蓝途王子

蓝途王子

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What exactly am I doing wrong?
I'm fine with spoilers in this thread, so reader beware.

I'm 16 hours into a save an I haven't reached the Antechamber yet. Every time I get a decent run, it's immediately stunted by bad RNG or the a lack of keys or items. I fill out the bottom 3 rows, but I'm lucky if I can make it to row 8. I'd appreciate some suggestions or answers to questions I have.

My main questions are-
-Looking through these threads, it seems like you guys have figured out a way to make rooms get pulled every run. I understand how to do the Ladyship's Chambers, but as an example, I've never seen the The Vault, the Drafting Room, or Master Bedroom. Same goes for items, it seems like you guys have a way to make sure you get the items needed, but my runs barely have items in them. Is there a way to draft these rooms/items each run?

-How are you getting the resources you need each run? I've seen people say gold, gems and keys become trivial, but whenever I pull something like the Bookstore, I've never had enough gold in any runs to get the two most expensive books there for clues.

-The Showroom seems to have some very helpful items. Are these permanent upgrades, or just for that current run?

I don't need help with the puzzles, I've figured out every puzzle I've come across. I just can't get the rooms to line up right.
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I think when you realise that ultimately what decides if you can 'win' is pure luck, the 'fun' of the game goes out the window. I'm not grinding away trying to learn a strategy or whatever when I can have all the answers the game is hiding away and still fail because of RNG.

That is not fun. For me, anyway.
Satin Finish 4 月 15 日 上午 11:10 
The only advice I can offer is somewhat counter-intuitive but seems to work
- Don't focus on creating a 'well connected' house.
- Instead plan and actively incorporate dead-end rooms frequently into your design.

Yes this can mean sometimes you get bad RNG ending a run, but if you start placing more dead-ends, then there is actually less chance they will appear as you progress (in general).
It does mean back tracking can/will be longer as there will be no shortcut, though sometimes backtracking through rooms can reveal more items depending on pick-ups like 'Spread'

So in general focus on
Avoid any wasted doors
Yes i'm sure you try this anyway, I mean its commonsense to do so, but you have to account for more than simply avoiding placing rooms with doors that get cut-off. Most importantly try to avoid having adjacent rooms that both have exits in the same direction.
For example placing a room with an exit West and North, next to the starting Entrance Hall that also has an exit north.

Don't try to fill up rows
This can happen naturally, but be prepared to actively leave gaps purposely with the sole intention to fill them up from the row above and then building a dead-end room into that gap.

Have a good spread of room types
Basically don't ignore green rooms, even if you have to place one or two before being able to remove the gem cost. It just gives you more rooms to pull from.

Priorities dead-ends
For the simple reason that they frequently give you items. Don't aim to place them along the edges of the map, incorporate them into your design, even if you have to fill empty spaces from the row above later.

Don't try to get to AnteChamber
Like I said counter-intuitive, but getting there isn't really that important until you have an explicit objective to do so. Instead focus on drawing as many rooms as possible, getting new rooms, connecting/using rooms that have a purpose etc.


No guarantees this helps you, but thinking in these terms did help me out. Of course it doesn't really address getting specific rooms, but early on I think the only thing you can really do is always try to prioritize placing new rooms.

Other than that I think we just have to accept that the RNG in this game is bad and the tools, especially mid-game to influence it, especially permanent ones are limited. I feel like this game was designed around a very long play-time, at least compared to typical games of this nature and that if you are getting bad RNG that can really screw you over making the play-time even longer.

Showroom items are not permanent - at least the ones i've found/used. I'm not sure why they aren't, it feels like they should be, even if you could say only take 1 or 2 back in on a new run. Again its like everything else in this game, where it seems designed to waste as much time as possible.


If Post below has not been edited there are lots of SPOILERS
最后由 Satin Finish 编辑于; 4 月 15 日 上午 11:27
Badgerlord 4 月 15 日 上午 11:21 
I'm at day... 60...ish I can't remember the exact number.

I started out with just going with the flow of things but found resources to be stagnant and difficult to come across so I had to change my strategies. I will do my best to explain MY general strategies and locations I know will give things I need. (Disclaimer: I'm not the best at this game, so take this as more just... what I've learned and go from there? I can get to room 46 in almost every run now, if I wanted to, just with my increase in general game knowledge.)

Gold

Gold is probably the easiest to come across as it's the only one (I think) that you can infinitely increase permanently via the Allowance. There is an upgrade to start with 2 gems, but I've never gotten it to go up more than that.

