To those of you not enjoying the game...

[PersonalC0ffee]

Let me ask you a simple question, yet a deceptive one, much like the game..

How many of you have opened the Orchard Gate? I ask this in honest faith because I feel this is the first step to understanding what the vision is for the game.

I feel this is an incredibly simple thing to do for a new player, probably one of the most vital, and the most likely thing players will stumble upon, should they be exploring properly.

If you haven't even opened this gate than you haven't even BEGUN to scratch the surface of the depth of this game. You really don't know how deep the rabbit hole goes...

You can open that Orchard Gate Day 1 if you know how.

I can confidently tell you that if they did not change anything from the demo in terms of codes or puzzles that I can boot up a brand new save file and open that gate right now having just purchased the game. It is all here in my journal from the demo, which they literally tell you have and to take notes or you won't be getting far.

This is the the major progression and satisfaction of accomplishment the game gives you. It gives you knowledge, that is why it is being compared to Outer Wilds and such.

If you don't understand that, then I'm afraid you've missed the point.

[Ridnarhtim]

Originally posted by PersonalC0ffee:

Originally posted by Ridnarhtim:

I would love to open the orchard gate, I have been trying to for a while, and I'm pretty sure I figured out how to about 5 days ago. But I guess the RNG doesn't want me to have it.

If you figured out how what is the issue? Just go and open it.

I mean that I know how to get the code to open it, I've seen all the individual components needed, I just haven't gotten the right combination of items and rooms to be able to actually do so.

[PersonalC0ffee]

Originally posted by Ridnarhtim:

Originally posted by PersonalC0ffee:

If you figured out how what is the issue? Just go and open it.

I mean that I know how to get the code to open it, I've seen all the individual components needed, I just haven't gotten the right combination of items and rooms to be able to actually do so.

How do you know how to get the code and yet not have it? Far as I remember nothing tells you how to do this, you literally have to discover it for yourself.

[pr1mus]

Originally posted by Ridnarhtim:

Originally posted by PersonalC0ffee:

If you figured out how what is the issue? Just go and open it.

I mean that I know how to get the code to open it, I've seen all the individual components needed, I just haven't gotten the right combination of items and rooms to be able to actually do so.

isn't the orchard outside the manor next to the campsite, you can walk over there at any time? maybe i'm getting wooshed rn, i found the code by using a magnifying glass on a photo in a deactivated dark room, you can see the code carved into a tree.

edit: ah, i see what you're getting at.

[Stevyboule]

Originally posted by PersonalC0ffee:

Originally posted by Ridnarhtim:

I mean that I know how to get the code to open it, I've seen all the individual components needed, I just haven't gotten the right combination of items and rooms to be able to actually do so.

How do you know how to get the code and yet not have it? Far as I remember nothing tells you how to do this, you literally have to discover it for yourself.

The irony, the condescending mastermind puzzle solver guy can't get his head arround simple logic.
You can get the room in one run and the item in another one and still make the connection. You still need 2 rooms and 1 items to be able to get the code so still 3 rng component.

At this point I really start to believe you're just farming or rage baiting..

[Ridnarhtim]

Originally posted by PersonalC0ffee:

Originally posted by Ridnarhtim:

I mean that I know how to get the code to open it, I've seen all the individual components needed, I just haven't gotten the right combination of items and rooms to be able to actually do so.

How do you know how to get the code and yet not have it? Far as I remember nothing tells you how to do this, you literally have to discover it for yourself.

I found a magnifying glass in an early run. I've seen the photo of the tree in the darkroom. It was immediately obvious what I should do. But I have yet to get all the pieces required (magnifying glass, dark room, and utility closet) in one run.

[PersonalC0ffee]

Originally posted by Ridnarhtim:

Originally posted by PersonalC0ffee:

How do you know how to get the code and yet not have it? Far as I remember nothing tells you how to do this, you literally have to discover it for yourself.

I found a magnifying glass in an early run. I've seen the photo of the tree in the darkroom. It was immediately obvious what I should do. But I have yet to get all the pieces required (magnifying glass, dark room, and utility closet) in one run.

To give some help;

Certain rooms have a certain item pool, track where you find the magnifying glass and prioritize these rooms while weeding out the dead ends and making your path weave through the house.

You don't need the utility closet if you draft the Shelter in the outer room just so you know to make that a bit easier.

The wrench can also change the rarity of certain rooms.

[possessedCow]

Wow, cool, if you spend 30 minutes working around the RNG you can solve an incredibly obvious puzzle.

[Gruuuuuu]

Originally posted by Nathair:

Day 26, obtained the 4 permanent upgrades that show up on the blueprint screen (orchard, gem cavern, etc), lit the 4 blue lamps, reached antichamber/found basement key+door, figured out the room paintings message, figured out the tomb puzzle, the chess puzzle, the VAC breaker puzzle, etc, etc.

Whole time i was waiting for the game to actually bring out something interesting to engage with (it never did). The moment to moment gameplay is monotonous (time wasting dartboard weee~). Didn't draw the pool room and then draw the pump room and then draw the boiler room in a location where it's connected to the pump room? Then ♥♥♥♥ you no progress for that line of investigation for the day.

