Advent capital ship auras

[Star_Moon]

So....

Am I missing something or did they completely gut the advent deathball by removing all the fleet buff auras their capital ships used to give?

I read through the entire tech tree and I see a bit of stuff for shield regen or psi power, but I generally didn't see any ship items that would replicate the skills from SoaSE1.

It seems that the third ability aura that many Advent capital ships had have been replaced by very meh economic abilities instead -,-.

This is a real mood killer for me, as a long-time SoaSE 1 advent player, I really enjoyed (and was excellent at) stalling the game for my death ball of synergetic capital ships and shield regen/spread skills.

The shield stuff, if anything, seems much stronger at least on paper.

But what the heck happened to my auras? :(

They also seem to have removed the Command system, so your fleet can just be mainly capital ships now I guess? That's... really questionable? I thought that fleet upkeep supply mechanic of SoaSE1 was well designed, including the command point element. Capital ships were very potent but limited...

[Jambie Lionheart]

I've been finding cap ships are the way to go generally anyways. In my last game I made nothing but cap ships and pretty decisively owned the map despite a few close calls. It's because the cap ships can tank to AoE abilities and items and counter some of the debuffs with their own buffs. Wouldn't work past hard difficulty though, I think.

I don't really like many of the Advent cap ship abilities myself but I haven't really learnt how to use them yet either. Advent seem to not suit my play style so well. Now the Vasari... love those extra terrestrial bastards :D

[Fendelphi]

Which aura abilities from the first games are you talking about?
I can only find 2(Amplify Energy Aura and Concentration Aura), and they have either become an item effect that affects the ship it is on(Vex Amplifier) or an active ability for its own strikecraft(Halcyon can boost the damage of its own strikecraft against a specified target).

Advent fleets are still the king of synergy. The Iconus Guardian still has the shield share ability, but now has an additional support effect as well(with research).
Advent now use Psi power to boost various abilities, and one of the items they can get on their capital ships, is a passive boost to own Psi power, and an active ability to boost the Psi power of an allied ship.


As for limiting the capital ships, they have become more expensive in terms of resources(metal+crystal), but now also require exotics. Exotics are also used for various items(for ships, planets and starbases) and high tier research, so you often have to weigh if you want more capital ships, or upgrade the ones you have, or wait until you have gained more exotics.
If a player wants to focus a lot on capital ships, they can typically get a lot of them, but they will, at first at least, have fewer items/upgrades and be of a lower level(since they share the available exp).
6 Capital Ships at level 6 is way stronger than 10 capital ships at level 4, especially combined with an overall larger support fleet and more item upgrades for those 6 ships.

Losing a capital ship not only means a loss in combat power, but also potentially giving resources to your opponent. They give exp of course, but they also leave behind a derelict, which can be claimed by the opponent for a boost in various resources and exotics.
So just pumping out low level capital ships can be a really bad move.

[Star_Moon]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Which aura abilities from the first games are you talking about?
I can only find 2(Amplify Energy Aura and Concentration Aura), and they have either become an item effect that affects the ship it is on(Vex Amplifier) or an active ability for its own strikecraft(Halcyon can boost the damage of its own strikecraft against a specified target).

These ones:
1- https://sinsofasolarempire.fandom.com/wiki/Amplify_Energy_Aura
Gone, but I will admit that the new ultimate looks pretty potent with how shields seem to work now. Still, its an offensive aura that had a strong impact.
2- https://sinsofasolarempire.fandom.com/wiki/Concentration_Aura
Gone. Yes, vex amplifier does this now, but a per-ship item is not equal to an aura and takes away from the whole "deathball fleet synergy" concept.
3- https://sinsofasolarempire.fandom.com/wiki/Shield_Regeneration
This is still here and is probably strong with the shield burst mechanic.
4- https://sinsofasolarempire.fandom.com/wiki/Malice (aoe debuff that functionally buffs your fleet's offense)
Is now replaced with a meh economic ability, and has moved to a 4minute cd ultimate on rapture. So not gone, but seems really nerfed.
5- https://sinsofasolarempire.fandom.com/wiki/Fracture (aoe debuff that functionally buffs your fleet's offense)
This capital ship is gone entirely, with it's 2 excellent abilities.
6- https://sinsofasolarempire.fandom.com/wiki/Guidance (its an active skill but its basically an aura)
Gone.
7- https://sinsofasolarempire.fandom.com/wiki/Suppression_Aura
Seems to be still here.


Unless I'm really missing the potential of the new Psi Power mechanic, it seems like a decision was made to largely remove the fleet synergy here. The whole idea with advent was their ships were individually poorer stats, but with full upgrades and fleet synergies they were really strong.

Defensively, I believe this is still true, with Shield Burst and now having in-fleet hull healing. Offensively tho? seems like it was taken out almost completely.

