Just wondering, why do circle mages always get at least 2 medusas to defend their tower?

[Jimib4158]

Maybe im wrong, but ive NEVER found such a room addition.

Thats kinda bogus he has a tower room i can never get

[primetide_dev]

That has lore reasons actually (they were given to the mages by Shar of the isles) - you will find however, that Circle mages simply do not play by your rules. They are not supposed to be your equals, but (at first) vastly more powerful entities.

[PrawnWonton]

Originally posted by primetide_dev:

That has lore reasons actually (they were given to the mages by Shar of the isles) - you will find however, that Circle mages simply do not play by your rules. They are not supposed to be your equals, but (at first) vastly more powerful entities.

The Circle Mages not playing by the same rules as the player is a massive source of consternation.
It could be forgivable if the AI wasn't as dumb as a bag of hammers. A couple unique units, sure. But they essentially have cheat codes. Map hack, no upkeep, unlimited funds, can spawn stacks of high level units out of thin air, no diplomatic consequences, etc., it is just lame. Any strategy or tactics goes right out the window when entire stacks spawn from nothing. There is no possibility of economic pressure, or scorched earth tactics, or even using terrain to your advantage when the laws the world are literally suspended in their favor.

It just makes it tedious, and kills any replayability.

Which is sad, this game is so close to being so awesome, but this is a major thing that holds it back.

[f.floz]

I mean if you think about it circle mages are the closest material representations of gods in this game. They are mearely collecting ressources and using you for their goals or just to play with you. So the idea that they can « make units come from nowhere » does not seem gamebreaking.

Regarding your point on denying them ressources etc i feel like you have a solid point, it is true that it feels like you are powerless in that regard or that your actions do not influence how well they are doing like other games. Yet again coming back to my first point as they are pratically god they don’t care much about a few gold or things like that they are already well established and recognized/feared by their peers and as you can understand going through the game the map you are playing on is but one of their playgrounds. It is not like a game of civ where everyone is a human civilization so we are on the same terms and loosing meaning the end of your civilization.
Now maybe the dev would have a better answer but that’s what i got from my experience of this game

[PrawnWonton]

Originally posted by f.floz:

I mean if you think about it circle mages are the closest material representations of gods in this game. They are mearely collecting ressources and using you for their goals or just to play with you. So the idea that they can « make units come from nowhere » does not seem gamebreaking.

Regarding your point on denying them ressources etc i feel like you have a solid point, it is true that it feels like you are powerless in that regard or that your actions do not influence how well they are doing like other games. Yet again coming back to my first point as they are pratically god they don’t care much about a few gold or things like that they are already well established and recognized/feared by their peers and as you can understand going through the game the map you are playing on is but one of their playgrounds. It is not like a game of civ where everyone is a human civilization so we are on the same terms and loosing meaning the end of your civilization.
Now maybe the dev would have a better answer but that’s what i got from my experience of this game

That is just a poor justification to settle for having a terrible AI. Couldn't be bothered to have an engaging AI that plays the game, that the player can actually influence, just give it cheat codes and call it a day. Complete artificial "difficulty".

[AeneasXI]

Originally posted by PrawnWonton:

That is just a poor justification to settle for having a terrible AI. Couldn't be bothered to have an engaging AI that plays the game, that the player can actually influence, just give it cheat codes and call it a day. Complete artificial "difficulty".

Most of these type of games have even less of an Ai as this game has. This is a Heroes of Might and Magic type game. Kings Bounty another prominent game in the genre literally just has stacks of enemies sitting on places doing nothing until you attack them yourself.

This game goes further than most of the genre veterans in that respect.

The Circle mages are supposed to be boss enemies not equal factions you fight. The main games focus is not the circle mages it is growing, surviving, questing in the world and the Circle Mages try to wipe you out when you get stronger and stronger or get too close for comfort to them. The victory conditions reflect that as well. You don't even have to beat all the Circle Mages to win the game there are 6 different winning conditions and you need 3 of those to win the game and beating the circle mages is just one of them.

[Jimib4158]

Originally posted by primetide_dev:

That has lore reasons actually (they were given to the mages by Shar of the isles) - you will find however, that Circle mages simply do not play by your rules. They are not supposed to be your equals, but (at first) vastly more powerful entities.

fair enough ....the grandeur of being a circle mage i guess

[Jimib4158]

Originally posted by f.floz:

I mean if you think about it circle mages are the closest material representations of gods in this game. They are mearely collecting ressources and using you for their goals or just to play with you. So the idea that they can « make units come from nowhere » does not seem gamebreaking.

yeah seems to be the Devs point, dont like it, but its fair enough, im against an opponent with unlimited resources and abilities :/
working as intended

[Celeborn]

Originally posted by PrawnWonton:

Originally posted by primetide_dev:

That has lore reasons actually (they were given to the mages by Shar of the isles) - you will find however, that Circle mages simply do not play by your rules. They are not supposed to be your equals, but (at first) vastly more powerful entities.

