***How much health do chapter 2 enemies now have***?

[Og-the-Trog]

So, made the old bloodhunt/LHP build where you stack maxHP and run around with ~200 missing HP and 1 or 2-shot enemies...
The first nerf (chopping the +2% dmg per missing hp to +1%) hurts, but at +105dmg (140+ total) I'm failing to kill regular-ass enemies with a stealthed bodyshot.

Did yall REALLY make standard-ass scallywags, crocodiles, dogs, drowned undead, cultists etc IMMUNE to stealthed buffalo rifle bodyshots just to make sure bloody hunt builders learned their place?
Or are the numbers on my screen LYING to me, and the bloody hunt does NOT get the bonus it claims it does?

What gives?

Is the stealth bonus only applied to base damage now?


-edit
ok no can confirm that the buffalo rifle ONLY KILLS SKIN SEEKERS ON BODYSHOTS

What the hell devs??

[Greb]

Wonderful, thanks for taking the time to do that

[Fummelwilli]

I finally did it. In case anybody is still wondering, here are the HP values of the all creatures (note that I did not check the chapter 1 boss, will do later as well as provide images).

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3130274115

...and with later I mean tomorrow after I slept ... :/

[Og-the-Trog]

!!!

hmmmm, something weird's going on.
I'm not getting kills on drowners/rougarous when I should be according to those values.
Not with Bloody Hunt doing 140dmg, nor the Second Coming doing 130.
This on a fresh restart post ch3 drop.
>followed damage-dealt scripts when damaging something in-game
Say...did you do this data collection on a new save or an old one? ...maybe you just successfully collected data on what the enemies values *used* to be. :eyes:
Don't delete these if true! Might actually have found an answer to this thread's question!

((btw thanks for sharing!!! have a good sleep!))

[Fummelwilli]

Well I'm still eating dinner :P

The thing is damage is not so straight forward as you might think. Remember for example the prodigal daughter. Her mask blocks all damage dealt no matter the amount. That doesn't change her HP. It still is 60, but the damage modifer of the mask takes your damage dealt and multiplies it by 0 and then you deal 0 damage, but you trigger the mask coming off.

The damage script itself is about 450 lines of code, but references even more code in other scripts.
These are the arguments that are passed on, when damage is invoked:
ActorInstanceBodyPartActual organ, ActorInstance.DamageSource damageSource, float amount, bool isStrongAttack, Vector3 applyForceIfKilledForce, Vector3 applyForceIfKilledPosition, float chanceForStun, bool isExplosion, GameplayStateItem item, ProjectileInstance projectile, bool doNotAlert = false, bool doNotAlertOthers = false, bool ignoreMultiplayer = false


ActorInstanceBodyPartActual means that the game checks where the hit occured on the enemy and modifies the damage accordingly. That can stand for x5 head damage, but also e.g. negative damage modifiers for the limbs.

Also, that is not the only script which modifies the damage dealt. Ranged attacks deal less damage at certain ranges. The modifier for this could rest either in the PlayerCharacter or the item itself.

So yeah, that is that. Maybe I extend my logging script to also add the damage dealt.

Edit: Tried out Lord's Prayer (130 dmg) against Drowner point blank range - hit to the chest instant kill. Tried again with shooting the arm, same result instant kill.

[Greb]

That some phenomenal work, thanks for the work and time you put into it! Very useful information to have, never realised some enemies like the Prodigal Daughter had health that low. That's going to be useful for discovering certain breakpoints of weapons, maybe.

For example, those cowboy wraiths take even more damage from gold ammo, which already does double damage (is it 200% damage, or 100% + 200% = 300% damage? I forgot) anyway - but I've always wondered if that was honestly worth using gold ammo on, when silver ammo might already wreck 'em with a headshot anyway, right?

Do you have a way to grab the information on which enemies have quirks to things? Like taking bonus damage from stuff, silver / gold ammo, or from specific weapons, weakpoints, stuff like that? Like maybe the Skinner Man fat guys take bonus damage from explosives or something? Maybe different enemies have different damage multipliers for headshots?

It was a mess of trouble trying to kill those Blood Clot enemies, I don't know if I was missing them or they were just insanely resistant to damage or what.

[TK]

I agree enemies are pretty unbalanced healthwise, scallywags got insane body hp but they got big heads so you should still go for headshots, just shoot everything else 2 or 3 times, bow shoots fast at least.

[Og-the-Trog]

Originally posted by Word.exe:

Edit: Tried out Lord's Prayer (130 dmg) against Drowner point blank range - hit to the chest instant kill. Tried again with shooting the arm, same result instant kill.

Hm, to clarify then: Bow doing 35+105 dmg didn't OHK drowners, rougarous, crocs/cultists, but DID kill skin collectors.
Buffalo rifle Lord's Prayer (130dmg) failed to OHK a scallywag, croc or cultist, and that's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ but it's in line with your data.
>:|
Also I've never gotten a OHK on a death stalker ever since ch3 dropped.