I hear your point on capital ships, and there is probably a balancing act there in early and mid games. But I'm also sure that on large, multi-star FFA maps and the like, it just devolves into mostly capital ship fleets and I don't think that will be as interesting. Capital ships aren't as special when its all you have, lol.


As for the change in culture not flipping a planet... I appreciate why its a big change and someone wouldn't care for it, but I honestly hated how the advent super weapon just won the game for you with how culture worked. I'm not bothered with that being reworked to be less oppressive.

However, as culture now seems to just be omni-present and is less of a relevent mechanic in general in the game... I feel something is indeed perhaps lost. I know I used to really value the tech that Advent Loyalists got that automatically spread culture without needing a building.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Star_Moon:

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Which aura abilities from the first games are you talking about?
I can only find 2(Amplify Energy Aura and Concentration Aura), and they have either become an item effect that affects the ship it is on(Vex Amplifier) or an active ability for its own strikecraft(Halcyon can boost the damage of its own strikecraft against a specified target).

These ones:
1- https://sinsofasolarempire.fandom.com/wiki/Amplify_Energy_Aura
Gone, but I will admit that the new ultimate looks pretty potent with how shields seem to work now. Still, its an offensive aura that had a strong impact.
2- https://sinsofasolarempire.fandom.com/wiki/Concentration_Aura
Gone. Yes, vex amplifier does this now, but a per-ship item is not equal to an aura and takes away from the whole "deathball fleet synergy" concept.
3- https://sinsofasolarempire.fandom.com/wiki/Shield_Regeneration
This is still here and is probably strong with the shield burst mechanic.
4- https://sinsofasolarempire.fandom.com/wiki/Malice (aoe debuff that functionally buffs your fleet's offense)
Is now replaced with a meh economic ability, and has moved to a 4minute cd ultimate on rapture. So not gone, but seems really nerfed.
5- https://sinsofasolarempire.fandom.com/wiki/Fracture (aoe debuff that functionally buffs your fleet's offense)
This capital ship is gone entirely, with it's 2 excellent abilities.
6- https://sinsofasolarempire.fandom.com/wiki/Guidance (its an active skill but its basically an aura)
Gone.
7- https://sinsofasolarempire.fandom.com/wiki/Suppression_Aura
Seems to be still here.


Unless I'm really missing the potential of the new Psi Power mechanic, it seems like a decision was made to largely remove the fleet synergy here. The whole idea with advent was their ships were individually poorer stats, but with full upgrades and fleet synergies they were really strong.

Defensively, I believe this is still true, with Shield Burst and now having in-fleet hull healing. Offensively tho? seems like it was taken out almost completely.

I hear your point on capital ships, and there is probably a balancing act there in early and mid games. But I'm also sure that on large, multi-star FFA maps and the like, it just devolves into mostly capital ship fleets and I don't think that will be as interesting. Capital ships aren't as special when its all you have, lol.


As for the change in culture not flipping a planet... I appreciate why its a big change and someone wouldn't care for it, but I honestly hated how the advent super weapon just won the game for you with how culture worked. I'm not bothered with that being reworked to be less oppressive.

However, as culture now seems to just be omni-present and is less of a relevent mechanic in general in the game... I feel something is indeed perhaps lost. I know I used to really value the tech that Advent Loyalists got that automatically spread culture without needing a building.

Yes, you are missing the potential of Psi power. The dynamics of Psi power means that the longer the game goes on, the stronger your fleet becomes. At the start, ships have no inherent Psi power(except for items), but with late game tech, they have a base of 100(even with no items). Items and various abilities(Coronata, Radiance and Revelation), can increase it even further.
When you then combine it with items like the Vex Amplifier(increased rate of fire, with a large bonus based on Psi Power) or the special Armour item(cant remember the name, but it increases your armour by +50% and boost Armour Strength based on Psi Power), your ships becomes both more deadly and tougher.
And of course, a lot of your abilities are boosted by your Psi Power levels as well.

Among the items that grant Psi power is one that provides 50 to the ship it is on, and an extra 50 as an active ability that can target any capital ship. This means that late game, most of your ships end up with 200 Psi Power or more, and so their abilities and other buffs are far more powerful, sometimes doubling the effect(or more. Some have crazy scaling).

I did mention that Amplify Energy Aura and Concentration Aura have been changed into something different. And they were the only "aura" effects that Advent had on their capital ships. The rest are temporary buffs or debuffs that you spend antimatter on and has a cooldown.

Shield Regeneration AoE is still here(on the Progenitor), Malice is still here(on the Rapture as an Ultimate, and it is super strong), Fracture is gone, but damage reduction functions differently, so that makes sense, and the ship that used to have it, is not in the game right now. Guidance is still here(Revelation), and it buffs both cooldowns and increase the Psi power of the targeted ship.