Ways to increase the allowance
1. Solve the box Puzzles with the lights on top of them, you'll find them in certain rooms and hidden areas outside of the mansion. 2 Per allowance coin! I think there are some in the vault as well but you'll need the safety deposit box keys. I know of 4 of them, there may be more.

2. The lab sometimes has "Add +1 to your allowance Permanently" as it's effect for experiments. I often pair that with "When you draft a red room..." or "When you dig up trash..." if I have a shovel. The Red Room one will be the easiest one to do, I think I increased my allowance by 10 in one run, but, it will also kill your run as each room you pick costs you 5 steps. Best to get it early and just focus on that.

There is also a way to carry ALL of your gold over to the next day in one of the rooms, so you can bank up a ton, and then carry it with you via The Freezer. This ALSO carries gems over, but not keys. Speaking of the freezer, it has a lot of keys and gems in it as well, but you need a way to melt the ice. I assume you use the Candle Lighting tool, but, I've not had that with me in a run where I draft a freezer, cannot confirm.

You can draft the casino and hope for the best. But, it's just that, a casino. You'll often leave with less than you came with. I wouldn't rely on it, but, it may be the 'easiest' way to get enough gold to buy out the bookstore (Specially on a sail day)

As for how I get gold DURING a run, I just know certain rooms will have it. The Pantry is 4-5 gold. Vault is 40 but costs gems, office and conference room combo can get you a lot. Same with Office and Maid's Room/Servant's Quarters.

Gold I think is the only one that truly becomes trivial if you increase the allowance enough.

Gems

Gems are a bit harder to come by, but if you need more, focus on green rooms. One of the upgrades for the Courtyard is it always has 2 gems, and while it costs 1, it means you gain 1 in the end minimum. Often more. And, it's a good room! Green rooms combo well for more and more gems, if you can upgrade the Nursery into the Green version, every green room you draft after that will spawn gems in that room. This also pairs well with the flower constellation, but, this isn't consistent.

You also can get 3 gems from the logic puzzle in the parlor (that may be the upgraded version, might be 2), though I'm bad at that. I still try, and even if I can't solve it, it's a 1/3 chance of gettin' it right anyway!

With enough starting gold, you can also buy a bunch from the store each run, and you can get the store pretty early on. Gems are one of the only things you can't "replace" with another cost (With the one exception of the hovel, but honestly, the hovel is a curse. It freakin' drains your footsteps. I wish it was an optional cost)

Each of the locked safes have gem in them as well, and the combinations never change so those rooms have a bonus gem in it for you (If you've solved them in the first place... and know where they are)

Keys

These buggers ARE the bane of my existence. I NEVER have enough keys, and when I do, it's the one run where I never need them in the first place. Luckily, there are ways to get around the over-need for keys, but these require the most manipulation.

Where I get my keys at the start:

I upgraded my nook to always give 2 keys. I love it.

I always take the billiard room. The dart board is my favorite repeating puzzle (I like math) and it usually gives 2 keys, or, a special key, or if I'm lucky the best one of all, the Keycard!

The storeroom always has a key, good dead end room to get. Got a gem too, and, you want to draft it early so it doesn't show up when you're already at the highest parts of the game.

Don't use them on locked chests, it's so rarely worth it. Wait for a sledgehammer unless you have a surplus of keys. (That's my strat anyway)

Metal Detector is great! Spawns keys in the rooms as you draft them (Or coins, usually coins... but sometimes keys!)


Digging can also get keys, but it's unreliable. Can help in a pinch though. The upgaded shovel will give you both gems and keys, it's nice but harder to get.

There is also the Locker Room, Conference room Combo, that gets a lot of keys if you are lucky to draft it late enough. I usually get 7-8 keys from that alone. You'll need to draft the pool first to add the locker room to the draft...pool.

My favorite thing to do, usually is get a keycard, draft the security room (almost ALWAYS an option at some point) and set the security to max level, that way more doors are replaced with keycards and that's an infinite use item. As a backup, if you can't get the keycard, you can also draft the breaker room and shut the security doors down. Changing the setting in the security office to unlock all of the unpowered key doors. Two options that I can get one of at least every run almost 100% of the time. Just, sometimes may be too late.

The last thing is that Keys are the only items that can be bypassed by other items, but it's pure chance. The Lockpick seems to have about a 50% success rate (I don't know the exact number). The Sound... lockpick? I forget the name of the item. It's an upgraded version you craft has a much higher chance, but still not 100%

The keysmith also exists buuuut It's expensive. Good on Sail days though! Can buy 3 keys for 12 gold or something like that.

