Unbelievably confused game

[Snobby Hobo]

This is another one of those indie titles that seems to exist because someone wanted to make a game for the sake of it. By all means I respect the effort you put into it but why? How do you end up spending thousands of cumulate hours to deliver something so devoid of reflection?

Making a game has to justify the medium - be it either by posing a unique challenge or delivering an experience no other medium could. This game does neither. Gameplay feels like a tech demo from 2 decades ago. Immersion is non-existent because the game makes no attempt for the world to feel alive or lived-in.

Aesthetically it's cool, don't get me wrong. Apparently there's a lot of lore to the game as well. I respect the amount of work that went into creating the assets. But these are mere tangential features to the overarching experience. Chess without beautifully polished pieces is still Chess, beautifully polished pieces without chess-rules is just furniture.

[Atropos]

What can I say, art is not for everyone.

[Za]

huh? you sound like you're trying to convince people you're smart.

haven't played the game (saving for final release) but this is a game inspired by ooooold adventures like Ultima, Daggerfall, and Morrowind etc.

[rhabarber]

In my opionion, it's just the other way around - a work of art (in a very loose sense) doesn't have to justify the medium. Do the sunflowers by Van Gogh convey a sense of oil on canvas?
I sure hope not.
In that sense I see nothing wrong with a game that creates a unique atmosphere by art design, lore and general writing (its an RPG after all) while utilising a somewhat clunky engine. Like your chess analogy, only not.

[Shannon Shock]

The way OP describes art is like... the opposite of what art actually is. At least as according to every artist friend I've had lmao.

[Snobby Hobo]

Originally posted by rhabarber:

In my opionion, it's just the other way around - a work of art (in a very loose sense) doesn't have to justify the medium. Do the sunflowers by Van Gogh convey a sense of oil on canvas?
I sure hope not.
In that sense I see nothing wrong with a game that creates a unique atmosphere by art design, lore and general writing (its an RPG after all) while utilising a somewhat clunky engine. Like your chess analogy, only not.

Originally posted by Replican't:

The way OP describes art is like... the opposite of what art actually is. At least as according to every artist friend I've had lmao.

I'm a little confused why everyone reacting suddenly turns to assuming this is supposed to convey "art". Only the first commenter assumes it is, I never did. Dread Delusion is a video game, yet it does nothing to justify it being that: it looks cool, seems to have quite a bit of lore behind it but nothing else. The gameplay is practically non-existent and no effort was made to make the game immersive. The world feels empty and flat, like a set piece.

Originally posted by Za:

huh? you sound like you're trying to convince people you're smart.

haven't played the game (saving for final release) but this is a game inspired by ooooold adventures like Ultima, Daggerfall, and Morrowind etc.

Thanks for adding 1 completely unrelated throwaway remark. By your logic I could sell you a rock telling you it is inspired by games our ancestors played during the Pliosene.

[rhabarber]

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

Dread Delusion is a video game, yet it does nothing to justify it being that: it looks cool, seems to have quite a bit of lore behind it but nothing else.

I don't quite understand how it could justify being a video game other than ... just being one. No other medium permits player based action like a video game, no matter if the world feels lifeless to you or not. What else is there to justify ... apart from looking cool and depicting a quirky and fleshed out alternative reality - which is, I admit, not very lifelike.
In my opinion, a game (or a book, or a movie ...) has to justify the design decision taken during the process of creation, not necessarily the medium itself.
If these design decisions are not to your liking, that's perfectly fine. I just don't believe that it's a question of the medium chosen. To be frank, there is to much variation in video games - there are worlds between Tetris and CoD. It's like claiming that fairy tales don't justify the use of books.

[Snobby Hobo]

Originally posted by rhabarber:

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

Dread Delusion is a video game, yet it does nothing to justify it being that: it looks cool, seems to have quite a bit of lore behind it but nothing else.

I don't quite understand how it could justify being a video game other than ... just being one. No other medium permits player based action like a video game, no matter if the world feels lifeless to you or not. What else is there to justify ... apart from looking cool and depicting a quirky and fleshed out alternative reality - which is, I admit, not very lifelike.
In my opinion, a game (or a book, or a movie ...) has to justify the design decision taken during the process of creation, not necessarily the medium itself.
If these design decisions are not to your liking, that's perfectly fine. I just don't believe that it's a question of the medium chosen. To be frank, there is to much variation in video games - there are worlds between Tetris and CoD. It's like claiming that fairy tales don't justify the use of books.

I take no offense in trying something different, but the simple reality is that navigating outside the conventional bounds will frequently not yield something desirable by most people's standards.

Imagine writing a few pages of a novel on a canvas, then hanging it in some kind of gallery. If the goal was to explicitly convey a message then why is it on a canvas as opposed to a pamphlet? If your goals it to just convey a work of 3d art then why not make it a rendered scene without pretending it is also a game? You can still opt for it, but then, in my opinion, you also have to take responsibility to justify your means. Again: not being a knave here pretending there is just one way to go about things, but I prefer to see a bit of logic in my "art".

