Tier Units - Keep Old or Release?

[SP2244]

Since upkeep cost is high once start getting larger groups (have 3.5 now), should you release lower tier unit if have chance to buy higher tier? Will the lower Tier upgrade to higher Tier (that would be nice), hence no need to drop them and lose all investment in them. I wish the tower was free upkeep for unis, so could at least place them there. I have used a couple old units , still good, to collect wheat, etc. However, I just ran into many powerful units in the SW region and quickly realized my units have no chance if don't get better units !!

Hate to just discard the lower tier units, but gold upkeep is not good.... but what a waste, but need to upgrade next tier, so every battle with lower now is waste of battle .... not sure how this game works completely. Basically just sacrifice all lower units ? I am losing 10 units of gold per turn , selling some thing is just temp fix. not sustainable, same with mana conversion, need to get close to break even. Even upgrade in castle cost lots of gold to save you 3 per turn, so that is many turns to break even on that investment , then units cost more... so seems chasing your tail with that strategy. Is only solution to this game I have to go North where I hear are gold supplies?

I am trying to get best favor Audale, it is under one leader zone, but can't seem to get enough favor to get better units - and not seeing any missions listed anywhere to get more favor and nothing showing up in their region (bolder print on locations indicating quest,etc.).

Do you buy units from tower or locations, what is advantage, if any? I just heard to have any chance later you need highest units from Audale, so working that.

This game might already be over, accidentally upset circle in north, did not know I was in their territory so long, has white line in snow - come on, now ... use blue or red over white LOL, every other circle mage in good standing.

Thanks .... And again overall a very nice game!

PS one big improvement in this game would be if all units moved further - feel like I am hitting next turn 100x just to get units to move across board to get somewhere I need to go.... try to balance units speed, but in most parts of map move so slow per turn. I actually had to quit the other day, getting sleepy jut waiting for units to move across, was so bored, had to stop. And to mention all the time I go one way and have to turn all the way back due to river or run into circle territory....

[jxy0724]

Play more and you may find out which units are good enough to keep. Your gold upkeep problem is answered in your last post. You can teleport your stacks to save a lot of turns.

[ProblemSir]

Step by step:

1) First you need economy. Then you use it to build army. Your starting stack is more than enough to scure sources needed. If it does not for you, then it is the first step to improve.
2) Ideally, IMO, high priority should be finding the closest city (check if there is any interesting T3 unit / spell page) and farm rep with this city as quick as possible. Once you have high standaing with the city - recruit the units you need.
3) T1 units usually die at some point in the game (they usually have too few HP or too low stats to survive AoE damage from higher level enemies). So for me, this is the natural process. The longer the game lasts, the more T2 and T3 units I have and T1 units die or explore for me (I leave them at cities, so I have always access to them or leave as spies).
4) T2 units with high level and good buffs (glyphs, potions, lvl ups) can easly face T3 units. What is more, very often there is a lot of synergy between T2 and T3 units and you need to keep T2 to stay versatile.
5) Each city has something interesting to offer. The easiest way to level standing with the city is to build lodge which covers inns. Most inns build reputation with given city (you will know by crest on the inn building). You can boost it with specific spells (gold to reputation) and by doing quests for the city or killing enemies around it.
6) I am playing as Arti now and I found city with some Fire Elemental guy that I bought quite early (there were 2 inns I taped, so my rep was growing really fast). With this T3 unit clearing all places I need was piece of cake.
7) Very important is scouting, so you know who you are gonna face in coming weeks and what you need to succeed,

So, long story short:
If you cannot stand upkeep of T1 units, as you say 10gold/day, it means you are doing something wrong economy wise.
If you can afford T1 units next to other units, use them as spies, scouts and city chokepoints that let you make a purchase each week.
At worst let T1 untis die on battlefield, so they do something useful before they die :)

Good luck!

[sandman25dcsss]

T1 units become obsolete indeed, tier 2 units are fine all game, I have only a few tier 3 units. Eventually you will reach a point where you can hire tier 2 or even tier 3 units in one turn, then you can send all those units to die immediately and they don't cost you anything, next turn you repeat it.

