TEC Primacy: Overtuned / OP?

[Mander]

I’ve finally begun to explore other factions than Vasari Exodus, and after a particular game I decided to try the Tec primacy, to test one thing in particular.
I’ve found that the combo of culture spread through trade ports + insurgency is basically an insta win button. And the problem lays in how often insurgents spawn: too often. Way too often. You can have proxy wars and win through these insurgents without moving from your territory.
To put in a frame of reference: insurgents spawns are hard countered only by a fully upgraded starbase. Otherwise, they can and will nuke the planet for you.
The culture spread through trade ports alone THO, allows to reach even planets way behind enemy lines, where fortifications are weaker. BUT let’s even say, that the AI dispatch a fleet to deal with them: new insurgents spawn as soon as you finished dealing with a group of them. You’re effectively locking fleets to police enemy gravity wells.
And this on ALL enemy planets where your culture is dominant.

Once Tec primacy escapes the confines of a single cluster, establishing a mammoth economy and build dozens of refineries (exotics dependency is the only chokepoint for TECP), there is precious jack ♥♥♥♥♥♥ that the AI can do about it: I can churn ships faster than them, and they are locked dealing with too many insurgents to deal with me, while I build a 1000 fleet with ragnarov to punch a hole through their defenses.

TL;DR IMO insurgent spawns should be put on a longer CD and/or culture spread through spaceports reduced or removed (because thematically it doesn’t make much sense to be pirates with such good PR).

[Fendelphi]

Culture spread through trade ports is fairly long into the game. By that time, your opponent should be able to counter. AI might at times struggle though, as they have a hard time "shifting gears" when a near type of threat(like culture) emerges(they cant predict, only react).

Also, it can potentially be a detriment to you. You are constantly spawning ships, providing exp to enemy capital ships or their titan.
And against TECP, you typically want Starbases on most of your planets for Planetary Shields anyway.

Dont get me wrong. It can be strong. But how effective it is varies a great deal. Against a human player, if the spawns were downgraded as you suggest, they will be more or less ineffective, which would make TECP far inferior to TECE.

[gammon gaming]

i wouldn't say it's op but it is very strong.
it's possible to counter the culture spam and while insurgents are bothersome to deal with it's a very late game tech.
the only thing i'd consider truely op currently is the advents (wrath) titan, because it can flat out remove a capital from play, even if it has a planetary shield.
if you get your titan into the capitals gravity well you won.

[UncleIstvan]

Insurgency is a last tier tech. If you've reached this far, AI is non-issue anyway, no matter what faction you are playing. You should be in mop-up phase by now.
Against player it's annoying, but hardly decisive as it's relatively easy to counter.
Otherwise, Primacy is one of the weakest, if not the weakest faction in the lategame. Their main strengths are pirate base spam and savage thrills, and those fall off in power after midgame.

[Lywelyn]

Primary being OP.

HAhahahaha good one.

[Hurricane]

Yeah op try up the difficulty and try again... gl spreading your culture to enemy clusters later on... if you manage to even get there!

They out man and out gun you easy it's crazy and winning a big defence battle is how you counter them.

Culture is the last thing on your mind trying to survive the ai swarms.

[Mander]

Originally posted by Hurricane:

Yeah op try up the difficulty and try again... gl spreading your culture to enemy clusters later on... if you manage to even get there!

They out man and out gun you easy it's crazy and winning a big defence battle is how you counter them.

Culture is the last thing on your mind trying to survive the ai swarms.

I'm testing factions on medium random maps.
I maxed out research on the second cluster conquered. At that point, the entire game becames just a mop up operation: I reached a point where I deactivated colonize, because I didn't need nor want new planets to micromanage. Parking my Ragnarov on homeplanets and novalith cannon them it was the cherry on top.

[Mander]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Culture spread through trade ports is fairly long into the game. By that time, your opponent should be able to counter. AI might at times struggle though, as they have a hard time "shifting gears" when a near type of threat(like culture) emerges(they cant predict, only react).

Also, it can potentially be a detriment to you. You are constantly spawning ships, providing exp to enemy capital ships or their titan.
And against TECP, you typically want Starbases on most of your planets for Planetary Shields anyway.

Dont get me wrong. It can be strong. But how effective it is varies a great deal. Against a human player, if the spawns were downgraded as you suggest, they will be more or less ineffective, which would make TECP far inferior to TECE.

Maybe I rushed research... I admit I prefer to reach labs cap asap...
The Ai never had a chance to even shift gear, because culture from trade port was my only source of culture. And it was enough.

[ontimehelix]

I hardly ever reach the end game techs. You can kill the enemy (both AI or human) way before then most of the time. Try a harder AI setting first maybe, or play with some humans, you can use TEC Primacy, then you will know how OP it is (or isn't :-D )

[Mander]

Originally posted by ontimehelix:

I hardly ever reach the end game techs. You can kill the enemy (both AI or human) way before then most of the time. Try a harder AI setting first maybe, or play with some humans, you can use TEC Primacy, then you will know how OP it is (or isn't :-D )

Well, I suppose at least TECP research rush into insurgency is a good strategy with them XD

[Káposztalevél]

Originally posted by Mander:

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Culture spread through trade ports is fairly long into the game. By that time, your opponent should be able to counter. AI might at times struggle though, as they have a hard time "shifting gears" when a near type of threat(like culture) emerges(they cant predict, only react).

