Only a Campaign? No Skirmish?

[Allwynd]

Does this game only have a Campaign and no Skirmish (Custom Game) mode?

This is such a bummer.

[Nagesh]

No, there are different starting areas and the map is big! Would it be better to offer many small maps? The resources are generated randomly, and a Skirmish mode does not offer any particular added value.

[Allwynd]

It offers a lot of value, because Skirmish mode means:

- pick from custom maps
- pick from custom factions
- maybe have a RMG (random map generation) and create an entirely unique map


Also if the game has map creation, this adds even more value to the game, such as ... get this ... REPLAY VALUE.

From what I've seen in videos the game only has 3 heroes - Alchemist, Artificer and Necromancer and the option to mix and match your own. That's it.

This is a bare-bones game as it can get. Reminds me of that Disciples Liberation game that turned and entire strategy game into a pathetic RPG campaign with turn-based movement and combat.


While not a 4X game, Heroes of Might and Magic 3 offered from the get-go:

- campaign just for the sake of it
- hundreds of pre-built by the developers maps
- random map generation in-game with settings
- map editor
- campaign editor


This game offers just the campaign. What happens when you play through the campaign with each class? In fact, who will even play with each class? Most people will probably get bored after the first one. Then the game will sit in their library collecting dust.

Even SpellForce 2 came with a map editor, custom maps for Skirmish outside of the campaigns.

I don't see how you can defend such a bare-bones game and be OK with it. You can buy Heroes of Might and Magic 3 for $10 on GOG, sometimes down to $2.50 and get more value out of it, considering how many mods you can install after you get bored with the base game, which can result in probably 1000+ hours.

[MrFrengLitch]

Then dont buy it and play your HoMM 3 game that is 20 years old instead. Its that simple.

The campaign is pretty good, adds a bit of customization. Not a lot sur, but a bit. I like to think it like it is similar to Total War Warhammer, where you pick your hero and you have a set starting position and then you go from there. But on a smaller scale of course.

Also this doesnt mean the developers are not planning to add content in the futur. I know for instance they are keeping the elves faction for possible futur content if the game does well. That means if you want more of this game, show it to the devs by buying it.

The game is rather cheap, you can play for a very long time if you try to do everything. Each playthrough (while the campaign remains the same) have random events, side quests, random units/heros and different faction mechanics. The game can be fairly challenging at times and the story is pretty interesting, especially if you already know some Spellforce lore. The game is not crashing and I havent had a single bug yet. Oh and the map is actually pretty large too.

So imo, 20$ is completely justified here for the content offered. I personally think you may have unrealistic expectations from this small indie dev.

[bmcomm]

I totally agree with Allwynd. Custom map generation is a BASELINE for this kind of game. All of the HOMM series have it and the amazing age of wonders too.

I got totally disappointed when Disciples Liberation was launched and - after buying it - I heard on forums that they wouldnt develop it (RMG) at all.

[primetide_dev]

I think you may find this is not a classic 4x game and perhaps some assumptions you have do not apply the same way. Our campaign and map are much more integrated into the base of the mechanics and the game phases. Places and the map are meaningful, as is the main story.
But of course the game has limitations, though judging by the hours people have put in, there is quite some replayability.
Not limitless, but we have players with 300+ hours. But even though it looks like a 4x and shares some elements, it's more of an rpg 4x hybrid.

[Elindos Phar & Family]

14, I see where you are coming from.

But you have to understand that extracting an assumption from games which have procedural skirmish maps (MOM, AOW, some HOMM) and thinking it would be lacking from their "child", Conquest of Eo, is something you are extrapolating. Itmay be from objective arguments but you have also to watch the answers and listen to the experience of people who played it, and who like this initial approach you had.

Once you play Eo, you start to understand what the mage classes are, the freedom you have on a mission, the spells/recipes you are willing to explore, and that the starting region (which means also starting troop/race) + the three mage classes are enough to make you entertained for 100+ hours.

As you spend weeks on maps, the world "matures". This also means that starting from region X, and slowly getting to Y after weeks, does not give you the same challenges in creatures and troops you use, than starting in Y, and getting to X.


Really, "Eo does work".
I would have fun with a skirmish but only after enjoying all three classes and seeing what it will give as a new experience.

[sandman25dcsss]

3 classes (extremely different), 6 schools (quite different), 5 starting positions (somewhat different). I have 200+ hours and I still expect to play at least 100 more hours. Of course we cannot put thousands of hours here, it is not 4x game, but story RPG with very nice combat and strategy layer. Random map will not change that much, we will just need to use more scouts.

