The Balance Thread

[Gorwe]

Yeah, here we go.

[Heindal]

Any school has pretty cool spells for the early. Get some experience with game, than judge it again.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Heindal:

Any school has pretty cool spells for the early. Get some experience with game, than judge it again.

Yes, but some more than others. This also depends highly on your surroundings too. Given the chance, Earth can overrun most "low magic" zones easily with those Golems. For example.

I wouldn't be writing this if I didn't feel up to it. Who writes paragraphs like those without any experience.

[Killer29687]

@gorwe any chance you can do the other school spells as well? Funny enough this post gives me a lot of answers you cannot find info on (status effects/ room extension/apprentice starting army

Also practicality of some of these quests aka earth lore can only give copper/sky ore

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Killer29687:

@gorwe any chance you can do the other school spells as well? Funny enough this post gives me a lot of answers you cannot find info on (status effects/ room extension/apprentice starting army

Also practicality of some of these quests aka earth lore can only give copper/sky ore

Yes, but it takes time. I will do them all. Then go over Crafting as well.

[Killer29687]

Thanks, planning on making a guide for some misc tips I discovered while playing however reading these posts make me confirm some things I writing down, earth lore can only give copper/ sky only right?

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Killer29687:

Thanks, planning on making a guide for some misc tips I discovered while playing however reading these posts make me confirm some things I writing down, earth lore can only give copper/ sky only right?

I just tested it. It really depends on the area. Most areas are Copper / Sky Iron, true. The only exception to this, from the starting locations, is the Misty Coast. It gives Sky Iron + Gold. This is what I consider to be "Tier 2" of Earth Lore. Tier 2+ is Gold + Corrupted Adamantium and the only place where I could find this is the Darkvale(area around Castle Meldec: south of Sevenkeeps ; east of Misty Coast). And the best yields are in the "demon areas": two "gors". Both Regan(North) and Uram(South) Gor give you Pure Adamantium + Crystals(rare crafting mats + mana). So, let me put it this way so it is more visible:

Earth Lore:

T1: Mtn Copper + Sky Iron (most of the world)
T2: Sky Iron + Gold (Misty Coast, Coldmark, maybe somewhere else as well)
T2+: Gold + Corrupted Adamantium (Darkvale)
T3: Pure Adamantium + Crystals (Regan Gor, Uram Gor)

(it still don't make it viable except in top heavy scenarios. They should really merge it with Reset Exploitation)

[Gorwe]

I will write about Enchantment later. Tldr: awesome school, one can hardly go wrong with this one.

[Killer29687]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Originally posted by Killer29687:

Thanks, planning on making a guide for some misc tips I discovered while playing however reading these posts make me confirm some things I writing down, earth lore can only give copper/ sky only right?

I just tested it. It really depends on the area. Most areas are Copper / Sky Iron, true. The only exception to this, from the starting locations, is the Misty Coast. It gives Sky Iron + Gold. This is what I consider to be "Tier 2" of Earth Lore. Tier 2+ is Gold + Corrupted Adamantium and the only place where I could find this is the Darkvale(area around Castle Meldec: south of Sevenkeeps ; east of Misty Coast). And the best yields are in the "demon areas": two "gors". Both Regan(North) and Uram(South) Gor give you Pure Adamantium + Crystals(rare crafting mats + mana). So, let me put it this way so it is more visible:

Earth Lore:

T1: Mtn Copper + Sky Iron (most of the world)
T2: Sky Iron + Gold (Misty Coast, Coldmark, maybe somewhere else as well)
T2+: Gold + Corrupted Adamantium (Darkvale)
T3: Pure Adamantium + Crystals (Regan Gor, Uram Gor)

(it still don't make it viable except in top heavy scenarios. They should really merge it with Reset Exploitation)

Damn… that now conflicts me on if earth is really needed for my rune maker run, finite plant sources does mean only a greater amount of ore but if you start in the middle map your best bet to get corrupt is darkvale

As far as I know, you get t2 earth from the dwarf well and you can get the t4 from isgrimm, originally I thought since that covers the two main spells I want (pocket dimension and instant castle) I could skip earth right off

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Killer29687:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

I just tested it. It really depends on the area. Most areas are Copper / Sky Iron, true. The only exception to this, from the starting locations, is the Misty Coast. It gives Sky Iron + Gold. This is what I consider to be "Tier 2" of Earth Lore. Tier 2+ is Gold + Corrupted Adamantium and the only place where I could find this is the Darkvale(area around Castle Meldec: south of Sevenkeeps ; east of Misty Coast). And the best yields are in the "demon areas": two "gors". Both Regan(North) and Uram(South) Gor give you Pure Adamantium + Crystals(rare crafting mats + mana). So, let me put it this way so it is more visible:

Earth Lore:

T1: Mtn Copper + Sky Iron (most of the world)
T2: Sky Iron + Gold (Misty Coast, Coldmark, maybe somewhere else as well)
T2+: Gold + Corrupted Adamantium (Darkvale)
T3: Pure Adamantium + Crystals (Regan Gor, Uram Gor)

(it still don't make it viable except in top heavy scenarios. They should really merge it with Reset Exploitation)

Damn… that now conflicts me on if earth is really needed for my rune maker run, finite plant sources does mean only a greater amount of ore but if you start in the middle map your best bet to get corrupt is darkvale

As far as I know, you get t2 earth from the dwarf well and you can get the t4 from isgrimm, originally I thought since that covers the two main spells I want (pocket dimension and instant castle) I could skip earth right off

You get T2 earth from the dwarf well? Care to explain this part?