The Showroom

No, these are not permanent. You can check one at the coat check though, but, I rarely ever have the money to buy the things in the showroom by the time I draft it.

Final Thoughts

At this point, I have enough knowledge of where rooms will GENERALLY show up, what ones to draft at the start as opposed to later on, and where keys can be hiding (Plus I kind of focused all my upgrades on keys and gems as much as I could) that they are not trivialized, but, they have become a fun part of my gameplay loop of managing the resources. It's a puzzle in and of itself, and why I disagree with others that think the game would be better if the roguelike elements were removed.
最后由 Badgerlord 编辑于; 4 月 15 日 上午 11:21
Satin Finish 4 月 15 日 上午 11:24 
引用自 Badgerlord
I'm at day... 60...ish I can't remember the exact number.

Please add spoiler tag, you are giving away so many details!
Badgerlord 4 月 15 日 上午 11:25 
引用自 Mendacious Calamity
I think when you realise that ultimately what decides if you can 'win' is pure luck, the 'fun' of the game goes out the window. I'm not grinding away trying to learn a strategy or whatever when I can have all the answers the game is hiding away and still fail because of RNG.

That is not fun. For me, anyway.

I can understand that. For me, the puzzle of how to draft is one of the better puzzles of the game. RNG CAN still screw you, of course, but when I'm actively chasing 8 different leads on solutions to puzzles, I feel like I'm rarely left feeling like the day was wasted. Unless I really messed up real bad (Which is on me).

It is not going to appeal to everyone, but it is so my jam. The amount of times this game has made me go "OH YOU SNEAKY LITTLE BUGGER IT'S BEEN THERE THE WHOLE TIME!?" Rewarding my note taking, and also making me realize that the repetitive nature of the game means I have stared at these rooms many MANY times, and details I thought were just decoration... aren't. And once I realize what the puzzle they are linked to is, my brain just gets injected with all the happy chemicals.
peel 4 月 15 日 上午 11:31 
引用自 Badgerlord
I'm at day... 60...ish I can't remember the exact number.

This kind of tells you how absurd the RNG is... I'm on day 40 something and have never seen the Locker Room, lockpicks or the Showroom. I've gotten the Conference room a couple times, the Vault once and the Casino once. I've never seen these boxes with lights on them that you mentioned. And you're talking like using these things are normal strategies lol.
fixedzzz 4 月 15 日 上午 11:43 
Plenty of good advice here and out there already but I just wanted to mention something in OP's original post in case this is tripping them and others up. "I fill out the bottom 3 rows but I'm lucky if I can make it to row 8". Just in case anyone doesn't realize, you don't HAVE to go in any particular direction or fill up all the blank spaces. I've had plenty of runs where I have a straight shot of rooms up one side - that's completely fine to do!

OP, don't worry so much about buying big ticket items like books and showroom stuff for now - if you're still struggling with resources on every run, you likely just need to keep going. Resources do get 'easier' as the game goes on but it takes time, unlocks, and disk upgrades.
Badgerlord 4 月 15 日 上午 11:44 
引用自 peel
引用自 Badgerlord
I'm at day... 60...ish I can't remember the exact number.

This kind of tells you how absurd the RNG is... I'm on day 40 something and have never seen the Locker Room, lockpicks or the Showroom. I've gotten the Conference room a couple times, the Vault once and the Casino once. I've never seen these boxes with lights on them that you mentioned. And you're talking like using these things are normal strategies lol.

To be fair, I spend a lot of days just experimenting with how some rooms work. Or, I make a mistake and a room is facing a direction I think it is, but it's the other way and I wasn't paying attention (Boy I do that alot...)

So 15 or so of those days were not really spent doing much of anything of worth. And, another 15 of them were me REALLY trying to fill out every room and nothing else. Finally accomplished that and boy did it feel good!

As for why you may not have seen those specific room, they are only available at a certain rank, I don't know the number specifics but they have a much higher chance to show up the higher up you go in the mansion.

As for the Locker Room, you do need to have the Pool already drafted. It won't show up otherwise, neither will the pump or Sauna. There are ways to manpulate the RNG in this game and understand how it will work overtime does help, but you're not going to bypass it entirely and that will absolutely annoy folks.
Swede 4 月 15 日 上午 11:47 
I'm 22 hours in, I've only reached the antechamber twice and I haven't even *seen* the bookstore tile. There's a bookstore?!