[Heindal]

I have to add that there is a bunch of different side quests. And with a bunch a mean MANY MANY MANY MANY quests - so much that I am quite sure that I haven't seen all of them (or all aspects of them) even so I played the game more than 5 times.

Some are pretty much the same in every run (even so you could try different outcomes such as stealing the gold under the bridge and later on you can meet two worn out children - you realize you stole the gold from them and can make a decision to give it back or other things). Some quests - such as the demon and the troll quest never seem to spawn together, so there is quite some differences between the runs. There are even some quest which have the same description, but different outcomes - for example the dwarf quest in Windholme, where you can either catch a terrorist or bully a harmless person. It's not always the same and changes in every run.

It even depends on different skills, that you can identify if he is carrying a bomb or just a special food he prepared for the celebration. One cool thing is that even heroes change several quests such as Lore Grim who can use bombs in several occassions and cleans the way in some of the most nasty quest (finally he is useful for once :p).

To discover the different heroes and maybe circle mages is one of the reasons I played several times.

Some side quests are even related to the circle mages, each of them have storylines and quests. The (imho ugly) mentalist can for example throw a party, where everyone is behaving really strange (and which ends in an disaster - probably for her amusement) or a knight who has fallen in "love" and wants to fight to death.

Unfortunately you just realize all these and a lot of other details in the conception of the game when you start it several times and try different strategies. I however admit that there should be some kind of random maps, e.g. "a giant swamp", maybe with just one city (the orcish one e.g.). However if you want to see every spell and every room, you've probably need 60 hours in one campaign and than you still have two heroes offering different recipes and strategies (such as endless free scouts, farming/mining wisps, infinite bears, infinite shadow wolves, slave strategies, 4 titan strategies, 17 rooms instead of 15 etc.)

I'd love to see an underground expedition of some sort with changing, random-dungeons. That would be cool. But I think this would be something for a dlc, which will hopefully come one day. I have endless ideas for that already. This would even make sense in the lore, as the city of the dark elves (and dwarves) are mostly located in the underground. This would give the game a new perspective and could be combine with the actual game play, because you have two different layers (two different maps).

[Ronnie]

Hopefully for the future Owned By Gravity may consider making a traditional 4x Fantasy Game in the future that is deep and is similar to Warlock 2 to explore various worlds and plays out in combat in that style instead of using a battle board as many other 4x fantasy games use battle boards. Warlock 2 takes a different approach to how battle is played out similar to Civilization 5 style that I really enjoy. I would very much love to see a game like that in the future.

I do think Spellforce Conquest of Eo is a descent game, but it would be fun to fight some real rival enemies. I guess the circle of mages are sorta like A.I rivals, but not exactly as they appear to just be the arch enemies of the game and not real rival enemies.

I think Warlock 2 and Eador Masters of the Broken world was great where u can bring your items and heroes from one shard to the next so it feels like your past efforts finishing one game shard map will bring things over to the next shard map.

A game called Zombasite does an exceptional job doing base building while rival enemy clans will invade your base while your trying to hunt like a Diablo style game to make things really interesting and stressful in a good way.

That is a older game, but it is one of my favorites as well. I especially love how everything is randomized and anything you find in your first conquest will move over to the next map and many countless others where one game you finish will build upon the next future game you play.

That is something I'd like to see some future 4x fantasy wargames do.. I think that game was designed extremely well by a small indie developer and deserves more attention from other developers to consider using for future games.

[Livy]

Think of it more as an adventure game.

[Tolfdir]

No matter what, I am voting for skirmish mode and single scenario mode (with a map editor). This will increase the longevity many fold.

[Zarquon]

I'm shocked there is only a single level in this game. No options for different victory types or game lengths, replaying is just doing the same thing over again with a different character.

[primetide_dev]

Originally posted by Zarquon:

I'm shocked there is only a single level in this game. No options for different victory types or game lengths, replaying is just doing the same thing over again with a different character.

Actually different victory types are part of the game itself as you can select which goals to finish, the campaign events, resources, antagonists and heroes change with every playthrough etc.
I think you may want to view this more as an RPG plus 4X, so the expectations of what is variable and what is static changes around that and also with the diificulty level settings can change a lot of enemy behaviour and conditions, influencing game length. A different map size is not that relevant for us as it may be for a 4X with regard to game length.

[egos]

i hope dev will made new beautiful hand crafted map with dlc maybe ....