Anything from sins 1 that won't make it into sins 2?

[Reck]

Played a load of Sins of a solar empire rebellion with all the DLC's in the past and still do from time to time and really looking forward to the new game. I've been waiting for it to come out onto Steam before making a purchase.

Just wondering will there be anything that's in rebellion\dlc's that won't be in sins 2 at launch? Just checking if i'm going to be missing anything.

[Fyst]

Originally posted by Reck:

Played a load of Sins of a solar empire rebellion with all the DLC's in the past and still do from time to time and really looking forward to the new game. I've been waiting for it to come out onto Steam before making a purchase.

Just wondering will there be anything that's in rebellion\dlc's that won't be in sins 2 at launch? Just checking if i'm going to be missing anything.

It's a different game so there are things that we chose not to bring into Sins2 and there many things we added to Sins2 that aren't in Sins1 and there are many systems/content that were brought forward to Sins2 in a new (better) way (though I know "better" is quite subjective). Simply listing all the things that were removed hasn't been constructive in the past as it doesn't take into account the whole picture.

For example, the Rampant Militia from the Outlaw Sectors DLC has technically been removed. However, it evolved and was refined into a TEC: Loyalist only system called Garrisons. You can customize your planet (new feature) to add Garrisons that will automatically produce units at factory worlds. You can upgrade them to produce better units, larger unit counts, and you have more control over the Garrison's behavior. They grow, attack, operate autonomously, and don't eat supply just like Rampant Militia but they aren't.

Might be easier to name a few things you really would like to see in Sins2 and we can address those directly.

[Sugam]

they don't have land mine placements/ships but I don't mind that honestly.

[Reck]

OK thanks. I can't wait to play. The original sins was so much fun.

[APhoenixSoaring]

The special capitals from Rebellion.

[z|A|bik2]

Originally posted by APhoenixSoaring:

The special capitals from Rebellion.

True. Team was not happy with how they worked in Rebellion. But capital ships are way more interesting now with modules ;)

[APhoenixSoaring]

Originally posted by z|A|bik2:

Originally posted by APhoenixSoaring:

The special capitals from Rebellion.

True. Team was not happy with how they worked in Rebellion. But capital ships are way more interesting now with modules ;)

This is besides the point. The special capital ships could have been improved and reworked to better achieve the flavours they offered. Instead, they were removed completely.

On the derailment of modules, I agree that they improve the capital ships system.

However, for TEC in particular, I am of the opinion that many of the capital ships are much worse than they were in SoaSE: Rebellion and so the capital ship system is worse overall. This is exacerbated by some of the abilities being turned into modules, with disappointing abilities replacing them.

Don't get me wrong, in SoaSE: Rebellion, the capital ship system was not perfect by any means. There were improvements that could have been made to the unit roster and abilities of those units. However, the changes actually made don't seem to have learned the lessons of SoaSE.

[Nongenti]

Originally posted by APhoenixSoaring:

However, for TEC in particular, I am of the opinion that many of the capital ships are much worse than they were in SoaSE: Rebellion and so the capital ship system is worse overall. This is exacerbated by some of the abilities being turned into modules, with disappointing abilities replacing them.

I'd argue that:

Kol seems better in Sins 2,
Akkan has up and downsides compared between Rebelliona and SIns 2 so it's argueable,
Sova seems better in Sins 2,
Dunov seems better in SIns 2,
Marza has up and downsides compared between Rebelliona and SIns 2 so it's argueable.
The Corsev didn't really work in Rebellion since multiple abilities did not work right and for example the boarding is now a component which can be equipped on any capital ship.

Overall the TEC capital ships in SIns 2 seem better.

[APhoenixSoaring]

Originally posted by Nongenti:

Originally posted by APhoenixSoaring:

However, for TEC in particular, I am of the opinion that many of the capital ships are much worse than they were in SoaSE: Rebellion and so the capital ship system is worse overall. This is exacerbated by some of the abilities being turned into modules, with disappointing abilities replacing them.

I'd argue that:

Kol seems better in Sins 2, :tec:
Akkan has up and downsides compared between Rebelliona and SIns 2 so it's argueable, :rebellion:
Sova seems better in Sins 2, :tec:
Dunov seems better in SIns 2, :tec:
Marza has up and downsides compared between Rebelliona and SIns 2 so it's argueable. :rebellion:
The Corsev didn't really work in Rebellion since multiple abilities did not work right and for example the boarding is now a component which can be equipped on any capital ship.

Overall the TEC capital ships in SIns 2 seem better.

For me, there are two comparisons that define whether or not a ship is "worse". Both compared to itself and compared to alternatives that could be built instead.

Kol, Akkan, Marza I agree with your opinions. Corsev is in R and not 2, which is a point in Rebellion's favour.

