How to win Ancient Gifts ?

[ceeldee]

I am on third go at this scenario, 5 AI 14 stars. I am thinking you cannot win even on easy. The problem with max supply is that you don't have enough to guard so many entrances while the AI double teams you any way. Only a matter of time to get overwhelmed. Two star bases do not hold a choke point. No diplomacy so no allies . Am I wrong ?

[Fendelphi]

I did it on hard a while back. It is all about momentum and knowing which jump leads where for efficient movement.
As soon as you knock out the first enemy and consolidate that area, you should be able to keep the momentum going.

If you have no diplomacy(I assume locked teams?), how is the AI double teaming you?
Edit: Also, I assume that having 2 star bases means you play as TEC:Enclave, and if so, what are your garrisons and defensive fleets doing?

[ceeldee]

Diplomacy ? I just took the default whatever that is. I haven't bothered with planet garrisons because once the protector ships/star bases are down they are just sitting ducks for bombardment . What you seem to be saying is its a matter of luck. You may keep momentum going in one direction but with at least 2 wormholes leading in , a pile on from the other would finish you.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by ceeldee:

Diplomacy ? I just took the default whatever that is. I haven't bothered with planet garrisons because once the protector ships/star bases are down they are just sitting ducks for bombardment . What you seem to be saying is its a matter of luck. You may keep momentum going in one direction but with at least 2 wormholes leading in , a pile on from the other would finish you.

If you are playing as TEC Enclave, garrisons are their bread and butter to succeed.
Not "bothering with it" is like having both arms bound behind your back in a fist fight.

So no, it is not a matter of luck. You are not using the greatest strength of your faction, the garrisons that produces ships for free, to help defend your assets(or even push into enemy gravity wells).
Imagine if your choke point had 2 star bases and 1000 free fleet supply worth of ships(garrisons) defending it, which are constantly rebuilt for free, while your regular fleets are on conquest mode.


As for the map itself. You need vision, so you know if an enemy attack is approaching. That means scouts, and a decent amount of them. That means you need to control the gravity wells surrounding wormholes that will lead to your systems, not just defending your side of the wormholes.

Due to how the map works, fleets are slow to respond. If you are aggressively pushing in one direction, it will take a while for enemy fleets of other factions to divert and head in your direction.
My guess is, you took too long in researching wormhole jumping, which gave the AI more time to colonize various star systems, giving them an economical, research and fleet advantage. And if they deem you as the weakest player, they might gang up on you to finish you off quickly.


The only thing that feels "luck" based, is diplomacy, due to poor clarity on what is actually going on. If you can get an early cease fire with a faction, it is a lot of pressure gone and it becomes much easier to push other frontiers. Which is also why scouting is so important. The earlier you find the AI and try to make a deal with them, the higher the chance that one of them accepts.
That said, it is not needed to succeed on this map, but like in every other map, it helps.

[Kuma]

In my experience the AI tends to target the player with bigger priority over other AI. The AI will no doubt be tweaked. Diplomacy basically doesn't really exist since it's too bare bones but i'm pretty sure they are working on that part at least.

[ceeldee]

Tx for replies. I did not know TEC garrisons provided ships that would make a big difference.
I can't see where to turn off teaming because in my latest have eliminated one faction, was going well , now 3 have teamed up and I have backed up . Will get garrisons.

[Kaneda]

Tec Enclave with garrisons are the first step of managing literally everything, but its not the only way. An other way is playing as Vasari Exodus, build a big fleet including titan and transfer your gouverment to your titan. Then go out and destroy the galays, you dont need your home system any longer and you can try to complete the archievment, where you must strip to the core 20 planets...have fun :)

[BatWingSix]

Originally posted by ceeldee:

Tx for replies. I did not know TEC garrisons provided ships that would make a big difference.
I can't see where to turn off teaming because in my latest have eliminated one faction, was going well , now 3 have teamed up and I have backed up . Will get garrisons.

Remember the garrisons will generate ships based on what shipyards you have. If you put in small ones it will make more smaller ships faster. If you want bulk punch but fewer ships then put in the larger one. it will give you carriers, guided missile frigates, and those (cant remember the name) heavy cruiser things. They take longer to build but they stand up better than the flak trucks and other smaller ships you will get from the small shipyard

[ceeldee]

I am going to restart the scenario now I know about garrisons but I am not hopeful. The AI factions are obviously getting level 3 relations with info about me so they coordinate there assaults on me which makes it pretty much impossible to win unless you can get a big roll on early. The neutral faction influence was useless to me, Every time I went to use it it said they were too far away. I think if you defeat a faction you should get their supply allocation because 2000 supply does not cut it if you are teamed up against by multiple AI. Large number of AI opponents without proper diplomacy or at least prevent teaming is not working.

[Mander]

Originally posted by ceeldee:

I am going to restart the scenario now I know about garrisons but I am not hopeful. The AI factions are obviously getting level 3 relations with info about me so they coordinate there assaults on me which makes it pretty much impossible to win unless you can get a big roll on early. The neutral faction influence was useless to me, Every time I went to use it it said they were too far away. I think if you defeat a faction you should get their supply allocation because 2000 supply does not cut it if you are teamed up against by multiple AI. Large number of AI opponents without proper diplomacy or at least prevent teaming is not working.

Twin strongholds as TECE + heavy garrisons can stall or even crush a stack of 1500 enemy fleets alone (if you have synergistic orbitals in secondary lines to conduct repairs). And it is reasonably cheap for what it does.
You can also "pilot" what ships are added to the heavy garrisons, researching only the best (hint: it’s the missiles cruisers and the hoshiko repair cruisers).
Add a “ammunition plant” planetside and watch the enemy fleet crush and burn (at least until they bring out like… 12 level 6 vulkoras desolators)

[Mander]

Originally posted by Kaneda:

Tec Enclave with garrisons are the first step of managing literally everything, but its not the only way. An other way is playing as Vasari Exodus, build a big fleet including titan and transfer your gouverment to your titan. Then go out and destroy the galays, you dont need your home system any longer and you can try to complete the archievment, where you must strip to the core 20 planets...have fun :)

It's 30 planets chief...
And what a hassle that is XD.
I created a "demolishing planets belt converter", conquering, building, stripping planets in chains of 3.
But I've to say that, even acknowledging the strengths of Exodus, I've now converted to the Alliance.
The faction is now my favorite, even with how "apparently" bland they are in core values.

[BatWingSix]

Originally posted by ceeldee:

Every time I went to use it it said they were too far away.

You have to have the supply base on a planet to use those abilities outside of their home planet AOE. Once you have one placed, you will see a ring which will indicate the distance it can be used.

[ceeldee]

Well so much for that ! Ancient Gifts Scenario has disappeared from the games list together with all my saves. WTF !

[ceeldee]

Whoops, Ancient Gifts still there , just my saves gone. Maybe a game update ?

[Mander]

Originally posted by ceeldee:

Whoops, Ancient Gifts still there , just my saves gone. Maybe a game update ?

YeP..
New update dropped. Check the news.

[Magistar]

Just completed it on hard. Just rush wormhole tech, only attack on one side. Choose the side with the strongest competitor and try to snipe the homeworlds. Defend your other side with starbases and garrisons. When you can get the phase jump gates, you can purchase one for 10 influence points. This allows you to swap sides.