So why some people think necromancr is underpowered?

[Vvv]

I played artificer and it's probably my favourite. Not gonna play alchemists because it's not my style to use consumables.

Just tried necromancer and I find him very strong. It's probably the easiest one imo. You rely on mana which is easier to get than money, it's easy to catch 1 or 2 tier 3 souls and make really strong units like draugr giant with 50% life steal for ex...And it's super easy to win fights because you can raise undead that the AI will gladly smack.

And even if you don't find tier 3 souls you will find tier 2 souls that give a bonus of 20hp which makes the tier 1 skeletons tank more than tier 3 keepers.

If you lack ingredients, simply buy inexpensive glyphs that give 3 purple or orange.

[Hustred]

Another great necromancer feature is undead "officer" perk called "eery overlord" that give +3 death damage for each undead in stack. You have big stasks fast and your t1 mages deal 30 aoe damage with first curse casted and 45 dmg with second cast on same targets. My t1 aoudamage t3 creatures with this perk

[valiant43e]

Overall, I wouldn't say Necromancer's underpowered. Undead can hit really hard afterall.
The problem is -100% vulnerability to White damage. Because of it, some categories of enemies are very hard to beat. Would be nice to either reduce this invulnerability or to add invulnerability to Death to every unit that deals White damage. This will even the odds.

[Jimib4158]

i still say the extra army slot makes up for any other weakness, just drop a paly in there

[Supply Side Jesus]

Many people correctly understand that huge resistance penalties all undead units have are too big of a drawback. Can you make it work? Sure, but you are starting from behind.

[VoiD]

No healing early on, spending all mana just to sustain weak units instead of actually using it to buff regular units into OP/broken status with 100% resistances and the like, and innate resistance penalties, which are fine and a good mechanic IMO, but when put in contrast with the other mages getting invulnerable status instead it really looks bad.

Necromancer can work just fine, it seems like it's just that the other mages can trivialize all content in all difficulty levels with ease.

[MadDjinn]

Some simple balancing would make it work a bit better.

If artificers needed spell pages for glyph or artefact making (more pages for higher tier stuff, with some items as generic), it'd open up major changes to them and slowly make them powerful over a game. Not to mention more flavour. It should cut down on them being able to full swap damage types and use necromancer powers better than the dead guys.

Necromancers should have options in post battle munching of bodies. Why is it only when you're in a fight that you can eat the dead? Make it happen post battle for ghouls, walking dead/etc line and they become better.

The death spells need some tweaking. The one that converts a mortal to a walking dead should also carry the skills over. Workers are the most obvious reason for that.

[Mindeveler]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von VoiD:

No healing early on, spending all mana just to sustain weak units instead of actually using it to buff regular units into OP/broken status with 100% resistances and the like

Ehhhhh... where did you find early game buffs that give you "100% resistances and the like"?

Do people even use spell buffs? Their maintenance is damn expensive. And most of them provide rather small effects.
E.g. 2 mana for +3 armor for a single unit is the same as an entire t2 summon cost-wise.

[Jimib4158]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Supply Side Jesus:

Many people correctly understand that huge resistance penalties all undead units have are too big of a drawback. Can you make it work? Sure, but you are starting from behind.

NOT where you start that matters my lord, but where you finish

[HozzMidnight]

I am only playing on Explorer difficulty. I won a game as Alchemist starting in Goldenfields and with Artificer starting in Draycott. Looking for early game Necro tips.

I had almost all Human troops for my Alchemist run. Once I realized how powerful sacred water, eagle spirit and sealed elemental were the game became trivial by mid game when I could basically make more than I needed to ever use. I think the only non human I used late game was Elven Rangers and Goblin Shamans. Paladin was my go to once I unlocked that room. Their res upon victory ability was very handy as I could auto resolve almost every fight with no casualties.

For the Artificer run I had mostly dwarves but also some humans later, specifically Keepers and the Priestess'. Earth Armor spell is ridiculously OP and you get it on your first apprentice at level 1 and Earth Shapers and Pyromancers can also get it. Lots of nice glyph choices at every tier and being able to put them back in inventory for just 9 mana is great. Once you get to Adamantium, the glyphs are easier to make than any of the other tiers. Much easier. And there are some ridiculously OP combos. Vampire + Rhino is what I used for melee troops and I really didn't have to do anything else.

Starting a new campaign with a Necromancer and it seems like the weakest of the three by far. What am I missing or doing wrong? The no healing is killing me. My T1 units have a shelf life of maybe 3 battles or I am constantly micromanaging units to get wounded ones out and fresh ones in. This does not seem sustainable as I am already struggling with it and I am just at the first large Allfire node.

Mana upkeep is killing me, my slider is almost all mana something I never had to do with the other two classes. I did get the Undead Healer ability on my Mage it seems like you'd need half the army to have that to make it keep up with attrition.