Dread Delusion isn't a thought provoking statement of any kind. It's just a game that doesn't really do much reflection. It feels like something made by a bunch of guys that just wanted to make a game. There is really nothing here outside the looks that hasn't been done way better already even decades ago. I'm quite sure if you would ask the developers whether they were trying to go for some expressionist interpretation of a game or simply just one it would be the latter. It's just a game, but not a good one.

[Snobby Hobo]

Also, more tangentially, the spectrum of "Tetris to CoD" is a bit of an odd choice in this discussion. Both games very much justify the medium of being a game. There are clear rules which both try to refine fit to the context they are released in. It was those rules that justify it being, rather than it being and then adding whatever is considered complementary.

[^7R4^2Z^70R]

Art is subjective. This is your opinion.

[rhabarber]

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

Also, more tangentially, the spectrum of "Tetris to CoD" is a bit of an odd choice in this discussion. Both games very much justify the medium of being a game.

That is exactly why I chose them.

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

Dread Delusion isn't a thought provoking statement of any kind. It's just a game that doesn't really do much reflection. It feels like something made by a bunch of guys that just wanted to make a game.

And that is what they did. It's up to the audience to decide if they where successful. It's not up to the audience to decide if they had the right to make a game per se.

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

Imagine writing a few pages of a novel on a canvas, then hanging it in some kind of gallery. If the goal was to explicitly convey a message then why is it on a canvas as opposed to a pamphlet?

Why a message? If it's well done and fits into some kind of context: go for it!
(Actually, I'm sure it's been done before.) You could as well ask Warhol why his Soup Tin wasn't part of an ad campaign.

[Snobby Hobo]

Originally posted by rhabarber:

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

Also, more tangentially, the spectrum of "Tetris to CoD" is a bit of an odd choice in this discussion. Both games very much justify the medium of being a game.

That is exactly why I chose them.

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

Dread Delusion isn't a thought provoking statement of any kind. It's just a game that doesn't really do much reflection. It feels like something made by a bunch of guys that just wanted to make a game.

And that is what they did. It's up to the audience to decide if they where successful. It's not up to the audience to decide if they had the right to make a game per se.

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

Imagine writing a few pages of a novel on a canvas, then hanging it in some kind of gallery. If the goal was to explicitly convey a message then why is it on a canvas as opposed to a pamphlet?

Why a message? If it's well done and fits into some kind of context: go for it!
(Actually, I'm sure it's been done before.) You could as well ask Warhol why his Soup Tin wasn't part of an ad campaign.

Warhol is a good example. Art tends to mix mediums in confusing ways. I myself was leaning towards Richard Serra in my initial reply to you. There is merit to trying new things, I just don't really understand the appeal in this particular case - and if someone is willing to provide me with insight then by all means.

As a "game" Dread Delusion really isn't anything to write home about. Both mechanically and technically it's not much more than a senior student project (which isn't necessarily bad either). My main gripe is that it just feels the aspect of it being expressed in this medium is extremely under-utilized. I suppose another analogy would be spending an incredible amount of work on the frame, then putting a single droplet of paint on a canvas because "there had to be something" (and I know art closely resembling this exists unironically - I'm just not the target audience - at all).

I suppose once you play the "it's art" angle the discussion becomes unsolvable. But I can confidently state that Dread Delusion as a GAME is really lackluster. A game is supposed to convey a challenge by definition. Roleplaying and "art" are clearly not my forte.

[rhabarber]

I understand - seems just like there are other things l'm looking for in a video game than you do. For me, Dread Delusion delivers. Nothing to do with the art aspect, I just like this games approach to interactive fiction. But I absolutely agree that its kind of niche, an acquired taste (with me, there is a whole lot of nostalgia involved, too. I'm getting old. ..)

[Atropos]

Originally posted by rhabarber:

I understand - seems just like there are other things l'm looking for in a video game than you do. For me, Dread Delusion delivers. Nothing to do with the art aspect, I just like this games approach to interactive fiction. But I absolutely agree that its kind of niche, an acquired taste (with me, there is a whole lot of nostalgia involved, too. I'm getting old. ..)

+1 Games like Dread Delusion or Lunacid give you a feeling of nostalgia for the games that were part of our past, there are not many games that can provoke that feeling that come to mind

but OP already left a negative review on Steam, at least it doesn't appear to me as if he owned the game (perhaps he requested a refund) and now he posts on the forum shortly before the release of the full game, controversial to say the least.

[gregory peck but evil]

lmbo 14 year old pseudo intellectuals strike again

[spaced92]

This sounds like a very confused rambling to justify why you don't like something, it's perfectly valid to just not enjoy something. The game sets out a challenge.

In literature a book has an unwritten promise to the reader, so does a game. When it gives you the first step of the main narrative as a tutorial and then sets you out to your own devices, literally offering you several different directions you can go to, I have no idea what you could be interpreting to say the game does not "convey a challenge."

It's this paragraph here that is offensive and not even really a genuine review, it's just word vomit "Dread Delusion isn't a thought provoking statement of any kind. It's just a game that doesn't really do much reflection. blah blah developers made bad game" Bruh this isn't an essay where you have to reach a word limit and convince the teacher that you know what you're talking about when you haven't spent more than 5 minutes researching the topic.