Also, it can potentially be a detriment to you. You are constantly spawning ships, providing exp to enemy capital ships or their titan.
And against TECP, you typically want Starbases on most of your planets for Planetary Shields anyway.

Dont get me wrong. It can be strong. But how effective it is varies a great deal. Against a human player, if the spawns were downgraded as you suggest, they will be more or less ineffective, which would make TECP far inferior to TECE.

Maybe I rushed research... I admit I prefer to reach labs cap asap...
The Ai never had a chance to even shift gear, because culture from trade port was my only source of culture. And it was enough.

Wait a sec!
Isnt insurgency a t5 tech?
Maybe i remember incorrectly, but if not, then it isnt THAT impressive.
After all at t5 tecp have induatrial juggernaut and pervasive industry (both of those actually does something in the late game)
But the tece also have them plus the garrisons (free ships, with limited control).
If Iam being honest tecp is the weakest in the game.
But hey, maybe its a skill issue and iam just noob:)

[Bovril Brigadier]

As kind of already brought up, TEC Pirates are not OP and if you are in a position where you can flatten people with insurgency they must have been sitting around scratching their arses doing nothing the entire game. Quite arguably they are one of the weaker factions at moment in the grand scheme of things.

[Mander]

Originally posted by Káposztalevél:

Originally posted by Mander:

Maybe I rushed research... I admit I prefer to reach labs cap asap...
The Ai never had a chance to even shift gear, because culture from trade port was my only source of culture. And it was enough.

Wait a sec!
Isnt insurgency a t5 tech?
Maybe i remember incorrectly, but if not, then it isnt THAT impressive.
After all at t5 tecp have induatrial juggernaut and pervasive industry (both of those actually does something in the late game)
But the tece also have them plus the garrisons (free ships, with limited control).
If Iam being honest tecp is the weakest in the game.
But hey, maybe its a skill issue and iam just noob:)

yes, but with the planet side research focuses, you don't need that many planets to reach the 25 cap. Advent by contrast struggle to reach cap (a little too much imo), but has incredible bonus to research speed.
Vasari can bypass completely this problem with starship laboratories.

And so, TECP can forego completely the use of propaganda center, using the Trade Port to promote its culture.
And once insurgency is initiated, you’re basically forcing your enemies to police their undefended planetary wells, or lose them (and even then, it’s attrition warfrare at his finest). Insurgent Spawns come one after the other and can liberate planets for you. While it may seem a small thing, you’re effectively locking enemy troops in their territories and giving yourself a leisure conquest.

[Mander]

Originally posted by Strayed:

As kind of already brought up, TEC Pirates are not OP and if you are in a position where you can flatten people with insurgency they must have been sitting around scratching their arses doing nothing the entire game. Quite arguably they are one of the weaker factions at moment in the grand scheme of things.

They are weak (compared to a doomstack), true, but not useless.
They are free harassment, great in diverting enemy attention while you scheme on how to better break them. They can free planets for you, but their primary use remains locking enemy fleet in policing actions. And a static fleet is easier to ambush.

[Brave Sir Robin]

Tier 5 tech. Insta-Win. Sure.

[Káposztalevél]

Originally posted by Mander:

Originally posted by Káposztalevél:

Wait a sec!
Isnt insurgency a t5 tech?
Maybe i remember incorrectly, but if not, then it isnt THAT impressive.
After all at t5 tecp have induatrial juggernaut and pervasive industry (both of those actually does something in the late game)
But the tece also have them plus the garrisons (free ships, with limited control).
If Iam being honest tecp is the weakest in the game.
But hey, maybe its a skill issue and iam just noob:)

yes, but with the planet side research focuses, you don't need that many planets to reach the 25 cap. Advent by contrast struggle to reach cap (a little too much imo), but has incredible bonus to research speed.
Vasari can bypass completely this problem with starship laboratories.

And so, TECP can forego completely the use of propaganda center, using the Trade Port to promote its culture.
And once insurgency is initiated, you’re basically forcing your enemies to police their undefended planetary wells, or lose them (and even then, it’s attrition warfrare at his finest). Insurgent Spawns come one after the other and can liberate planets for you. While it may seem a small thing, you’re effectively locking enemy troops in their territories and giving yourself a leisure conquest.

I agree, you can rush t5 civ and reseach it (altough iam not in front of my pc now so i dont know if you need the culture tree for it)
But keep in mind that to counter it the enemy only need the culture resistant research and that is usually low on the tree and cheap.
What i want to say in short: you are right rushing a t5 tech can win you the game if you catch your enemy with his pants down.
However we can say that it works with many other high tech, with much less risk and without such an easy counter