[Malware Mal]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mindeveler:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von VoiD:

No healing early on, spending all mana just to sustain weak units instead of actually using it to buff regular units into OP/broken status with 100% resistances and the like

Ehhhhh... where did you find early game buffs that give you "100% resistances and the like"?

Do people even use spell buffs? Their maintenance is damn expensive. And most of them provide rather small effects.
E.g. 2 mana for +3 armor for a single unit is the same as an entire t2 summon cost-wise.

Artificer in Dwarf mountains starting. Earth Shapers start with 50% phy resist and have an spell on upgrade that stacks with it. Pyromancers, also from dwarf city give 100% elemental resist. Dwarf units get free gold on upgrade with gold affinity meaning you can literally start pumping out endless t1 units to just widdle anything thats to big.

Wisp and Shapers become tanks immune to all physical and elemental attacks and dwarf units already have massive armor and hps compared to other units so even with 50% phy they're better t1 tanks than any unit other race.

Also, buffs are amazing. You can't use them as Necro since you're mana gets eaten up by units, but everyone else can. All that mana goes to buffing and debuffing armies.

Resist Elements: 25% phy and elemental resist
Missile Resistance: 50% missile Resistance! Stacks with Resist and other resist so archers and spells throwers are no longer a threat.
Confusion: All enemy units do minimal damage with attacks.

Demons and undead giving you trouble.
Righteous: +6 vs Demons and Undead
Holy Weapons: All attacks are now white. Now those t1 and t2 immune to all physical and elemental damage deal absurd damage to undead and the resist will allow you to easily tank demon hellfire as you steal the forges.

Yes, Necro can use these spells, but odds are they won't have the mana to use them since it's tied up in units or they don't have the spell page since they start with just Necro pages...and I've played them all. Necro... spells kind of suck.

Corpse Looting is fun for everyone, but Zombie Curse only effects one unit at a time. I'd trade that for a mass global for like 50% or something zombie chance in my domain or even 25% for everyone everywhere. Plague combined with Nor's Curse will give -75% on the enemy but that's a world spell and at least 2 undead mages to cast it on them, assuming they don't cast Nor's Blessing to give your units death damage to take advantage of it. Yes this is powerful but you still won't win a shootout shoot out 1 on 1 with a white spell caster even unbuffed.

So necro players, start in Gilly for +1 early shot from town and push north to get the tomb landmark. Your undead will naturally have huge resist to necro damage and you can easily push in with physical based skellys and archers backed by wisps. With landmark, now all undead get undying and will come back at end of battle. Swarm away.

Also Gilly gives you access to Orc Slavers and torture chamber gives great boosts to slaves, but EVERYONE should be using Slavers. That sounds terrible to say but the slavery mechanic is SO broken and strong.

[Mindeveler]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Malware Mal:

Artificer in Dwarf mountains starting.

The conversation was about spell buffs, not earth shapers.

[Hustred]

Playing necro on impossible the only problem was fight for first allfire source and fight against first circle tower.

You can get healing by finding random artifact, lvl up t1 mage to lvl 5, on apprentice lvl up etc, If you have any problems just craft a new ghouls to tank for you, it's fine to lose them when you keep mages alive. Undead are much tankier then goblins on starting humans.

Craft at least 1 t2 wraith they are amazing, ethereal so phys resist is 50% and 100 hp. They are the best tanks at start by far. Send wisps to loot high lvl locations(preferably demonic) for t3 souls.

I started with guarding/death in orcish land to the west combo very good. Guardian allows you to kill high lvl undead easy with a few casts of holy weapon, death march is one of the best spells in the game when you got some healing, gifting you gold that you don't need for city rep is also cool. In like 8 weeks you can stomp the map with 8 units in stack and t3 units. Haunted Armor with life steal soul carry you through easy, they have 2 time more health then paladins and better melee stats.

[Sonnenbank]

Its funny how people have absolute statements in a game that is out for only a few days....

Saying: this "Hero" or that "Hero" is op or needs a buff when nobody yet entierly understands how to play the game is just ridiculous....

you can start making claims about things being op or too weak when you have beaten the game with all 3 Mages on highest difficulty each at least several times with different approaches.

before that you have not enough knowledge to make absolut statements.

you might think something is op or underpowerd but its very likley you simply dont understand every aspect of the game yet

[Mindeveler]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sonnenbank:

Its funny how people have absolute statements in a game that is out for only a few days....

Well, tbf, this game's isn't exactly Pathfinder or smth like that where there are dozens of classes, hundreds of items, feats and spells that take weeks or even months to learn. And to build up your AC or AB or DC you have to combine dozens of different (sacred/inherent/competence/luck/insight/morale/enhancement/size/meal/etc.) buffs provided by a mix of items/archetype feats/spells and so on.

CoE has pretty simple system of units' stats. It's not hard to come to conclusions regarding what is op and who needs a buff just after a couple of weeks of playing.

[Malware Mal]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mindeveler:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Malware Mal:

Artificer in Dwarf mountains starting.

The conversation was about spell buffs, not earth shapers.

To cool to read, I get it. Have fun