Sova and Dunov both have upsides and downsides compared to Rebellion, so they are argueable too. I haven't seen strong compelling reasons that they are improved in terms of either comparison, so I would be interested to read your thoughts there. In particular in Rebellion, Sova was a weak choice, and the changes did not strengthen it in my eyes.

In my opinion, it's difficult to judge without the full unit roster across all factions, which is why I have reserved feedback.
However, current indications are that 1 out of 5 is improved, the other 4 aren't, and the 6th did not make the cut.

I think there was a missed opportunity to improve the gameplay design of the majority of the individual capital ships.

[Beric01]

Originally posted by APhoenixSoaring:

Originally posted by Nongenti:

I'd argue that:

Kol seems better in Sins 2, :tec:
Akkan has up and downsides compared between Rebelliona and SIns 2 so it's argueable, :rebellion:
Sova seems better in Sins 2, :tec:
Dunov seems better in SIns 2, :tec:
Marza has up and downsides compared between Rebelliona and SIns 2 so it's argueable. :rebellion:
The Corsev didn't really work in Rebellion since multiple abilities did not work right and for example the boarding is now a component which can be equipped on any capital ship.

Overall the TEC capital ships in SIns 2 seem better.

For me, there are two comparisons that define whether or not a ship is "worse". Both compared to itself and compared to alternatives that could be built instead.

Kol, Akkan, Marza I agree with your opinions. Corsev is in R and not 2, which is a point in Rebellion's favour.

Sova and Dunov both have upsides and downsides compared to Rebellion, so they are argueable too. I haven't seen strong compelling reasons that they are improved in terms of either comparison, so I would be interested to read your thoughts there. In particular in Rebellion, Sova was a weak choice, and the changes did not strengthen it in my eyes.

In my opinion, it's difficult to judge without the full unit roster across all factions, which is why I have reserved feedback.
However, current indications are that 1 out of 5 is improved, the other 4 aren't, and the 6th did not make the cut.

I think there was a missed opportunity to improve the gameplay design of the majority of the individual capital ships.

As far as I know pretty much all the capital ships are getting a rework for the full release, so I wouldn't take their current state as a reflection of the final state of the game.

[APhoenixSoaring]

Originally posted by Beric01:

Originally posted by APhoenixSoaring:

For me, there are two comparisons that define whether or not a ship is "worse". Both compared to itself and compared to alternatives that could be built instead.

Kol, Akkan, Marza I agree with your opinions. Corsev is in R and not 2, which is a point in Rebellion's favour.

Sova and Dunov both have upsides and downsides compared to Rebellion, so they are argueable too. I haven't seen strong compelling reasons that they are improved in terms of either comparison, so I would be interested to read your thoughts there. In particular in Rebellion, Sova was a weak choice, and the changes did not strengthen it in my eyes.

In my opinion, it's difficult to judge without the full unit roster across all factions, which is why I have reserved feedback.
However, current indications are that 1 out of 5 is improved, the other 4 aren't, and the 6th did not make the cut.

I think there was a missed opportunity to improve the gameplay design of the majority of the individual capital ships.

As far as I know pretty much all the capital ships are getting a rework for the full release, so I wouldn't take their current state as a reflection of the final state of the game.

Rebalance or rework? I'd be surprised if they were fundamentally changed from their current state this close to release, which is coming around August if my understanding is correct.

[Nongenti]

Originally posted by APhoenixSoaring:

For me, there are two comparisons that define whether or not a ship is "worse". Both compared to itself and compared to alternatives that could be built instead.
[...]
In my opinion, it's difficult to judge without the full unit roster across all factions, which is why I have reserved feedback.
However, current indications are that 1 out of 5 is improved, the other 4 aren't, and the 6th did not make the cut.
[...]

Admittedly I oversimplfied of the sake of not having to go into novel length and being able to concisely convey get a point.
As you correctly pointed our a proper judgement should come with the complete roster and including possible changes which may occure before steam release.

Originally posted by APhoenixSoaring:

[...]
Kol, Akkan, Marza I agree with your opinions. Corsev is in R and not 2, which is a point in Rebellion's favour.

Sova and Dunov both have upsides and downsides compared to Rebellion, so they are argueable too. I haven't seen strong compelling reasons that they are improved in terms of either comparison, so I would be interested to read your thoughts there. In particular in Rebellion, Sova was a weak choice, and the changes did not strengthen it in my eyes.
[...]

Sova had some strength in Rebellion, like homeworld rushing which could be very strong against Vasari and their over reliance on corvettes and starbases, both a citing Sova with fighters performed well against. Also a level 6 Sova in Rebellion could be leveraged into a rushed titan.

Sins 2 Sova meanwhile can clear most gravity wells and derelics alone with a mix of PD, squadrons and kiting. Against players a Sova can put a lot of rpessure on early with corvette spam/rush. With access to a production speed ability the Sova can also give you a lot of time advantage when fleeting up or when paired with garrisons. Honestly in Sins 2 all of the Sova abilities can be pretty good so far, although I still struggle to get value of the new ultimate.

