Sunken City (possible spoilers)

[Nyota Mwuaji]

So the sunken city, how long was that thing underwater? also how does one get to the various buildings on the outer rings?
also when it rose out of the ocean I got Stargate Atlantis vibes

[Malidictus]

I think they were going for Jame's Cameron's The Abyss with that city. And it doesn't seem to have been underwater that long. The disaster is old, but not THAT old. I'd call it 50 years at most. Especially since the floating city seems to be the last creation of the Ancients before their civilisation fell, similar to Jan Henriksson's Landcruiser from the first game.

[Nyota Mwuaji]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

I think they were going for Jame's Cameron's The Abyss with that city. And it doesn't seem to have been underwater that long. The disaster is old, but not THAT old. I'd call it 50 years at most. Especially since the floating city seems to be the last creation of the Ancients before their civilisation fell, similar to Jan Henriksson's Landcruiser from the first game.

idk, it was covered in seaweed, you can see the long kelp strands hanging from specific parts, and it was down there long enough for stuff to fall apart.

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by Nyota Mwuaji:

idk, it was covered in seaweed, you can see the long kelp strands hanging from specific parts, and it was down there long enough for stuff to fall apart.

Just a few years will do that. For a while, people were sinking airliners as artificial reefs (maybe they still are?) and those things were covered in sealife within a decade or so. We know that the world of Lone Sails survived through the disaster long enough to produce a few generations of walking machines before collapsing, and we know that the same disaster befell both - the melting of tie ice wall. It drained the water from one and deluged the other. A few decades is well consistent enough with the world as we see it.

[Nyota Mwuaji]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

Originally posted by Nyota Mwuaji:

idk, it was covered in seaweed, you can see the long kelp strands hanging from specific parts, and it was down there long enough for stuff to fall apart.

Just a few years will do that. For a while, people were sinking airliners as artificial reefs (maybe they still are?) and those things were covered in sealife within a decade or so. We know that the world of Lone Sails survived through the disaster long enough to produce a few generations of walking machines before collapsing, and we know that the same disaster befell both - the melting of tie ice wall. It drained the water from one and deluged the other. A few decades is well consistent enough with the world as we see it.

I guess that is true, but it still seems like theyve been underwater for a long long time. especially based on the state of decay of a lot of the other things.

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by Nyota Mwuaji:

I guess that is true, but it still seems like theyve been underwater for a long long time. especially based on the state of decay of a lot of the other things.

But the other things aren't in much of a state of decay, though. Most of the structures have working power, the flooded buildings still have most of their furniture, most of the metal parts aren't even rusted, etc. Yes, there are ruined structures but a large tidal wave and massive flood will do that.

It just doesn't seem all that "ancient" to me. Especially since Lone Sails gives us a pretty solid timeframe. Jan Henriksson was around until essentially the end of that civilisation, his broter/business partner who's of the same age died with a fairly young child so it wasn't that much longer past that. The environmental storytelling of the first game suggests about a generation or two passed between the disaster and "now" while Changing Tides very deliberately roots its narrative into the same timeline by crossing over at the end.

It just doesn't seem like the "Ancients" were all that ancient.

[Nyota Mwuaji]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

Originally posted by Nyota Mwuaji:

I guess that is true, but it still seems like theyve been underwater for a long long time. especially based on the state of decay of a lot of the other things.

But the other things aren't in much of a state of decay, though. Most of the structures have working power, the flooded buildings still have most of their furniture, most of the metal parts aren't even rusted, etc. Yes, there are ruined structures but a large tidal wave and massive flood will do that.

It just doesn't seem all that "ancient" to me. Especially since Lone Sails gives us a pretty solid timeframe. Jan Henriksson was around until essentially the end of that civilisation, his broter/business partner who's of the same age died with a fairly young child so it wasn't that much longer past that. The environmental storytelling of the first game suggests about a generation or two passed between the disaster and "now" while Changing Tides very deliberately roots its narrative into the same timeline by crossing over at the end.

It just doesn't seem like the "Ancients" were all that ancient.

perhaps they werent actually ancients. perhaps a better term would be "founders"

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by Nyota Mwuaji:

perhaps they werent actually ancients. perhaps a better term would be "founders"

Yeah, that's my impression, as well. The game's achievements call them "ancients," but they feel more like the industrialists and scientists of the old world. I'm honestly not sure why the designers went with such pseudo-religious imagery - style over substance, perhaps? Not to say you can't have a modern industrial society with a religious theme, of course. That's essentially what Warframe's Corpus is. It just seems like an odd choice for a game with no spoken or written narrative, as it makes environmental storytelling that much harder to unpack.

I'm also not entirely sure what became of the ancients. In Lone Sails, it's pretty clear that the people either died or left because their machines ultimately failed to help them adapt. The Landcruiser was simply non-economical. The floating city, by contrast, seemed to work just fine. It was still fully operational and required just a small sub's engine to kickstart. Why did that fail?

[Nyota Mwuaji]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

Originally posted by Nyota Mwuaji:

perhaps they werent actually ancients. perhaps a better term would be "founders"

Yeah, that's my impression, as well. The game's achievements call them "ancients," but they feel more like the industrialists and scientists of the old world. I'm honestly not sure why the designers went with such pseudo-religious imagery - style over substance, perhaps? Not to say you can't have a modern industrial society with a religious theme, of course. That's essentially what Warframe's Corpus is. It just seems like an odd choice for a game with no spoken or written narrative, as it makes environmental storytelling that much harder to unpack.

I'm also not entirely sure what became of the ancients. In Lone Sails, it's pretty clear that the people either died or left because their machines ultimately failed to help them adapt. The Landcruiser was simply non-economical. The floating city, by contrast, seemed to work just fine. It was still fully operational and required just a small sub's engine to kickstart. Why did that fail?

Could be like how Gothem looked in the old batman series, gotta put huge statues on EVERYTHING. as to why they used images to depict what happened, they could be taking a page from Journeys book. as to the ancient energy, it makes me wonder if they came up with or found the blue glowing water energy source and just reverse engineered it. If they found it, it could very well be a actual ancient energy system that can convert anything into the "fuel", so long as sufficent heat is applied

[Arche Bot]

Maybe the Ancients really are ancient. To me, in terms of scale their technology seems to surpass that of Lone's and Toe's civilisations. They built really colossal structures like the huge sea wall and the sunken city, and the sea floor is sprawling with massive underwater ruins.

Meanwhile in Far 1, we see that Lone's people at the height of their civilisation were producing cargo ships and submarines at a technology level similar to our modern real world. They did have some big structures like the factory but nothing on the scale of the Ancients.

My personal interpretation is that long ago the Ancients predicted the current catastrophe, and built the Sunken City to survive it. But in the meantime something else happened that caused their civilisation to disappear, leaving only the colossal structures behind. Then come along Toe's people (who may be survivors from Lone's civilsation), and they set up shop among the ruins of the Ancients. This is why some of the mechanisms seem jury-rigged compared to the Sunken City - you open the aforementioned sea wall by pushing against a ship that is attached to a chain.

That is my interpretation at least.

[Kumagoro]

Originally posted by Arche Bot:

Then come along Toe's people (who may be survivors from Lone's civilsation)

Is it common assumption they're not the same people? I was under impression the two protagonists were exactly from the same civilization, only left stranded in different areas. Their technology seems the same.

EDIT: Also, in other threads, evidence is mentioned suggesting they're actually siblings.