I'm writing this to say you're probably doing fine. I have more failed runs than successful ones, but as long as I'm making some progress, adding notes to my notebook and figuring at least *something* out, it's progress.
Badgerlord 4 月 15 日 上午 11:51 
引用自 Swede
I'm 22 hours in, I've only reached the antechamber twice and I haven't even *seen* the bookstore tile. There's a bookstore?!

I'm writing this to say you're probably doing fine. I have more failed runs than successful ones, but as long as I'm making some progress, adding notes to my notebook and figuring at least *something* out, it's progress.

That's what I think people MAY be missing? Even if the run didn't get you to the end or where you wanted to go, it's possibly you learned a new piece of information. You may have missed it because at the time you didn't know it was important, or skipped over it by accident, but I always feel like I've gained... something. Each day.

Oh I have SO many notes...
Hot boy 4 月 18 日 上午 9:36 
引用自 Mendacious Calamity
I think when you realise that ultimately what decides if you can 'win' is pure luck, the 'fun' of the game goes out the window. I'm not grinding away trying to learn a strategy or whatever when I can have all the answers the game is hiding away and still fail because of RNG.

That is not fun. For me, anyway.


You would hate this old game format called cards
I'd actually give a slightly different answer than most people here. The biggest thing you can do in the game is tailor what you get to your strengths as well as understand what IS a strength.

Every run you're going to get a different combination of rooms and resources. Having more gems than you need means you drafted a room that gave you gems when you could have had more keys or coins. Having more than you need of something is actively bad because that means you passed up options for something else.

A few general things, get your outside room first everyday. It's a powerful room that'll help you know what resources you can have a lot of or will struggle with in the run. A toolshed that gives an early sledgehammer or metal detector means you'll struggle far less for keys and gold this run. An early sleep mask means you can easily amass steps. Taking hovel right off the bat means you know not to draft any rooms for gems and you can focus harder on gathering steps.

Focus rooms that give you tools in the early game. If you pass a commissary early on, tools will give you resources throughout your run, which works out to way more than getting one key right now. A metal detector and a key will cost the same amount, but the tool will get you six or seven keys before the run is over. Pick rooms like closets that can spawn tools. Later in the run, new tools become far less valuable unless you're close to creating some combo tool and you can coat check to a future run.

Many combo tools are incredibly powerful. Actually getting them is difficult, but having them will trivialize at least one resource, if not multiple. The lockpick metal detector combo means you will never need keys again. Metal detector shovel is almost as good for keys, but also gives you tons of cash. The battery shovel lever gives obscene quantities of gems. If you ever get your hands on a good combo tool, focus getting a coat check room so you can carry it to future runs. And when you pick it up in a future run, use it long enough to get the resources you need, then bring it back and check it in again before you finish. Another fun notable tool combo is the compass plus the shovel. It makes a dousing rod that will give you another tool in most rooms for the rest of your run.



Keys - Keys are rarely needed in the early ranks, but the majority of doors will be locked in the later ranks. If your run has plenty of keys (or tools that can get around keys like lockpick or keycard), you don't need to be shy about heading deeper in. If you mess up and now you're running low you have some options to correct yourself. Pick up a security room and turn up the security. You'll need a keycard or circuit breaker room to get through the doors instead, but security doors never need keys and can be very common in later ranks where keys are needed most. Picking up pool can send a locker room your way which will spread keys all throughout the house. You'll need steps to go get them, but they will be abundant. Or just spend more time in early rank rooms where the game won't ask for keys so you can try to grind out common rooms that'll give you some, like billiards room or garage.

Don't wait until you're completely out of keys and running into locked doors to fix the problem. You'll no longer be able to draft rooms to solve the issue and turning up security doors won't replace any that doors that already exist.



Steps - The meta upgrade here is hugely powerful. Going from 50 steps to 70 at the start of the run is huge. Unless you have a lot backtracking to do or you're running hovel, you should have plenty of steps. If you ARE running hovel, you should have been investing in nursery and all the bedrooms for most of the run already anyways, but if you're running low late in a run, kitchen or dining room can net you anywhere from 20-50 steps in the late game.


Those are the only two resources that can directly end your run, but you also have to consider...


Gems - Gems are a limiter on what you can draft out of your three options. If you're in a very open free space and aren't heavily limited by where you can go or what you need, then be more miserly with your gems. The right tool (like the jackhammer) or upgrade disk can make getting gems way easier, but if you aren't there then be frugal with your gems in the early game so that you have them to spend to get you out of trouble in the late game.