So much of the game feels designed to waste your time. The absurdly slow movement speed, the dartboard primary school tier maths equations, the computer terminal boy i sure love spending 15 seconds just to change the offline keycard readers to unlocked every time i enter the security room yippee what fun.

When you learn something new in outer wilds you can immediately go to the location or whatever and apply your knowledge/theory. Bought a book from the bookshop in Blue Prince? Hope you then draw a library. Then order in the new book. Then wait a day for the book to come in. Then hope you draw a library again so you can read the book. Then wait another day so you can order another book so you can wait another day so you can read it etc etc.

The problem is not the puzzles (except the dartboard, destroy it) or the mystery elements, it is the egregious time wasting mechanics that add nothing to the experience.

I'm just about at the same point and feeling exactly the same. Intrigued by the mystery and finding some satisfaction from unraveling things but the format absolutely kills any momentum for totally arbitrary design. Not a fan of things that intentionally just waste your time and I'm about to say k I'm good on this one.

[John Hammond]

Originally posted by PersonalC0ffee:

Originally posted by John Hammond:

Boss, wtf are you doing? Go play Outer Wilds. I feel sorry for you but also envious. A fresh play through Outer Wilds with my knowledge erased would be amazing.

So let me reiterate on that for a moment.

I didn't play Outer Wilds and skiipped over it because people turned me off to the game by saying the gameplay sucks and the game sucks because it resets every 30 minutes. Parallels can be drawn there with what's going on here. The rng sucks, the game is boring etc. and people are going to hear that and decide Blue Prince is not worth their time, just like I did to Outer Wilds

Boss, the time you've spent suggesting to people how to play this game could have been spent playing Outer Wilds.

[功夫kappa]

Originally posted by PersonalC0ffee:

You're now forcing me into spoiler territory cause you won't stop.

you say this every time you get caught with someone's leveled response that you can't white knight your way out of.

the fact of the matter is that this game isn't actually a roguelike. it's a game of solitaire. that's all it is. solitaire with a fancy GUI.

Like Solitaire, the game can end simply because of a bad draw. nothing you can do as a card player or strategist to change that.

Blue Prince, once you've played a few days and realize all the gimicks, is nothing but a fancy game of solitaire.

It has no real replay value other than a time waster ... like solitaire.

An actual rogue like, on the other hand, keeps player skill as a determinant factor. A good player at any given moment has a chance of success. Period. That's how it works.

Blue Prince does not offer this one basic functionality.

[Cloudy Rosefield]

Vast over-reliance on RNG. I'm on day 83 and have NEVER even seen an orchard, pump room, sauna, or any of the other "special" rooms, despite a plethora of clues pointing to them...seen Foundation once, never have had the ability to get back to it. RNG does not make something fun because it adds randomness...it blocks progression in random ways and causes a percentage of the playerbase to essentially never partake in certain game elements. I have zero desire to run around Very Slowly hoping beyond hope that RNG decides to not suck this next run. Despite what others have said, the player actually has almost no way to beat or mitigate the RNG grind in this game.

[peel]

Originally posted by Nathair:

The moment to moment gameplay is monotonous (time wasting dartboard weee~). Didn't draw the pool room and then draw the pump room and then draw the boiler room in a location where it's connected to the pump room? Then ♥♥♥♥ you no progress for that line of investigation for the day.

This is basically where I am right now, day 36. I stopped doing the dartboard because I'm just sick of it. I've done like 10 days in a row without drawing the boiler; the 3 times I have gotten it previously I was unable to connect it to the pump room. I'm just robotically playing over and over hoping to get the right rooms to progress. I know there's a lot more to do in this game and I've enjoyed the puzzles so far, but it's just gotten too boring and repetitive for me I think.

[Mendacious Calamity]

Originally posted by PersonalC0ffee:

Let me ask you a simple question, yet a deceptive one, much like the game..

How many of you have opened the Orchard Gate?

Let me ask you an equally simple question: does RNG ultimately decide if you stand a chance of getting to the end?

If the answer is yes, that is why I'm not having fun.

[Mendacious Calamity]

Originally posted by Cloudy Rosefield:

Vast over-reliance on RNG.

That's it in a nutshell for me. I've played four runs. Four. And already I can tell that RNG is what will determine if I can ever get to the end. I'm out.

[jshbckr]

Some minor unmarked spoilers- I’m sure this goes against the principle of the design (especially considering the game does have mechanics to alter rarity of rooms, more steps, day bonuses, etc) but I do think the game’s feeling of progression would benefit from some secret under-the-hood weighting in the player’s favor. For example, many of the puzzles seem to require about three elements, such as darkroom+breaker/bunker+magnifying glass to “solve” and I think if you already have two elements in play then the game should weight the third piece slightly in your favor. It’s “technically” cheating in the player’s favor but developers like Thomas Grip from Frictional Games has spoken before about how Amnesia is tuned to “feel” scarier to the player but is tuned to deliver a specific horror experience and not necessarily be punishingly difficult. I.e. that “close call” with the monster maybe wasn’t actually as close as it felt. Maybe a little like Coyote Time in platformers (still being able to jump when just a hair over the edge of a platform), it’s “cheating” in favor of the player’s experience.