The best part? In order to get those from the Darkvale, you need to convert stuff like Lenya and such(weekly flora). Not to mention the issue that Arti has(lack of Green Essence). In short, I don't find Earth Lore particularly useful. Except for Golems.

[State Line Crosser]

Originally posted by Killer29687:

Damn… that now conflicts me on if earth is really needed for my rune maker run

You have options as artificer for late game resource generation. Nodes are not an issue unless you plan on using summon golem.

[Gorwe]

ENCHANTMENT: Now this one, this one is one of my favorites. It gives you a completely alternate playstyle that might as well be a crafting choice. It is completely separate from every crafting, even if I think that it benefits the most from Arti and it gives the most to Necro. Let's get to it:

APPRENTICE: Freeze Water + Summon Jelly + Awareness + Missile Resist

* Freeze Water: This one I am not a fan of. Idk, it just feels like a fluff. Maybe if it got reworked into "Freeze" and it either froze a stack or an AoE Water Freeze? Idk, freezing just a single hex feels ... pointless. And as a very minimal gain overall. It is a starting spell, but at least it don't cost much(20).

* Jelly: Now, this summon is divisive and it's mostly because Wisp exists. With that said, Wisp isn't inherently better. Just tankier, somewhat. Jelly benefits from Kennels AND from Fantastic bonuses! It is also faster and has +6 Dmg vs Flying. So, it and Wisp are more like Sidegrades. I feel like the Forester(Jelly has it) probably opens it up tactically. Overall, not a bad unit for a start.

* Awareness: Gives ALL your units +3 Sight Range at a bargain price of 2 upkeep. This is a freebie and oh so useful. You can also combine it with dedicated scout units or, perhaps, Jelly and have tabs on almost entire map. This is huge, but in an understated way.

* Missile Resist: Flat 50% Dmg Redux vs Missiles. What can I say? It is a niche spell. And as such is super powerful exactly when you need it. Affects the entire stack btw. The old reliable.

Overall: Going secondary Enchantment? Not a bad choice, but I personally wouldn't. Not only are there better secondary choices, but you also waste a LOT of Enchantment potential.

EXPERT: Arcane Library + Bind Summon + Magic Scrying + Summon Phantom Warrior

Primary Stack: 1x Phantom Warrior + 1x Jelly <- this is a VERY good stack(maybe if it were x Jelly?). Phantom Warriors combine tankiness and alternate damage(white) and Jelly give you good, very mobile damage. If you should start either in physical areas or in Misty Coast(♥♥♥♥ just gets rekt by White), you would have a very easy time.

* Arcane Library: A better version of the Study, even the tooltip mentions that. The upgrades are costly and are usually 3B + 1x, but the potential is, honestly, endless. I am kind of miffed that it don't give 10 Research, but 8. You can get additional +10 Research or +10 Proficiency or you can give your summons +20% damage(at the cost of 20% hp, but meh), additional level up options, see Garrisons ... wow! This room is superceeded only by another from Enchantment. Just go 2x Study + 2x Library. Stuff will never again be the same!

* Bind Summon: Gives an unit with "Summon" descriptor +1 Speed, +1 Willpower and +1 Armor. Feels kinda weak, maybe it should be +2? Then again, it costs 1 mana upkeep, one can hardly complain. What I'm trying to say is that this one isn't anything special.

* Magic Scrying: Oh boy! Here comes another big one! This is what Sniff Gold can only hope to be. You can locate anything important. And, if you have enough Mana / Proficiency, you can chain cast something else afterwards(idk, Teleport or Rep+?). This can be an instant win, if conditions agree. Just like Awareness buff, this is super understated, but super powerful too.

* Phantom Warrior: I already praised their early / mid performance enough, I think. I will only mention that they cost 3 Mana Upkeep(kinda expensive, but you don't need that many of them). The definite Ench mech becomes visible: you ignore gold! And that is going to become painfully obvious in the next tier.

Overall: A bunch of super useful spells backed up by a REALLY GOOD stack? Yes! It is super worth it to go Primary Enchantment. But going Master Enchantment is EVEN BETTER, believe it or not(because it also opens up the Grandmaster Enchantment)!