The Circle Mages not playing by the same rules as the player is a massive source of consternation.
It could be forgivable if the AI wasn't as dumb as a bag of hammers. A couple unique units, sure. But they essentially have cheat codes. Map hack, no upkeep, unlimited funds, can spawn stacks of high level units out of thin air, no diplomatic consequences, etc., it is just lame. Any strategy or tactics goes right out the window when entire stacks spawn from nothing. There is no possibility of economic pressure, or scorched earth tactics, or even using terrain to your advantage when the laws the world are literally suspended in their favor.

It just makes it tedious, and kills any replayability.

Which is sad, this game is so close to being so awesome, but this is a major thing that holds it back.

I do agree that there should be something that could hinder them. Examples being there are lot of times where events pop up that gives details on what the mages are doing in the area. Often times we can help or interfere with that. An easy example is ingrim (the dwarf smith) his AI is a fiend at getting all the mining nodes and can ask you for ore tribute. I like this behavior in him and other mages and would be cool to see that if we interfere in his mining that there is some sign that we are effecting him besides making it closer to him declaring war. I will say I am glad that each mage does seem to have different behaviors and even how they place towers and stuff and would be interesting to see interactions we can do towards them that would have something influence them. The only thing that I haven't tried since I didn't get fast enough and haven't been to the landmark in other playthroughs is with Gor who is collecting the dragon bones I am not sure if we get there soon enough if it will have an effect on him besides just making him angry

[dontplease]

Originally posted by PrawnWonton:

Originally posted by primetide_dev:

That has lore reasons actually (they were given to the mages by Shar of the isles) - you will find however, that Circle mages simply do not play by your rules. They are not supposed to be your equals, but (at first) vastly more powerful entities.

The Circle Mages not playing by the same rules as the player is a massive source of consternation.
It could be forgivable if the AI wasn't as dumb as a bag of hammers. A couple unique units, sure. But they essentially have cheat codes. Map hack, no upkeep, unlimited funds, can spawn stacks of high level units out of thin air, no diplomatic consequences, etc., it is just lame. Any strategy or tactics goes right out the window when entire stacks spawn from nothing. There is no possibility of economic pressure, or scorched earth tactics, or even using terrain to your advantage when the laws the world are literally suspended in their favor.

It just makes it tedious, and kills any replayability.

Which is sad, this game is so close to being so awesome, but this is a major thing that holds it back.

I disagree... your take is bad

[dontplease]

Originally posted by PrawnWonton:

Originally posted by f.floz:

I mean if you think about it circle mages are the closest material representations of gods in this game. They are mearely collecting ressources and using you for their goals or just to play with you. So the idea that they can « make units come from nowhere » does not seem gamebreaking.

Regarding your point on denying them ressources etc i feel like you have a solid point, it is true that it feels like you are powerless in that regard or that your actions do not influence how well they are doing like other games. Yet again coming back to my first point as they are pratically god they don’t care much about a few gold or things like that they are already well established and recognized/feared by their peers and as you can understand going through the game the map you are playing on is but one of their playgrounds. It is not like a game of civ where everyone is a human civilization so we are on the same terms and loosing meaning the end of your civilization.
Now maybe the dev would have a better answer but that’s what i got from my experience of this game

That is just a poor justification to settle for having a terrible AI. Couldn't be bothered to have an engaging AI that plays the game, that the player can actually influence, just give it cheat codes and call it a day. Complete artificial "difficulty".

Im getting the feeling that maybe the learning curve is too steep for you, and for a lot of people who seem to have gripes with the game simply because it doesn't follow the typical 4x format... in fact.... that seems to be the biggest issue with most complaints.. its like... try learning something new for once. U kno?"

the AI seems fine to me and is certainly a lot better than other 4x games i've played. I think a git gud. is in order here.