Coins - Coins will never be a hard requirement to continue on. They can only be used to get you other more useful resources. That means they're useful to have early on to get a nice tool, and late in the game feel free to dump all of them you have on whatever resource you're lacking. But unless you're trying to solve a particular puzzle or quest, you shouldn't be hoarding them. And unless you have a particular shop item you're saving up for, it's probably better to not waste room drafts in the late game on coin rooms. Even if vault can give you 40, if you're already at the end what are they actually doing for you?

Allowance gives coins right from the beginning, which is the best time to have coins and being a permanent meta upgrade for each run makes it pretty valuable to go for. An early laboratory is pretty good for that, but accept that that run is just going to be about powering up later runs and probably won't go anywhere by itself.


Rerolls

Don't underestimate rerolls. Rerolls are get out of jail free cards when you mess up and now you absolutely need a room to turn left. They're also great for solving those puzzles where you need a specific room on a certain draft. Having the study gives you mountains of rerolls and is basically solely responsible for me getting the boiler room to connect to all the rooms it needs to.


Even with solid play and some decent metaupgrades, you probably still won't get to the antechamber every run, but then you probably aren't going to be TRYING to get to the antechamber every run. Big old spoilers, but it's only useful to get there for the basement key or room 46.

If you are specifically aiming for antechamber, remember the three rooms that can open up the antechamber. The greathall, greenhouse, and secret garden. You'll need at least one of them on your way through. You only need one of the walls open to get in, but having two can be handy if you're lacking in gems or rerolls so you can't confidently wrangle the path to where you need it to go (or you picked up archive or something that vastly limits your ability to draft the room you need).

Using a secret passage to limit yourself to just hallways makes it much easier to run into great hall. The silver key also makes it much more likely. If you've gotten the secret garden key either from pure rng or a locksmith, getting the secret garden is about as simple as just heading to one of the wings and finding a locked door. Things that push green room spawns more helps with getting a greenhouse to spawn (try spending 5 coins at a shrine), but you'll still need a broken lever to use that room. My least favorite of the three if only because the broken lever is rare enough on it's own and is part of some great combo tools when it does show up.
skewerstix 4 月 21 日 下午 1:56 
I’m not sure why no one has mentioned it yet but laundromat/study is the most powerful anti bad luck strategy in the game. Of course you’ll need the money to make it work and a certain room to make sure those rooms spawn often, but assuming you’ve been working on your allowance(which you should be) you can get 8 rerolls every room. I usually have 100 gems to start so I can usually get what I want or need. I consistently fill up all 45 rooms this way. Also important to note where and when certain rooms can’t spawn, no matter how many rerolls you have. Made that mistake with freezer one too many times.
How the hell do you start with 100 gems?


Anyways, let me add a note about inventory items. It's easy to underestimate these, but many are very useful. The key is to figure out how to find them, because it's not as random as you might think; certain items tend to show up in certain rooms. For instance, the shovel and metal detector frequently appear in the Courtyard, while the Workshop often has the broken lever or battery (and seems guaranteed to have one inventory item). The Tool Shed is also very good, as it always has two of the more useful items such as the sledgehammer, metal detector, or wrench (also: DO NOT UNDERVALUE THE WRENCH. Some of the most useful rooms are mechanical, and having them show up more is extremely good). Also you can often find one or more of these good ones in the Commissary.

Also, do not overlook the Coat Check, especially once you start making Workshop items. Being able to just get one of those back right away is very useful. Also, if you have the steps, you can retrieve the item, put it to use, and then go back and check it again.
BobThePenguin 4 月 21 日 下午 4:30 
Yeah, the RNG makes it tough to stick to a specific plan.

I reached Room 46 on day 20 or so and currently on something like day 40 or 50, but I'm still finding things I've never seen before. Like the Mail Room just made its first appearance, and I finally got the chance to draft The Attic but was lacking a single gem.

When talking about this game, you'll often hear things like "just use the wrench to xyz" but then I've never seen a wrench item this entire time. Or they say "get to 100 personal allowance and then just draft the Laundry for tons of diamonds or keys"... but I've seen the Laundry a grand total of twice. Or when I get a bunch of items, I never again see the Workshop or Coat Check. Or I have 4 upgrade disks in my inventory and never get a terminal in the draft (grrrr).

Luckily, I still have a big list of things to try and things to follow up, so each run does get me a little closer to discovering *something*... like finally finding the Mail Room has finally given me the clue I need to solve a puzzle that's been bugging me since day 1, so that's progress. But it definitely feels frustrating if I'm trying to focus on progressing on one particular thing because the game inevitable doesn't give anything I need.
最后由 BobThePenguin 编辑于; 4 月 21 日 下午 4:31
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