Bad magic system

[LenoirM]

Drova is awesome game, and I really like to play it. Always when I play RPGs I choose a spellcaster class.

In Drova, there are spells and a kind of magic class, but its impossible to play as mage since the begining of the game, and this force the player to spend learning points in skills that are not used by pure mages, or take a really hard time saving all the learning points until the magic became enable.

Additionally, the system of gaining focus through physical strikes also force the player to abandon the pure mage gameplay, and if the plays insistis on not gain focus attaking he gonna need a lot lf base focus and wait a long time until the focus bar are full to cast the powerfull spells.

So even though the game was incredible, the magic system disappointed me. I hope that could be fixed in a future Drova 2.

[a small rabbit]

Originally posted by Zuvio:

"plays into building a mage" does not equal "having a mage class in the game", my point absolutely stands and there is no contradiction.

OP literally said "~snip~ I choose a spellcaster class. In Drova, there are spells and a kind of magic class, but its impossible to play as mage", so that is exactly what this discussion is about: disappointment that there is not a magic class in the game even though the game does not pretend to have a magic class.

I have no stake in this game, despite the fact I love it. But criticizing anything based on a trait/perk that is not even intended to be in the game is weird, you could even say, it super upsets me.

I really don't understand what you are trying to argue. There is literally an armor type in the game designed around using spells along with other focus/magic damage boosting foods and items. The OP's complaint was that you can't use magic from the beginning of the game, which is true, even though the game is setup for it later.

What that means is you need to save all your learning points until you get to a mind trainer to be able to increase your prowess to use better weapons to get by until you can actually use your own spells because you cant respec your main stats. Its a very awkward setup if you want to focus on magic later which the game lets you do and even has options for. I would know because that's exactly what i did, and i also felt disappointed by it.

[Zuvio]

Originally posted by a small rabbit:

Originally posted by Zuvio:

"plays into building a mage" does not equal "having a mage class in the game", my point absolutely stands and there is no contradiction.

OP literally said "~snip~ I choose a spellcaster class. In Drova, there are spells and a kind of magic class, but its impossible to play as mage", so that is exactly what this discussion is about: disappointment that there is not a magic class in the game even though the game does not pretend to have a magic class.

I have no stake in this game, despite the fact I love it. But criticizing anything based on a trait/perk that is not even intended to be in the game is weird, you could even say, it super upsets me.

I really don't understand what you are trying to argue. There is literally an armor type in the game designed around using spells along with other focus/magic damage boosting foods and items. The OP's complaint was that you can't use magic from the beginning of the game, which is true, even though the game is setup for it later.

What that means is you need to save all your learning points until you get to a mind trainer to be able to increase your prowess to use better weapons to get by until you can actually use your own spells because you cant respec your main stats. Its a very awkward setup if you want to focus on magic later which the game lets you do and even has options for. I would know because that's exactly what i did, and i also felt disappointed by it.

Totally agree with you. It is awkward trying to focus on magic from the start, even though it is possible. It is in no way intuitive and for a decent chunk of the game, it's also not much fun. I do find it rewarding in the end when you get to CH4 and at that point where you can cast thunderstorm on cooldown without fighting. It is what it is. My contention was just that someone faults the game for not having something that was not intended to be, that is a pure mage 'class'. Calling the magic system 'bad', because it doesn't fit their playstyle.

[LenoirM]

Originally posted by Zuvio:

Well, there is no magic class. There are no classes actually. Just you the adventurer. You spent learning points to get better in certain areas. You learn skills based on what weapon you want to wield. Being able to use magic at all is deeply incorporated in how this world works. So your critique, although valid, is kind of misplaced for this game.

EDIT: also, the title of your post, "bad magic system", is a very strong wording of finding a fault in this game when the game never pretended to have what you are critiquing in the first place.

Zuvio, for all we said here, there is a conclusion: the game really dont have a "mage class", as it doesnt have any class. But the game has magic and, therefore, theres is something that we may call "magic system".

My point is: usually in fantasy RPGs there are classes or some system for choose wich style of combat and gameplay (ex.: Skyrim dont have classes, but have skill trees that allow the player choose his gameplay style).

Even thought the game is awesome, I believe that would be more fun for all of us Drova fans if there was more freedon of choice in this point. For me specially in the mage gameplay.

[LenoirM]

Originally posted by a small rabbit:

Originally posted by Zuvio:

Well, there is no magic class. There are no classes actually. Just you the adventurer. You spent learning points to get better in certain areas. You learn skills based on what weapon you want to wield. Being able to use magic at all is deeply incorporated in how this world works. So your critique, although valid, is kind of misplaced for this game.

