My take on the RNG after 65+ hours and 10/16 trophies

[Naecabon]

I see a lot of people make posts complaining about the RNG in Blue Prince.

I read what they have to say, consider their arguments and realize that, most of the time, sadly, they simply do not understand what Blue Prince is or what it's trying to do.

The common complaint: RNG is too sharp, as the player you feel like you do not have much agency in "winning," too many things go wrong to prevent you from "the goal".

Why this complaint is a fallacy: The "Goal" you think you're chasing, isn't actually the goal at all.

RNG is mitigated in this game heavily by many many permanent upgrades. If you play it enough and solve enough secrets, you'll be starting every day with tons in your favor. I have 100+ coins to start every single day, for example. It's quite powerful. I have borderline infinite room rerolls if and when I want them. I can manipulate the map to give me the tile colors I want, when I want. At the point I am at now, I feel like a god of the estate. It's very rewarding to reach this point.

And even now, I still have so, so much to do.

The fallacy in thinking Blue Prince expects you to reach Room 46 is why so many people are struggling with understanding why the RNG is the way it is - if you knew just how many working pieces were operating around you, if you realized how many of the tiles you take for granted are part of a greater scheme in several multi-faceted meta puzzles, you'd understand that reaching Room 46 is just the first step of like a hundred. And instead of freaking out over the "RNG" of reaching Room 46, what you should INSTEAD be doing while playing Blue Prince is taking what the game gives you in each run and making the best of it - finding the secrets embedded in those tiles, and making effort to find permanent upgrades where able. Room 46 will happen naturally when it's ready to; there's honestly not much reason to rush it.

Endgame players barely care about 46, it's not even on the radar of importance for my last 30-40 hours of play. It's essentially the tutorial. You will be going down five different rabbit holes with ten open ended major puzzles each run and solving one will spawn two more - I don't even notice RNG any more because almost no matter what is going on around me, Im either making puzzle meta progress or actual permanent character progress one way or another.

It's sad, in that I think the heavy emphasis on reaching Room 46 has disillusioned new players in to thinking it is ultimately "the goal" and that anything hardlocking them out of reaching it in a run is "punishing RNG" that shouldn't exist. I realize you can't expect everyone to spend the time to reach a point where they truly understand what a gem of design this game really is, but I do urge anyone struggling with RNG blues to try and see a better perspective beyond just struggling with 46 as a finish line.

Reaching Room 46 is maybe 2% of the content in the game, genuinely.

[Naecabon]

Messaggio originale di NeverLucky:

okay so i did not read it correctly, explain what im missing. I want you to explain how its not brute forcing rng to get the clues to get your permanent upgrades from the rng rooms. At my stage of "play" im literally just spamming doors to try to find new rooms to try to get clues or items but nothing new is showing up. I dont understand how this is not RNG gate keeping the game you are describing away from me.

First you have to back up and recognize that this is a PUZZLE game and an RNG game second. The puzzles are never going to be handed to you - if you do not enjoy puzzle games or do not feel proficient in finding puzzles, identifying clues and solving them, then you will never progress in this game and it may not be for you. Just spamming doors looking for clues or puzzles to be handing you will not be how you progress, no amount of that will ever give you what you want.

It takes time, some repetition and more and more will open up. But you do have to put in the work of finding the clues and solving the puzzles.

[Swiss Garden]

Messaggio originale di NothanUmber:

It is nice that you have all these options now. But please be mindful with those who still don't have them. And might be unlucky enough to not get them for a long time.
On Steam there are currently 15% who got the "Inheritance Trophy" - so 85% are still struggling with this "2% milestone" you mention. And might never reach it before they are fed up with the game long before it.
As I read it, you, with these capabilities to control RNG unlocked enjoy the game much more now that you have them? Why not give some of the elemental ones to everybody from the start? Why these unnecessary roadblocks that neither require skill nor add any depth. The game would perfectly work without them, with all these riddles to unveil.

This actually might be false.