[SP2244]

Originally posted by jxy0724:

Play more and you may find out which units are good enough to keep. Your gold upkeep problem is answered in your last post. You can teleport your stacks to save a lot of turns.

Have not used that yet, and just got it, so would not have changed anything up to this point... right now having to use all my mana to replace gold, so no extra mana to spend every turn for teleporting....

[SP2244]

Originally posted by sandman25dcsss:

T1 units become obsolete indeed, tier 2 units are fine all game, I have only a few tier 3 units. Eventually you will reach a point where you can hire tier 2 or even tier 3 units in one turn, then you can send all those units to die immediately and they don't cost you anything, next turn you repeat it.

I was thinking same thing, send them as fodder before I attack, but did not want to do that if another option exist.... so be it. In the SW ran into some very powerful units, makes me think I will need an army of tier 3 units to have any chance.

And I have a Circle Mage getting warning plotting against me .... the other ones 75%+ green ..... if had better units would push forward to try and take its main tower, but it is this mage I said has very strong units. I think I am like week 22 or so ..... may not have much choice soon.

[SP2244]

Originally posted by ProblemSir:

Step by step:

If you can afford T1 units next to other units, use them as spies, scouts and city chokepoints that let you make a purchase each week.
At worst let T1 untis die on battlefield, so they do something useful before they die :)

Good luck!

I was doing ok with all tier 1 units, much better than my 1st game attempt (went broke). So my gold and mana were both positive, doing well... then bought extra stack of units with new apprentice, but tier 2, all of sudden my gold started dropping fast ..... (and had 1 tier 3 unit). Then tried to use some of the other tier 1 to get plants and mine, help some, but finally ate up my whole pile of gold had before! I am only staying alive now due to selling some pumpkins, mining , and converting mana to gold, but requires me to balance at 100 % Mana scale... kind of in a death trap .... no choice I guess , start killing units.

[State Line Crosser]

Higher tier units cost more upkeep. Going from a stack of ones to threes is an extremely noticeable difference. I usually rush to some form of free upkeep e.g. follower spell/rune, follower level up option (with mod only), or slaves.

There is a room extension that suspends upkeep for units in your domain. Also, if you are trying to raise your rep with a city you have other options. The local inn will give 2 rep a day if in your domain, there is a mentalism spell that turns mana into rep, and failing all that you can leave monster spawners alive to get the meager rep from killing them.

[SP2244]

Originally posted by State Line Crosser:

Higher tier units cost more upkeep. Going from a stack of ones to threes is an extremely noticeable difference. I usually rush to some form of free upkeep e.g. follower spell/rune, follower level up option (with mod only), or slaves.

There is a room extension that suspends upkeep for units in your domain. Also, if you are trying to raise your rep with a city you have other options. The local inn will give 2 rep a day if in your domain, there is a mentalism spell that turns mana into rep, and failing all that you can leave monster spawners alive to get the meager rep from killing them.

Hmmm room extension might be nice, have not seen that option yet, week 30 roughly. I just moved my tower for 1st time and it was a big move since one of the circle is at war with me!

And even with my best tier 2 elements, their buffs and 2 extra units they get, destroyed me so quickly, had no chance. I have been beating 90% of battles, but once hit their units it was clear I have no chance .... but without gold game over, and now my many is getting low, so I doubt I will be able to finish the game (or get even close at this point).... This is my 2nd try, and at this point , the money management is taking all the fun out of the game for me, so likely will stop playing it all together..... such potential for tactical game!