[AeneasXI]

Originally posted by dontplease:

Originally posted by PrawnWonton:

The Circle Mages not playing by the same rules as the player is a massive source of consternation.
It could be forgivable if the AI wasn't as dumb as a bag of hammers. A couple unique units, sure. But they essentially have cheat codes. Map hack, no upkeep, unlimited funds, can spawn stacks of high level units out of thin air, no diplomatic consequences, etc., it is just lame. Any strategy or tactics goes right out the window when entire stacks spawn from nothing. There is no possibility of economic pressure, or scorched earth tactics, or even using terrain to your advantage when the laws the world are literally suspended in their favor.

It just makes it tedious, and kills any replayability.

Which is sad, this game is so close to being so awesome, but this is a major thing that holds it back.

I disagree... your take is bad

I agree with your take on his take. xD

Circle Mages are literally above everything else. Why would a near godlike entity be hindered by something as trivial as diplomatic consequences or scorched earth tactics? Their power doesn't come from their faction being competent farmers or having great diplomatic relations or having a strong economy their power literally comes from them being so powerful that they aren't bound by rules of petty kingdoms.

I'd agree if Circle Mages would instead be countries/factions that get their power from what their territory provides. This is not the case with Circle Mages. Their power stems from themselves.

Originally posted by dontplease:

Im getting the feeling that maybe the learning curve is too steep for you, and for a lot of people who seem to have gripes with the game simply because it doesn't follow the typical 4x format... in fact.... that seems to be the biggest issue with most complaints.. its like... try learning something new for once. U kno?"

the AI seems fine to me and is certainly a lot better than other 4x games i've played. I think a git gud. is in order here.

totally agree. The paradox thing here is on the one hand people complain that they don't understand nor want to learn the complex systems of the game and on the other hand people complain the game is too similar to other games they played.

Why do they have issues grasping the game's mechanics if they already done it and seen it in presumably the same exact way in other games and they claim the game is just a cheap 1:1 copy? So what is it now? xD
"This game looks exactly like Age of Wonders 3 which I played alot I will refund the game"

next thing you know a thread pops up complaining

"Why is this and this and this and this different in this game than in other games? Its stupid why don't they do it the exact same way as Age of Wonders 3? They did it right! Refund!"

[Jimib4158]

Originally posted by havikryan:

Like hmm the AI that has a lot of ethereal units? Best not to start a fight with them yet because I'm mainly physical damage focused for now so let's try to appease them and piss off the others etc etc.

Though I do wonder if that could become annoying depending on how frequently these events would pop up.

yeah the problem is he will come gunning for you, and always too soon imo, at least on the harder the level, that he has more units 10:1 100:1 a given, but infinite more is a little extreme imo...BUT like the dev said its the mystic of the circle mages :/

appeasement good luck there....hel demand untill your broke,makes the treaty of Versaille look like a slight charity deal :/
true thats only the harder levels, but agree 100% with the player who said more quests like you

[PrawnWonton]

Originally posted by dontplease:

Originally posted by PrawnWonton:

That is just a poor justification to settle for having a terrible AI. Couldn't be bothered to have an engaging AI that plays the game, that the player can actually influence, just give it cheat codes and call it a day. Complete artificial "difficulty".

Im getting the feeling that maybe the learning curve is too steep for you, and for a lot of people who seem to have gripes with the game simply because it doesn't follow the typical 4x format... in fact.... that seems to be the biggest issue with most complaints.. its like... try learning something new for once. U kno?"

the AI seems fine to me and is certainly a lot better than other 4x games i've played. I think a git gud. is in order here.

The game is not difficult. The AI is totally braindead. 2nd playthrough, I have cleared the entire top half of the world map, and all the AIs love me. Quests shower you with positive rep if you pick the right options. I could crush any of them at any time, but I know from my first playthrough, that as soon as I try, they will spawn a bunch of stacks from thin air, and it'll be a whack-a-mole headache, so I will continue to ignore them until I care enough for the hassle.

It kills replayability because playing against someone with cheat codes is the same thing every time. There is no strategy or tactics, only brute force. You cannot be sneaky, you cannot manipulate relations, you cannot cut supply lines, you cannot hinder unit production, you cannot monopolize resources, the list goes on. The only thing you can do is amass a bigger army and slug it out. The AI will spawn the same stacks with the same units out of thin air, and attack. The end.

[sandman25dcsss]

Originally posted by PrawnWonton:

The game is not difficult. The AI is totally braindead. 2nd playthrough, I have cleared the entire top half of the world map, and all the AIs love me. Quests shower you with positive rep if you pick the right options. I could crush any of them at any time, but I know from my first playthrough, that as soon as I try, they will spawn a bunch of stacks from thin air, and it'll be a whack-a-mole headache, so I will continue to ignore them until I care enough for the hassle.

Is it on impossible difficulty?