I got to 46 and didn't think to pick up the trophy til DAYS later. It might still be just sitting there for some people lol (you don't get the trophy achievement unless you pick up the physical trophy). That said, yea there are roadblocks but working with the game relieves those eventually. Even in RNG land

[Naecabon]

Messaggio originale di NothanUmber:

It is nice that you have all these options now. But please be mindful with those who still don't have them. And might be unlucky enough to not get them for a long time.
On Steam there are currently 15% who got the "Inheritance Trophy" - so 85% are still struggling with this "2% milestone" you mention. And might never reach it before they are fed up with the game long before it.
As I read it, you, with these capabilities to control RNG unlocked enjoy the game much more now that you have them? Why not give some of the elemental ones to everybody from the start? Why these unnecessary roadblocks that neither require skill nor add any depth. The game would perfectly work without them, with all these riddles to unveil.

Unfortunately, there is a sad truth that applies to all roguelites, and that is... that skill plays in to the RNG heavily. People pretend like RNG is RNG without influence, but I can all but guarantee that if I was sitting next to someone playing this complaining about how RNG was the cause of all of their woes, that I would be able to correct their incorrect tile picks or bad decisions to better help them have a smoother run. Essentially, I'm merely suggesting there are a myriad of micro decisions in any given run and many people do not play them correctly. This isn't just a blind assertion, I watch streams. I see the mistakes.

There was never a time where I did not feel like I had more control than RNG. The scales were always tipped in my favor. A major turning point for me was realizing there is no real downside to resetting and becoming more comfortable with accepting rougelite principles like forced resets to get what I want. I spent about 10 hours only starting runs with a Schoolhouse shed, for example, and refused any other option. If the School wasn't available, I simply reset the day on the spot. School is super powerful and at the time, allowed me to get very specific tilesets for certain puzzle solutions I wanted to experiment with. This is not exactly a late game revelation, most discover the outdoor room pretty early and you'd be surprised how many people don't even bother starting at a fundamental step of brute forcing it to be "the good ones" to start your run.

I enjoyed the game the entire time, always felt in control and am just saying that at my point **NOW**, RNG no longer really exists. Its a gradual scale, and on the spectrum it all but vanishes. It just takes time.

[PersonalC0ffee]

Messaggio originale di Naecabon:

Messaggio originale di NothanUmber:

It is nice that you have all these options now. But please be mindful with those who still don't have them. And might be unlucky enough to not get them for a long time.
On Steam there are currently 15% who got the "Inheritance Trophy" - so 85% are still struggling with this "2% milestone" you mention. And might never reach it before they are fed up with the game long before it.
As I read it, you, with these capabilities to control RNG unlocked enjoy the game much more now that you have them? Why not give some of the elemental ones to everybody from the start? Why these unnecessary roadblocks that neither require skill nor add any depth. The game would perfectly work without them, with all these riddles to unveil.

Unfortunately, there is a sad truth that applies to all roguelites, and that is... that skill plays in to the RNG heavily. People pretend like RNG is RNG without influence, but I can all but guarantee that if I was sitting next to someone playing this complaining about how RNG was the cause of all of their woes, that I would be able to correct their incorrect tile picks or bad decisions to better help them have a smoother run. Essentially, I'm merely suggesting there are a myriad of micro decisions in any given run and many people do not play them correctly. This isn't just a blind assertion, I watch streams. I see the mistakes.

There was never a time where I did not feel like I had more control than RNG. The scales were always tipped in my favor. A major turning point for me was realizing there is no real downside to resetting and becoming more comfortable with accepting rougelite principles like forced resets to get what I want. I spent about 10 hours only starting runs with a Schoolhouse shed, for example, and refused any other option. If the School wasn't available, I simply reset the day on the spot. School is super powerful and at the time, allowed me to get very specific tilesets for certain puzzle solutions I wanted to experiment with. This is not exactly a late game revelation, most discover the outdoor room pretty early and you'd be surprised how many people don't even bother starting at a fundamental step of brute forcing it to be "the good ones" to start your run.

I enjoyed the game the entire time, always felt in control and am just saying that at my point **NOW**, RNG no longer really exists. Its a gradual scale, and on the spectrum it all but vanishes. It just takes time.

He's saying the quiet part out loud.