They made 2 big errors in my opinion, gold upkeep cost (which forces me to play a easier combat game, need a slider, indep. of combat difficulty) and huge spike in circle when attack you... not even close battles .... went from winning 90% to 90% loses and no gold left over to perhaps buy a different type of troop for the one attacking me, so stuck with what I have... I know people just go online and cheat in sense vs. best tactics. They find the one unit that turns the tide, one place to put tower to get all gold need, the one race to get, the one type unit against this boss ..... it is just a recipe, not a tactical game. Big mistake is not letting every unit upgrade to Tier 3 so not having to ditch units later, that would provide many ways to evolve (kind of the AOW3 method). If game was balanced properly there would be many ways to win, every race could beat them all.... it really needs to be re-balanced! And if not done soon, AOW4 is coming out soon and people will leave this and go there ..... TBD. Overall really like the graphics and general combat ... it reminded me of AOW3 which is why I was so excited.

I have so many strategy 4x, tactical type games where you manage the money (Total WH3 good example), but it only is problem in beginning of game , not crippling once past midpoint of game.....

PS Thanks for you help, this is not directed at you in any way, just saying so disappointed in mid game, which will likely prevent me from investing any more time .... but what I read, it only gets worse once another mage declares war on you.....

[State Line Crosser]

Originally posted by SP2244:

Hmmm room extension might be nice, have not seen that option yet, week 30 roughly. I just moved my tower for 1st time and it was a big move since one of the circle is at war with me!

Are you playing on balanced? It's rough for first timers. By the week you are at you should have already moved your tower a few times. I like to put it on mountains as it keeps some of the riff raff away. Have you unlocked room extensions at all? Or you've just not seen the specific one? It might be the illthanin(sp?) chamber which is mentalism locked.

Originally posted by SP2244:

but without gold game over, and now my many is getting low, so I doubt I will be able to finish the game (or get even close at this point).... This is my 2nd try, and at this point , the money management is taking all the fun out of the game for me, so likely will stop playing it all together..... such potential for tactical game!

I restarted about a half a dozen times before I finished my first game. You aren't the first person to complain about upkeep. I get the complaint about having to learn "the strats" that people on here use being unpalatable. For your specific problem though, all you really need to do is play artificer for the glyphs or go mentalist for the spell. You can get two pages of mentalist every plathrough via seven keeps. Either one of those will deal with your immediate problem and let you discover future solutions on your own. Alternatively, you can download the reroll mod and choose your level up rewards instead of RNG. You can have followers around lvl 4 onwards IIRC.

Originally posted by SP2244:

They made 2 big errors in my opinion, gold upkeep cost (which forces me to play a easier combat game, need a slider, indep. of combat difficulty) and huge spike in circle when attack you...

There are quite a few options now in the sliders. Combat (tactical map) difficulty, map wealth, game progression time (campaign map difficulty essentially), and you can modify the frequency of targeted attacks on your tower.

Originally posted by SP2244:

Big mistake is not letting every unit upgrade to Tier 3 so not having to ditch units later, that would provide many ways to evolve (kind of the AOW3 method). If game was balanced properly there would be many ways to win, every race could beat them all.... it really needs to be re-balanced!

Leveling units up in tiers has been suggested before as well. Devs were positive of the idea but unless they said something since I wouldn't count on it. As for balance, that's all pretty subjective. Not to mention dependent on what difficulty you are playing on.

Originally posted by SP2244:

so disappointed in mid game, which will likely prevent me from investing any more time .... but what I read, it only gets worse once another mage declares war on you.....

I'm not looking at your situation but I imagine you've made too many mistakes to really undo them at the point you're at. I'd suggest that you start over and take note of the choices you made that lead you there but you are in charge of your own entertainment.

[sandman25dcsss]

Yes, I am sorry to say this, but it is on you. If you missed combat difficulty level in game start options and moved tower for the first time on week 30 instead of week 3, I am pretty sure you don't read all text on screen which is preventing you from learning the game and thus understanding enough to enjoy the game.

[Beldr]

Earth shaper, elven ranger, and combat balloon are the only T2s worth keeping once you have access to T3s.

[sandman25dcsss]

Originally posted by Beldr:

Earth shaper, elven ranger, and combat balloon are the only T2s worth keeping once you have access to T3s.

Slavers, goblin shamans, bears, moleriders, javelin throwers, many undead (including tier 1 mages) etc. Some of them have abilities to make them better than tier 3 units.