEVER, I am someone who doesn't like using weapons at all lol except when I need to (like Tornado Blow, Laser Trident and Concrete Shot on some sections) and on bosses and sub-bosses (Concrete Shot completely obliterates sub-bosses), so I never mind using them nor Rush when I play it, and I still can get to the ending with no problem (even though every time I replay it I choke on a different section lmao). I liked that game so much that I didn't even bothered to start completing some of those dumb challenges. Also, there's an achievement called "Conservationist" where you need to beat the game using the least amount of Weapon Energy possible, and even with those limitations, the game was still FUN AS HELL to play it. And like those MMZ games I mentioned, getting good felt good and organic because playstyles were varied and had it's fair amount of challenges and rewards/satisfaction.
I talk like I'm being nostalgic but I only played them last year lol but the games I loved really grew on me the more I played them. And that's what I was excepting of Inti when I bought their games on Steam, games that felt just like their great MM games. But every time I try a new game of them, they just feel the same kind of game. If I want to do those games the hard way, it'll always be the same specific thing over and over. Instead of different playstyles having it's own advantages and disadvantages, you only have one way of doing things.
The only way you can get score on Gunvolt is by tagging enemies and using Flashfield, that's it.
The only way you can get score with Copen is locking on an enemy, shooting until it's almost without health and using an EX Weapon, that's it.
The only way you can progress through a boss that just fills the screen with things, if you don't want to learn it's stupid pattern, it's by abusing Prevasion or turning on Hachi's invincibility or having Life Guards, that's it.
The only way you can pass through SF dungeons, if you don't wanna rely on your subweapons nor make the super-whatever path, is by brute-forcing your way through and having a lot of Life Guards, that's it.
It always feels so linear when you compare to their MM games and how they always were varied. You could or not use a certain MMZ weapon to hit enemies and bosses, you could or not level up your weapons (although you really should because that system is bad, but you do you...). you could or not learn the combo system to kill bosses on MMZ3 (I never did lol), you could or not use a certain satellite cyber-elf on a stage, you could or not use a certain weapon to make your life a bit easier in MM9, you could or not use a certain model to complete a stage or defeat a boss in MMZX (I personally like using ZX most of the time). VARIETY, man, while still being difficult.
But don't you find it funny how different Inti's MM bosses feel from their usual GV and CotM2 ones? There are some complicated ones, sure. But still it wasn't as absurd for the most part. Especially if you take the games that I mentioned before, their bosses are really good.
It's not like it is genuinely hard because, yeah, you can just resort on things and I already beated BMZ3 twice (although I played the second time only to get the normal ending). But it just doesn't feel as skill-based as their games were before. People love to say "git gud" or "don't blame the game if you're bad at it" for things like these, but for newer Inti games that's NEVER the case.
Yeah, I agree that at least it wasn't Destroyer Mode 2, but still feels lame...
BMZ2 is not that hard too because of that, when you know what you're doing is really easy to just dash through stages. And it was a honest game, it was never supposed to be omg so hard and it never was, even the dimesional distortions on that game are relatively easy to avoid (although i dion't like dying to them because I can't adjust the height of my Recoil Jump... and I still can't, I wish I could).
That's also the thing for their MM games I mentioned. They can be a lot hard at first, but if you know what you're doing and you're not afraid of doing it, you will eventually learn the game and beat it. Feels good.
I think the things is, Inti never did something like "oh so you like your games hard? THAT MEANS YOU'RE A TRY-HARDER THAT NEEDS TO RESTART STAGES OVER AND OVER AGAIN JUST TO LEARN ALL THE ENEMY PATTERNS AND KILL/DODGE ALL OF THEM?" with their games that I like and now they constantly do it. Maybe it's just me idk. I admit that I'm not good at videogames, but it's not like I hate difficult games because of that, when it feels good to learn I accept the challenge and may end up loving the game, some of my favorite indie games are Super Meat Boy and Celeste, for example. Unfortunately Inti's recent games don't feel good to learn because it's always... not my thing. Maybe I'll just try Gal*Gun when I have a better pc.
And I could just say that it's not my thing, but Inti fans feel so proud of themselves for trying those challenges and saying the same "amazing level/game design, git gud" things, I just feel sad, really. It's depressing...
But you're cool, so I'm sorry for being mean while I argued.