EDIT: also, the title of your post, "bad magic system", is a very strong wording of finding a fault in this game when the game never pretended to have what you are critiquing in the first place.

The game DOES have a magic system though. One of your 3 main stats is mind, and its reasonable to assume that you would be able to raise it and play using magic given you find scrolls early and fairly often and their is dialogue talking about getting your own runestone.

The flaw is that without prior knowledge, players won't know that mind trainers cant be found until the later acts, and getting your own spells doesn't happen until over halfway through the game.

In that regard i would have to agree with the OP that it IS a bad magic system or at least somewhat poorly implemented. The devs appear to have wanted the player to focus on the weapon combat given the talents etc which is fine, but mind being one of your prowess stats can reasonably lead players to assume that they could play a "caster" style instead when its really more of a supplement to the weapons.

It's interesting to note that the game is advertised with its trailers showing spells right at the beginning, which makes me believe that the game would have a great magic system.

[LenoirM]

Originally posted by a small rabbit:

Originally posted by Zuvio:

"plays into building a mage" does not equal "having a mage class in the game", my point absolutely stands and there is no contradiction.

OP literally said "~snip~ I choose a spellcaster class. In Drova, there are spells and a kind of magic class, but its impossible to play as mage", so that is exactly what this discussion is about: disappointment that there is not a magic class in the game even though the game does not pretend to have a magic class.

I have no stake in this game, despite the fact I love it. But criticizing anything based on a trait/perk that is not even intended to be in the game is weird, you could even say, it super upsets me.

I really don't understand what you are trying to argue. There is literally an armor type in the game designed around using spells along with other focus/magic damage boosting foods and items. The OP's complaint was that you can't use magic from the beginning of the game, which is true, even though the game is setup for it later.

What that means is you need to save all your learning points until you get to a mind trainer to be able to increase your prowess to use better weapons to get by until you can actually use your own spells because you cant respec your main stats. Its a very awkward setup if you want to focus on magic later which the game lets you do and even has options for. I would know because that's exactly what i did, and i also felt disappointed by it.

My complaint was precisely that!

Until reach act 4, I was using a spear. And to be a little easier to fight, I spend about 15 LP on STR (so I had about 22 STR when reached act 4).
After that, I focused only in cast spells, even it was a bit tedious to wait the focus bar to replanish. So the final half of the game had a completly diferent gameplay in comparison with the first half. And for me it would be a lot more fun if I could cast spells since the begining.

[Zuvio]

Originally posted by LenoirM:

Originally posted by a small rabbit:

I really don't understand what you are trying to argue. There is literally an armor type in the game designed around using spells along with other focus/magic damage boosting foods and items. The OP's complaint was that you can't use magic from the beginning of the game, which is true, even though the game is setup for it later.

What that means is you need to save all your learning points until you get to a mind trainer to be able to increase your prowess to use better weapons to get by until you can actually use your own spells because you cant respec your main stats. Its a very awkward setup if you want to focus on magic later which the game lets you do and even has options for. I would know because that's exactly what i did, and i also felt disappointed by it.

My complaint was precisely that!

Until reach act 4, I was using a spear. And to be a little easier to fight, I spend about 15 LP on STR (so I had about 22 STR when reached act 4).
After that, I focused only in cast spells, even it was a bit tedious to wait the focus bar to replanish. So the final half of the game had a completly diferent gameplay in comparison with the first half. And for me it would be a lot more fun if I could cast spells since the begining.

Agreed.

Although in some weird way I did think it was kind of hilarious to go full mind on insane. I only took the 1st axe skill and got to base focus 45 so I could execute without fighting. I was running around like a chicken executing on cooldown which, without spending LP on strength, still hits really hard! Execute got me to CH4 with 100% LP into mind. Funny, but in a weird way...

[LenoirM]

Originally posted by Zuvio:

Originally posted by LenoirM:

My complaint was precisely that!

Until reach act 4, I was using a spear. And to be a little easier to fight, I spend about 15 LP on STR (so I had about 22 STR when reached act 4).
After that, I focused only in cast spells, even it was a bit tedious to wait the focus bar to replanish. So the final half of the game had a completly diferent gameplay in comparison with the first half. And for me it would be a lot more fun if I could cast spells since the begining.

Agreed.

Although in some weird way I did think it was kind of hilarious to go full mind on insane. I only took the 1st axe skill and got to base focus 45 so I could execute without fighting. I was running around like a chicken executing on cooldown which, without spending LP on strength, still hits really hard! Execute got me to CH4 with 100% LP into mind. Funny, but in a weird way...