Originally posted by Greb:

It was a mess of trouble trying to kill those Blood Clot enemies, I don't know if I was missing them or they were just insanely resistant to damage or what.

I've already given up on trying to stealth the clots-- better to just attract their attention one at a time and then go for mouth-hole headshots.

[Fummelwilli]

Originally posted by Og-the-Trog:

Hm, to clarify then: Bow doing 35+105 dmg didn't OHK drowners, rougarous, crocs/cultists, but DID kill skin collectors.

I can't really test the bow in chapter 2, because I only have an old savegame in chapter 2, which also does too much damage (like Greb's does). However, I tested the bow in chapter 2 anyways and I have a new save in chapter 3, which also has the bow and in both cases the bow deals exactly the amount of damage it says in the inventory (maybe you are too far away?). The only problem I see here is seemingly, that the 10% bonus dmg buff from the bow itself is nowhere applied.

Secondly I found a typo in their scripts. I couldn't wrap my head around the fact, that on multiple occasions they use terms like "ignoreMultiplayer", which is rather weird for a Singleton structure they are using. After alot of reading through their code I came to the conclusion, that whenever the devs wrote "Multiplayer" they instead meant "Multiplier" and then the whole ordeal makes much more sense. Since the game still somehow works and compiles without errors that is not necessary a problem as long as they did that mistake everywhere (name of a variable does not matter as long as it always has the same name). So maybe that is the source of the error, but again doesn't need to be a problem necessarily.

Originally posted by Greb:

Do you have a way to grab the information on which enemies have quirks to things? Like taking bonus damage from stuff, silver / gold ammo, or from specific weapons, weakpoints, stuff like that? Like maybe the Skinner Man fat guys take bonus damage from explosives or something? Maybe different enemies have different damage multipliers for headshots?

Without too much tech babbling, what I do is essentially, that I patch their .dll and input my own code, which (at least for me) is easier than injecting code at runtime. The problem I encountered so far is, that I cannot change something, patch and change another thing and patch again, because then the compiler will throw errors at me left and right. In other words I always have to start from scratch, when patching the file.

The problem with these values you asked for is, that they are hard to come by, because in a project like this, you do not hardcode these values (put them directly into the script) instead they derive from a multitude of different values. For example explosions don't deal a set amount of damage, instead they run a calculation from their point of origin to the maxmium blast radius. Then the x,y,z, position of the enemy must be taking into account and then a damage modifier is applied in relation to that position. So you see these are not static values, rather than values that a pieced together one by one getting passed along various scripts.

So you cannot ask by script right away: "Yoooo, you got any weakpoints?" Well, in theory you could, but that would probably lead to an enormous amount of data and anything more usable would require to write an own ingame UI to display the values in question and believe me, hardcoding a GUI is about as pleasant as a cactus to your face. However, what I already did is, that I extended my logging to also show the final damage dealt to the monster (which is how I tested the Bloody Bow, I wrote about above).

I could probably also use their "Singleton<Hud>.Instance.FieldMessages.ShowMessage" function to display the value in the bottom line, where it normally says things like "headshot" and so on. But that would be a problem, when it comes to shotguns, because they deal damage pellet by pellet, meaning that the box would overflow, because each pellet is counted as an isolated damage instance.

But to answer your question (without being 100% certain) - the game has a fixed head dmg multiplier (or multiplayer how they would call it - shots fired :P ) of x5 and a sneak melee damage bonus of x10 for all creatures. There is also a variable called "VitalOrgan.CountAsHead". This could simply be a necessity for the bearman, so both heads actually get head damage and for everybody else this state could be irrelevant. Or other creatures could have "hidden" heads as well. And that is, where we come back to what Og-the-Trog has expierienced. I also had some strange interactions with the Skin Collectors. I was also able to oneshot them, when I shouldn't have done so. Maybe (maybe!) the head, they are wearing on their belt is a hidden head dmg modifier? Well, I guess I test that later.

Edit: Sry, for the wall of text :D

Edit2: Checked the Skin Collector against Winchester, no damage modifiers so far. I guess my strange interactions (which I mostly experienced with melee) stem from the way the game uses raycasts for melee damage.

[Og-the-Trog]

fwiw in the painting room in ch3 with the spooky cat and the red dagger, the fleshy "mask" on the desk spurts blood when hit.

Might be nothing, but might also indicate they have some weird "head" flags ticked...(long shot)

[Fummelwilli]

Run again another test against a Skin Collector in chapter 3 (this guy must hate by now :D) and aside from the missing 10% damage modifier everything acts as it should, maybe it is an issue with your savegame? But so far I was not able to reproduce your problem.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3130917749

E: (On a sidenote, my log only displays max hp, which is why the mob's hp values don't change when hit.)

E2: (on another sidenote, the reason why the inventory says 115 instead of 114,8 is because for display purposes the value is rounded, but the calculation internally is done with the exact number, which is why it takes 3 hits to kill the skin collector instead of 2 hits, what the UI would indicate.)