[NeverLucky]

look i have to be fortunate enough to find the room with the puzzle to enjoy the puzzle. I cannot do a puzzle i dont even know exists. Im like 20 days in and have seen less than 30% of the rooms because its been nothing but repeats. Ive only just encountered the pump room and im assuming instructions on how to work it on the side, but with none of the rooms its affects actually drafted i have no way to seeing what raising the lowering the water level dose. This is what i mean by brute forcing the RNG im giving a piece but the game dosent give me the others for me to actually piece together what is actually happening. I dont start with money, i dont start with rerolls, im sure rooms combo with each other like dark room and breaker but those never spawn in the same run for me so i dont know what the end result is since i cant interact with the dark room in the dark. I literally dont know what to do because im seeing the same rooms over and over again and i have no idea how to progress. I have no idea what you are even talking about with the permanent upgrades because i dont have any of them and at this point i only have RNG to complain about.

Please walk me though how to have the game work for me if im seeing a new room every 3-5 runs when i start with nothing but 50 steps, no gold, no gems, no rerolls.

[NothanUmber]

So, wouldn't it been better if you could just have selected that schoolhouse deterministically when you knew that you need it now instead of restarting the game dozens of times until some random number generator finally gives it to you? In how far is that adding to game fun?
I think people who build their schematics suboptimally will still have to come up with a better plan - because every room (in the beginning) is only available once, so when you have spent all the rooms with multiple doors you will still end up with only dead ends in the end no matter what. You just don't run into the situation that the game coincidentally presents you the three remaining dead ends in a situation where you can use them least. Or just doesn't give you a specialized room (particularly connected to another specific one...) for a long time. I don't get in how far this adds to the fun and what it would take away if it just weren't there.
But I think we are running in circles. I have brought these argument dozens of times now and got anwers along the same lines again. I think the game would get a lot better with some well dosed determinism from the start. Others apparently not. At some point it is ok to agree to disagree :)

[Aeriqui]

I absolutely agree, people think the game is a sandbox, when its really an entire desert, with an oasis that you can build

[gamatecal]

Here is someone that just got room 46 by day 28 (ironically 28 hours in). I have complained before about the RNG, but it does get easier with unlocks along the road. I personally did tunnel vision on Room 46, because that is what the game is literally telling you to do.

However, I do still usually have a slew of bad RNG, getting dead ends not being able to surpass rank 3, or a ridiculous 1hr+ run trying to intricately connect Boiler Room to Pump Room, for it to just fail. This is still a common thing. Though, I've learned to not get deterred by that, and just accept that may just happen.

I may also just be blind sided on what my actual next feasible goal is. I have 5 letters and I know where one is (boiler room + underground), Chess puzzle is a thing but no where to even think to start besides the obvious, and RNG into a outside trader for the explosive... thats all I have now I think?

I think it is pretty easy to miss something entirely and not even realize it. Like, in one of my premonitions with Alzara, they mentioned I should of picked something up, but never did.

So I'm just left with the 3 things I mentioned above, pretty sure I'm clearly missing other micro goals that I may just not be aware of.

[PersonalC0ffee]

Hey OP, check your friend invites please. I sent you one. I want to pick your brain a little cause you get it.

[Phil DeGrave]

I have played about 28 hours. I have not opened the antechamber yet. Well, I have pulled levers and opened doors to the antechamber and/or drawn connecting doors to it, but haven’t put it all together in one run to allow me actually to enter the antechamber; however, I have opened many, many things and keep discovering new puzzles and pieces I need to solve existing puzzles. Alas, I am still fixated on Room 46. But after reading OP’s post, I will change my mindset and play the game on the game’s terms instead of trying to impose what I want on it. I will add that I think people can be forgiven for fixating in 46 when both the description of the game and the intro to the game ask the player to find Room 46. I really appreciate OP’s post and this thread for giving me a new pair of glasses with which to view the game as I continue to trudge the road of mysterious destiny.

[HoneyDrake]

Messaggio originale di NeverLucky:

so if im reading the post correctly the game is a bunch of meta puzzles and i wont get to play them properly until i have grinded the rng enough to amass enough resources and scraps of clues to brute force the rng

Also that the game is really bad at pointing the player in the right direction because i have no idea what these micro goals you speak of outside of the instruction of finding room 46, unless its stuff like look for a shovel for free items, or RNG into rooms with notes that will give hints on how to unlock things

yes, pretty much this. Claiming otherwise is false.