May seams weird a axe fighter with a lot of MIND, but is this freedon that makes the game fun. You kind build a batlle axe mage! LOL

[Zuvio]

In the spirit of Oblivion.

[LenoirM]

Originally posted by Zuvio:

In the spirit of Oblivion.

One of Oblivions best features is the spell creation system. Its a shame Skyrim didnt do the same.

[amazingbeavis]

For me I played mostly melee, but in the late game I definitely did a lot more damage with spells. I did have a pretty high mind and with good base focus, potions and the spell to generate focus I didn't feel like I HAD to rely primarily on melee.

[Bennoni]

I tried to play a mage on my 3rd run (1st run didn't work out^^).
After chapter 3 I put everything in mind (reached 95 mind I believe incl. rings) and it felt like a battle mage eventually. A full mage in the traditional sense as we know it from every other game or D&D does indeed not exist.

For mage enthusiasts this might be a letdown, but generally I would say it is unwise to try to push a game into known boundaries, rather try to take it how it is and cherish the differences. I learnt this lesson when playing Morrowind because I thought why is this not like game XYZ, this is stupid blablabla, until it clicked and then I could learn to love it for what it is. It is beneficial to not always expect fixated things/mechanics. A lesson videogames taught me for life (well, hopefully at least haha).

[Sgt.JESUS]

Originally posted by Bennoni:

to try to push a game into known boundaries, rather try to take it how it is and cherish the differences. I learnt this lesson when playing Morrowind because I thought why is this not like game XYZ, this is stupid blablabla, until it clicked and then I could learn to love it for what it is. It is beneficial to not always expect fixated things/mechanics. A lesson videogames taught me for life (well, hopefully at least haha).

Oh man you nailed it, im seeing way more threads from people who want to change the core mechanics of games these days, not the case here, OP is just voicing his discontent so the next game has a more magic friendly start.

They want the devs to cather to every whim they have, people go on soulslike games and say that stamina is bad and the game would be better without it, go into base building and crafting games and want the whole thing to be automated so they wont be bothered to build anything, and so on.

Its mind boggling really, some adjusts and feedback are nice for the devs to get some idea of what could be improved, but trying to change the game basic mechanics is insane, and disrespectfull to the people who bought the game for what it is.

[Bennoni]

Yeah, true.
On the flipside, I can see where this is coming from.
It's just such an established convention nowadays that classes in RPGs, or fantasy fighting games as a whole, are divided into warrior, rogue, and mage. So people expect this from this genre, and if it lacks something it can be perceived as incomplete or imbalanced.

Videogame conventions, or let's rather say genre conventions, usually make sense but at the same time can hold creativity down. It's finding the equilibrium between giving players what they know and want, and forcing them into adventuring into the unknown and new. Surely, not an easy task I think :)

[Backstabber 2008 Homosapien Karl]

My issue with the magic system stems from the fact that you don't get access to it until you're most of the way through the game, and the fact that it's handed out so unceremoniously.

So many NPCs have magic, i.e. a runestone. You have to work hard to earn your runestone (I mean the character, not the player. You just progress the story, but your character has to do a lot of ♥♥♥♥ and prove themself several times before being given a rune). It feels off to me. Runestones are special, but everyone and their mother but you has one.

I only bring up Gothic because the game asks for such comparisons itself, but in Gothic, you have to earn your magic. But magic isn't something you see everyone using. It's more scarce and feels appropriately more rewarding, especially considering you have to deliberately go out of your way in pursuit of the pathways that will eventually grant you access to spells. It almost feels like a semi-secret easter egg sort of thing in Gothic, because you have to specifically strive for it.

It's fine to have magic be more common in Drova, but it just feels pretty bad to get it so late, when you can get it so early in Gothic. Even if you play Gothic blind, you'd still get access to magic earlier in the story than you do in Drova. This is an issue both because it forces you to play without magic for a majority of the game, and because by the time you get magic, half of the spells feel irrelevant, because other spells that you get access to at the exact same time are objectively so much better. There isn't proper progression.

[Dhomochevsky]

Originally posted by Sgt.JESUS:

Its only doable if you have previous knowledge of the game, i think Drova is a world where magic is rare, hard to achieve and to use, the druids are the only teachers and so on, its very powerfull, i used a single scroll of that fire pillar spell to clear the wolf cave early game, died a lot trying to get all the doggos in the spell area.

So i like the idea that spells are powerfull and only acquired late game, some runes like lightning storm are so powerfull it would break the game if avaiable too early, so that makes scrolls valuable too.

i do love that low magic setting (in books and so on)