MASTER: Insight + Summon Medusae + Summoning Room + Wind Walking

* Insight: This is, honestly, kinda meh. 2 : 1 Mana : Research ratio isn't that good(even with Ench). Probably should be 1 : 1. Further exarcebated by the presence of Library.

* Medusae: Wow! Just wow! Break the game, will you? Melee variant is a 1st strike powerhouse that can STILL STUN while the ranged is just super powerful. 3 mana upkeep(basically free) ... what's not to like? Summoning mechanics. Sometimes you get the melee variant and sometimes the ranged one. It's not clear at all what affects this outcome.

* Room: Probably should be 10 Free Mana Upkeep, but meh. Even with 5, it is super powerful. The room extensions are also quite powerful and, should you spam the Summoning Circle, ♥♥♥♥ gets crazy. Phantom Guard is FREE PHANTOM WARRIORS! Just amazing! O.o

* Wind Walking: Allows you to traverse ANY terrain(probably Lava too). You still move with Terrain Penalty(don't make a lot of sense, but ok). Just 1 cast / stack at 3 mana upkeep. Basically free. And allows you to cheat with movement without Artifice.

Overall: Quite amazing! Medusae + Room makes you want to desire this by itself and then there are very useful, nice gimmicks like Insight and Wind Walking. And it allows further crazyness via Grandmaster. 2x Ench? YES, PLEASE!

GRANDMASTER: Buff Summons + Freeze Stack + Summon Shaper Golem + True Teleport

* Buff Summons: Could be a tad better, the cost is super high, after all(12 upkeep!). Still 20% better Armor, Damage and Willpower is nothing to laugh at. I'd probably add 20% Speed too. Isn't necessary though. Want summons? GET THIS, YOU DOLT!

* Freeze Stack: Now, this doesn't feel like a Grandmaster Spell at all. Sure, its strategic wonder is not to be underestimated(you basically become immune to raiding etc), but ... combined with how lukewarm the Freeze Water is ... I can't shake off the possibility of a merger. By itself? Super good.

* Shaper Golem: Because, why not? Why not get this nonsense and then proceed to superbuff it? The question is: could you get TWO of these via Earth? Buff Summons? Bind Summon? Oh. My . God!

* True Teleport: Annoyed by how Teleport works? Want to just "ENERGIZE!"? And BREAK THE GAME in process? Enjoy yourself! It is costly(80 Mana), but with a bit of ingenuity(Jelly + Awareness?), you can work around this even before ~96 proficiency! As long as you have ok stacks, you become UNSTOPPABLE!

FINAL JUDGMENT: What can I say? A game changing choice, what's not to like(this is how the choices are supposed to work, imo)? It's probably the best to go 2x Ench. And just ENJOY YOURSELF! But really! As Sandal would say: Enchantment!

[State Line Crosser]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

* Shaper Golem: Because, why not? Why not get this nonsense and then proceed to superbuff it? The question is: could you get TWO of these via Earth? Buff Summons? Bind Summon? Oh. My . God.

You can get a lot more than two with earth. Although, the last patch changed their designation to exclude summon if I read it correctly.

[Killer29687]

Honestly really happy I chose enchantment prim (chose mentalist 1 cuz I didn’t read b4 selecting that random library rewards could be mentalist page number X or Y while the guaranteed is just the next mentalist tier. (Really meh)

Only drawback is the game decision in random unlocking of spells, gotta love not having transmute till week 6 or so. Also the whole trying to keep them topped up hp wise >.>

Anyways gorwe any chance you will do a tier list for best buildings? Kinda sucks there’s no exact info for all the extensions for every room thus you can’t plan

(Ps I would be so bold to say enchantment has made the game enjoyable again due to the fact I can ignore some bs from using other schools)

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by State Line Crosser:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

* Shaper Golem: Because, why not? Why not get this nonsense and then proceed to superbuff it? The question is: could you get TWO of these via Earth? Buff Summons? Bind Summon? Oh. My . God.

You can get a lot more than two with earth. Although, the last patch changed their designation to exclude summon if I read it correctly.

Huh, you can get more? Guess they didn't bother including an XOR case for them. Given the state of Earth, they probably shouldn't - leave it be. And if it's so, perhaps Ench should get another Titan? What does Undergast use?

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Killer29687:

Honestly really happy I chose enchantment prim (chose mentalist 1 cuz I didn’t read b4 selecting that random library rewards could be mentalist page number X or Y while the guaranteed is just the next mentalist tier. (Really meh)

Only drawback is the game decision in random unlocking of spells, gotta love not having transmute till week 6 or so. Also the whole trying to keep them topped up hp wise >.>

Anyways gorwe any chance you will do a tier list for best buildings? Kinda sucks there’s no exact info for all the extensions for every room thus you can’t plan

(Ps I would be so bold to say enchantment has made the game enjoyable again due to the fact I can ignore some bs from using other schools)

Eventually, I could. But the spells and the crafting are first.

Enchantment is really good and fun, enjoy yourself(I hate the random choice of research). Though ... what kind of bs did you have in mind?