Do I have control over RNG? No. I just have so much to do that it doesn't matter what I get. But once I get closer to the end, RNG certainly unfavors me and it's just randomness if I get progress in my next ~10 days. Yeah...

Tons of puzzles require you to get as many different rooms as possible, finding a single clue/piece/item which can be hidden quite well or not accessible without a secondary item (like magnifying glasses).
You also need to assume that every single room has a purpose and you need to note down like thousands of things and pay attention to the smallest details.

At some point, after getting to Room 46 (which is the major goal at the beginning and opens up the game even more) you will get more goals to go for, literally being told "here is your next goal, look for X and here are clues for those items: bla bla bla")


You can unlock tons of meta progression. You can get some upgraded room which increases your allowance (aka: starting money at every round) by 2 whenever you enter the ante room. Once you have that, you can focus on rooms giving you gems and keys, or even better: reroll dice.

But good luck getting the clues for those unlocks or getting that upgrade disc rng.

Who many have build their "foundation room" the moment they got it, making it difficult to access at the beginning of your run? Too many to count, I had to restart a save file because I randomly drafted it while in a dark room, nice RNG.

The game is great, I like it a lot, but RNG, or the lack of being lucky, will ruin fun quite a lot, especially if you hunt for the final few clues/puzzles.

[La Douce Brise]

Nah, i'll not grind another 40h to find more blueprints, switch all room rarity or have enough luck to have an the office, the nook and the study room
I know the goal isn't only the 46th room.
I know there's more ways to do things.
I do not want to grind more and pray for RNG to have one of the combo I need to advance.

[Naecabon]

Messaggio originale di HoneyDrake:

Messaggio originale di NeverLucky:

so if im reading the post correctly the game is a bunch of meta puzzles and i wont get to play them properly until i have grinded the rng enough to amass enough resources and scraps of clues to brute force the rng

Also that the game is really bad at pointing the player in the right direction because i have no idea what these micro goals you speak of outside of the instruction of finding room 46, unless its stuff like look for a shovel for free items, or RNG into rooms with notes that will give hints on how to unlock things

yes, pretty much this. Claiming otherwise is false.

Do I have control over RNG? No. I just have so much to do that it doesn't matter what I get. But once I get closer to the end, RNG certainly unfavors me and it's just randomness if I get progress in my next ~10 days. Yeah...

Tons of puzzles require you to get as many different rooms as possible, finding a single clue/piece/item which can be hidden quite well or not accessible without a secondary item (like magnifying glasses).
You also need to assume that every single room has a purpose and you need to note down like thousands of things and pay attention to the smallest details.

At some point, after getting to Room 46 (which is the major goal at the beginning and opens up the game even more) you will get more goals to go for, literally being told "here is your next goal, look for X and here are clues for those items: bla bla bla")


You can unlock tons of meta progression. You can get some upgraded room which increases your allowance (aka: starting money at every round) by 2 whenever you enter the ante room. Once you have that, you can focus on rooms giving you gems and keys, or even better: reroll dice.

But good luck getting the clues for those unlocks or getting that upgrade disc rng.

Who many have build their "foundation room" the moment they got it, making it difficult to access at the beginning of your run? Too many to count, I had to restart a save file because I randomly drafted it while in a dark room, nice RNG.

The game is great, I like it a lot, but RNG, or the lack of being lucky, will ruin fun quite a lot, especially if you hunt for the final few clues/puzzles.

- You can remove and re-place the Foundation.

- Upgrade discs aren't RNG (getting the rooms in the order you get them is, but the locations are not and eventually you get all rooms)

- Late game if you're playing correctly you can set up master runs that have basically zero RNG with 50+ rerolls

[Naecabon]

Messaggio originale di La Douce Brise:

Nah, i'll not grind another 40h to find more blueprints, switch all room rarity or have enough luck to have an the office, the nook and the study room
I know the goal isn't only the 46th room.
I know there's more ways to do things.
I do not want to grind more and pray for RNG to have one of the combo I need to advance.

These are all very low on the importance threshold, and are very very easy to accomplish.

[PersonalC0ffee]

Wait how do you remove and replace the foundation?