[Greb]

Thanks for that, was an interesting read lol. You've gone above and beyond with the testing at this point demoneye: Some weird thing with the Skin Collectors, I remember they used to have such a large frame but my bolts would often somehow miss them, was pretty messed up, maybe something relating to that explains why you were able to one shot one that one time, lol.

Multiplayer wow I hope nobody comes along and corrects that in one place that it causes everything else that still hasn't been corrected to implode

[Fummelwilli]

You want to hear something really funny?

So my character in chapter 3 is bugged (whetstone buff permantly active). So my knife "Needle of Fate" deals with a heavy attack 37.8 dmg (without it, it would be 28dmg). However when I sneak attack with it, I only deal 180 dmg which would also be too low, if you would ignore the buff. I tested it on both polluters and hellbats - same results.

So I then did a strong sneak attack with it and went for a headshot on a polluter, it dealt 1170 dmg. I was wearing the ace of diamonds (which increases headshot dmg), but no matter how I turn these values around I can't come up with a calculation with that result.

So I went in again and used the bone knife with a base damage of 23, but with the bug on my character dealing 31,05 damage with a strong attack. When I sneak attack with it, I deal 150 dmg (which again doesn't make sense - again strong attack used). Then I did a critical hit dealing 201.825 dmg (strong attack), which also makes no sense because only shots fired should be able to trigger these. And then I went for a sneak headshot dealing 975 damage.

I mean the x10 damage modifier on sneak was something I read somewhere and did not check until now, but even when a sneak attack doesn't deal as much damage, I don't understand the damage dealt by sneak headshots. Honestly something seems to be rather strange, because even when assuming a strong sneak attack deals less damage than assumed, getting a modifier which turns 37,8 into 180 and 31,05 into 150 is rather unusual (would be something around ~ x4,8).

I mean, would be interesting, if a dev could comment on that, wheter knifes indeed have a x4,8 damage modifier on strong sneak attacks or if it is a bug.

In other words maybe naming bonuses "multiplayer" already does something funny.^^ (given that it is not a decompiler error and that I did not break the damage calculation when adding my code - however I also experienced not being able to onehit kill polluters with a strong sneak attack of the knife even before my shenanigans.)

[Greb]

You lost me I'm not good with numbers

A headshot deals 5x damage but a sneak attack does 10x, but if you do a sneak attack headshot you only get 5x damage? So there's no benefit to performing a sneak attack headshot, at least in your game? Or...no? Sorry, confused

It could just be a bug with the new stuff though. Or the new relics?

[Fummelwilli]

I try to be more clear this time :)

Initially I thought, that headshots have a damage modifier of x5 and melee sneak attacks have one of x10, because that was, what I read somewhere (can't remember where). I managed to prove time and time again while testing, that the value for headshots is correct.

Whenever you do a ranged or non stealthed melee attack against a creature's head, you will always deal 5 times the damage.

However, if you add stealth to the mix, things get weird. Not only because there is no x10 damage modifier, but also because the values I get from testing are inconsistent. Here is my data:

(!head means hit to something other than the head)

rusty axe
dmg strong 20

hit !head stealth crit dmg 120
hit head stealth dmg 600

rusty knife
dmg strong 15

hit !head stealth crit dmg 120
hit head stealth 600

(normal) knife
dmg strong 20

hit !head stealth crit dmg 120
hit head stealth dmg 600

bone knife
dmg strong 23

hit !head stealth crit dmg 150
hit head stealth dmg 750

Living Vine
dmg strong 35

hit !head stealth crit dmg 150
hit head stealth dmg 750

(All data was tested on a fresh save without any buff/perks in chapter 1, all values were consistend over the following mob types: miners, zombies, prodigal daughters, Vendigos and birdmen)

These values make no sense. A rusty knife performs in stealth exactly like a normal knife despite it having 5 less base damage. Same goes for the Bone Knife versus the Living Vine, but here the damage differences between the two is even bigger. The only thing that is consistent so far is, that headshots still deal 5 times the damage.

120*5 = 600
150*5 = 750

But I cannot think of a formula to consistantly calculate the ( !head stealth crit dmg ) values.

rusty axe: 20 * x = 120 (x= 6)

rusty knife: 15 * x = 120 (x= 8)

(normal) knife: 20 * x = 120 (x= 6)

bone knife: 23 * x = 150 (x= 6,5217)

Living Vine: 35 * x = 150 (x= 4,2857)

As anyone can see the bonus stealth dmg modifiers jump between 4,2 and 8. And while different damage modifiers for different weapons might be possible, a human certainly wouldn't come up with such strange values for modifiers. In other words - I do not know what is going on here.

Edit: I now tried out using the totems melee buff, if it would change something about the values. It doesn't for stealth. Using the bone knife it still did 150 damage on a sneak attack and 750 damage on a sneak headshot. The only thing that changed were the values for non stealthed attacks. Crazy...

[artofwar]

It looks like maybe stealth damage is set by the Tier of the item and not by the damage of the item?

In other words, rather than some multiplier, maybe the game simply says "Stealth head hit with an Epic level melee weapon does 750 damage regardless of base damage of the weapon."