The "holy trinity combo" of the Sins1 still work really well, if not even better. Animosity(Radiance) now both Taunts the enemy ships, they deal less damage to you and you deal more damage to them.
In addition, the Energy Absorptive Armour is even better than before. You now gain a stacking amount of fire rate buff as well as more Psi Power every time you are hit. This makes your Detonate Antimatter, Animosity and Cleansing Brilliance more powerful(scales with Psi Power) and items like Vex Amplifier and the Armour one I mentioned, more effective(the Radiance can basically end up doubling its rate of fire).

Vengeance(Rapture) can still reflect damage to enemies and Malice allows the Radiance Battleship to more or less instantly destroy groups of Cruisers(check the forum, someone recently complained how they lost half their fleet in 1-2 seconds).
They have the strongest "fleet combos" in the game right now, once they are upgraded and ready, and a large part of that is due to how their ships assist each other, how psi power works, and how it interacts with abilities and items.


Capital ship fleets are, as I said, expensive. They are also fairly slow to produce and moves slowly across the gravity wells. So on large maps, having a lot of capital ships might be powerful, but they are not really getting anywhere super fast compared to some of the smaller ship types.
Having a lot of them also drastically slows down their EXP gain, which means worse stats, worse skills and more ships that need items to reach their potential(which again makes them more expensive). If the game goes on for so long that you have ten level 6 capital ships, you should be near the end. And that is only 1/4 of your total fleet supply.

The Culture power struggle is still there. Especially for Advent, since they can damage and potentially convert planets that are dominated by your Culture(Unity powers). TEC Primacy is another one that likes to dominate with Culture, as it launched Insurgencies into the enemy gravity wells.
Culture can be upgraded to provide various buffs(friendly gravity well) and debuffs(enemy gravity well), so while you do not lose a planet anymore just from having a dominant enemy culture, you do lose the beneficial bonuses of friendly Culture, and gets a debuff from the enemy one. As a result, if you lose the Culture war, your opponent gets stronger and you get weaker.

[Star_Moon]

Alright, you've convinced me to play it out at least. I'm still pretty sceptical in some of these new directions and think that the old fleet supply mechanic was better.

Thanks for your responses.

[Hurricane]

Advent are the strongest faction in the game.

Not just in military but eco too.

All their buildings do something worth while... there's no filler crap like tec.

They also have the best titans and support ships.

Their shields are insane specially laye game and with ship items

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Hurricane:

Advent are the strongest faction in the game.

Not just in military but eco too.

All their buildings do something worth while... there's no filler crap like tec.

They also have the best titans and support ships.

Their shields are insane specially laye game and with ship items

Filler crap? Like?

[mr.bouh]

Originally posted by Hurricane:

Advent are the strongest faction in the game.

Not just in military but eco too.

All their buildings do something worth while... there's no filler crap like tec.

They also have the best titans and support ships.

Their shields are insane specially laye game and with ship items

The planet item that gives 0.5 to 1.5 credit is quite meh IMO. If you have a metal planet, several techs are useless. The economy is the worst of all factions. And if you don't find a cristal planet, you're toast.

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by mr.bouh:

Originally posted by Hurricane:

Advent are the strongest faction in the game.

Not just in military but eco too.

All their buildings do something worth while... there's no filler crap like tec.

They also have the best titans and support ships.

Their shields are insane specially laye game and with ship items

The planet item that gives 0.5 to 1.5 credit is quite meh IMO. If you have a metal planet, several techs are useless. The economy is the worst of all factions. And if you don't find a cristal planet, you're toast.

No u can convert crystals from credits... that credit building is per planet and cheap... its actually vert strong.

Tec have so much pointless crap that youll never build, its too expensive to build and takes too long to return a profit.

Advent stuff is all basically automatic and just works.

[mr.bouh]

Originally posted by Hurricane:

Originally posted by mr.bouh:

The planet item that gives 0.5 to 1.5 credit is quite meh IMO. If you have a metal planet, several techs are useless. The economy is the worst of all factions. And if you don't find a cristal planet, you're toast.

No u can convert crystals from credits... that credit building is per planet and cheap... its actually vert strong.

Tec have so much pointless crap that youll never build, its too expensive to build and takes too long to return a profit.

Advent stuff is all basically automatic and just works.

That's wrong. One item converts cristal into credits, another converts cristal into metal. One item provides credit, but it's very weak, and it has 2 upgrades, so that's 3 techs for, ultimately, 1.5 credit and 15% discount on planetary development. There's an item to improve credit (this one is good, 50% increase). There are items to improve metal production (mostly useless, except the one that improve exotic production). There is the most useless tech in the game : it increases terra planet credit income by 1 (at least it's not an item).

What makes it all work is that culture can grant cristal production. That's what's saving the advent economy. But it's the weakest economy of all factions, and it is very easy to fight (just take the cristal planet). What makes it work is that maps always have ice planets, it's very easy to find planets to produce cristal.

Vasari economy is much easier and straightforward. TEC economy is harder to set up, but much more flexible and much more powerful.

[Brulikrax]

Yea... I think those would never be in. They do exist as equipment, but you need the extra slots mod to make good use of those. This is a new game after all.