Originally posted by APhoenixSoaring:

[...]
However, current indications are that 1 out of 5 is improved, the other 4 aren't, and the 6th did not make the cut.

I think there was a missed opportunity to improve the gameplay design of the majority of the individual capital ships.

So far I feel like there are multipel abilities which have been improved and brought in line with the others to make all of them more valid choices. Something which I felt was less the case in Rebellion.

[JSHALO2025]

Originally posted by Fyst:

Originally posted by Reck:

Played a load of Sins of a solar empire rebellion with all the DLC's in the past and still do from time to time and really looking forward to the new game. I've been waiting for it to come out onto Steam before making a purchase.

Just wondering will there be anything that's in rebellion\dlc's that won't be in sins 2 at launch? Just checking if i'm going to be missing anything.

It's a different game so there are things that we chose not to bring into Sins2 and there many things we added to Sins2 that aren't in Sins1 and there are many systems/content that were brought forward to Sins2 in a new (better) way (though I know "better" is quite subjective). Simply listing all the things that were removed hasn't been constructive in the past as it doesn't take into account the whole picture.

For example, the Rampant Militia from the Outlaw Sectors DLC has technically been removed. However, it evolved and was refined into a TEC: Loyalist only system called Garrisons. You can customize your planet (new feature) to add Garrisons that will automatically produce units at factory worlds. You can upgrade them to produce better units, larger unit counts, and you have more control over the Garrison's behavior. They grow, attack, operate autonomously, and don't eat supply just like Rampant Militia but they aren't.

Might be easier to name a few things you really would like to see in Sins2 and we can address those directly.

Bring back mines please, their great to use for defense

[Isseus]

I just hope there's gonna be a lot more diplomacy, because both sins 1 and the beta on Epic are sorely lacking in diplomacy. The minor factions feel good, though hopefully there will be a lot more than the 4 in it currently, but major faction diplomacy is basically missing completely. The envoy ship system wasn't really good, but I hope there'll be something other than RTS only.

About the capital ships: Basically all the capital ship abilities that were formerly in a set package, like the Corsov, can now be added as modules. Instead of worrying that there is no more Corsov, why not celebrate that every ship can be one! Same for the Vasari, nanites for days!

[Isseus]

Originally posted by Nongenti:

Originally posted by APhoenixSoaring:

For me, there are two comparisons that define whether or not a ship is "worse". Both compared to itself and compared to alternatives that could be built instead.
[...]
In my opinion, it's difficult to judge without the full unit roster across all factions, which is why I have reserved feedback.
However, current indications are that 1 out of 5 is improved, the other 4 aren't, and the 6th did not make the cut.
[...]

Admittedly I oversimplfied of the sake of not having to go into novel length and being able to concisely convey get a point.
As you correctly pointed our a proper judgement should come with the complete roster and including possible changes which may occure before steam release.

Originally posted by APhoenixSoaring:

[...]
Kol, Akkan, Marza I agree with your opinions. Corsev is in R and not 2, which is a point in Rebellion's favour.

Sova and Dunov both have upsides and downsides compared to Rebellion, so they are argueable too. I haven't seen strong compelling reasons that they are improved in terms of either comparison, so I would be interested to read your thoughts there. In particular in Rebellion, Sova was a weak choice, and the changes did not strengthen it in my eyes.
[...]

Sova had some strength in Rebellion, like homeworld rushing which could be very strong against Vasari and their over reliance on corvettes and starbases, both a citing Sova with fighters performed well against. Also a level 6 Sova in Rebellion could be leveraged into a rushed titan.

Sins 2 Sova meanwhile can clear most gravity wells and derelics alone with a mix of PD, squadrons and kiting. Against players a Sova can put a lot of rpessure on early with corvette spam/rush. With access to a production speed ability the Sova can also give you a lot of time advantage when fleeting up or when paired with garrisons. Honestly in Sins 2 all of the Sova abilities can be pretty good so far, although I still struggle to get value of the new ultimate.

Originally posted by APhoenixSoaring:

[...]
However, current indications are that 1 out of 5 is improved, the other 4 aren't, and the 6th did not make the cut.

I think there was a missed opportunity to improve the gameplay design of the majority of the individual capital ships.

So far I feel like there are multipel abilities which have been improved and brought in line with the others to make all of them more valid choices. Something which I felt was less the case in Rebellion.

I personally think the Sova Carrier is one of the best capitals TEC has and the ability to spam corvettes and scouts wherever is strong. It can also support your frontline constructions which is another huge plus. Sadly, the lvl 6 ultimate feels lacking.

[Fyst]

sova's ult is changing as are a number of abilities across all capital ships for all races