To those of you not enjoying the game...

[PersonalC0ffee]

Let me ask you a simple question, yet a deceptive one, much like the game..

How many of you have opened the Orchard Gate? I ask this in honest faith because I feel this is the first step to understanding what the vision is for the game.

I feel this is an incredibly simple thing to do for a new player, probably one of the most vital, and the most likely thing players will stumble upon, should they be exploring properly.

If you haven't even opened this gate than you haven't even BEGUN to scratch the surface of the depth of this game. You really don't know how deep the rabbit hole goes...

You can open that Orchard Gate Day 1 if you know how.

I can confidently tell you that if they did not change anything from the demo in terms of codes or puzzles that I can boot up a brand new save file and open that gate right now having just purchased the game. It is all here in my journal from the demo, which they literally tell you have and to take notes or you won't be getting far.

This is the the major progression and satisfaction of accomplishment the game gives you. It gives you knowledge, that is why it is being compared to Outer Wilds and such.

If you don't understand that, then I'm afraid you've missed the point.

[iClan|AnGeL]

18 hours in, went to room 46 twice so far. The first 10h were enjoyable enough for me to do them in one sitting.
But right now, the fact that you always need certain items and certain rooms to complete some challenge is becoming underwhelming very quickly.

If the runs were quicker, that would be fine, but you can get screwed out of a good run by some rng.

[Deyan]

I'm 16 hours in, reached room 46 and I'm very mixed on the game. There's definitely stuff I like but I've kinda lost motivation to play. There's plenty of threads I want to go down but I hate how it just feels like I'm doing the same stuff over and over again crossing my fingers a certain combination of rooms will spawn. I'm pretty sure I figured out the solution to the chess puzzle like 10 hours ago but haven't had a chance to actually execute it yet.

Quick Q to people who are further, does the game really expand much more? I've seen folks claim they played the game for 100 hours so if there's this huge post-ending stuff that really evolves the gameplay I might try and go further. But If it is just collect red envelopes then that kinda kills my interest.

[John Hammond]

Автор сообщения: PersonalC0ffee

I'm sorry the game didn't click for you.

But you don't need to go spoiling it for everyone else.

The Outer Wilds comparison is SOLELY that knowledge is the unlock. Don't spoil outer wilds for me as well.

Boss, wtf are you doing? Go play Outer Wilds. I feel sorry for you but also envious. A fresh play through Outer Wilds with my knowledge erased would be amazing.

[NorionV]

This is a terribly dishonest way to represent the problem with the game.

Of course you can just 'open it', because you already know the code from grinding the demo, which is the same thing I did. The Orchard Gate is a ♥♥♥♥ example to use.

Can you make the same claim for the west gate? Basement? Laboratory?

The funny part is that you said 'it should be the first things people get', and yet I opened the west gate first. I know someone that actually got the VAC puzzle on their first day. That person is having a GREAT time because he got really lucky with a lot of his rooms (he even showed me his floor plans and you would not believe what I saw).

Try to be a little more candid about the issue instead of manipulating the narrative. The RNG is trash and there's too many layers and not enough control over what you're able to get done. Using the Orchard Gate as your example is a low move.

[Mahaloth]

Автор сообщения: vSandro

Don’t ask questions just consume product and get excited for next product

WHAT IS NEXT? #rlm

[Gin]

The game isn't bad, or hard, but the game wastes time for seemingly no reason whatsoever.

I wanted to give the game a try and see if there are any upgrades early on to make movement and the game loop faster, I also wanted to wait for some patches to see if the devs plan to fix this and some other issues such as weird default controls for mouse + keyboard, but after reading on the forum about people who were "play testing" the game, I realized that these issues were ignored, so it's pretty clear they will never get fixed.


If the time waste issue was 1 or 2 rooms in the whole game loop, I wouldn't bat an eye, but when the time waste issue is at the core of the gameplay loop, then that's a big ass issue that needed to be fixed asap.

[DrSalty]

I've got all the permanent unlocks except the chess board - its RNG hell - I cant get the rooms in an order that allows me to enter the anti chamber despite having teh secret garden key in the room where you can save an item or unlocking the level in the hall - theres always SOMETHING that gets in the way right at the end.
This game is RNG hell. The epitome of ♥♥♥♥ game design.

[DrSalty]

Автор сообщения: Shot_Trip

Автор сообщения: Luminous Centipede

I reached room 46 on like day 12, and my problem isnt with the concept of the game its with the level of RNG needed to solve some of the puzzles. It sucks KNOWING how to solve a puzzle and straight up not being able to because you don't get a keycard or the rooms needed to turn off keycard doors. It feels bad to know what to do to solve the chess puzzle and just not pull the right rooms, over and over again. I love what they are trying to do with the RNG, but it truly feels like the fumbled the delivery. Going from day 1 to day 38 and never even getting the lab and the boiler in the same run even when using the conserv to boost odds is the biggest sign of this for me.

This is what pains me the most. It's the smarmy people who say "there's ways to manipulate it!" when it doesn't gaurentee it. It should be a way to simply PIN the rooms in place, either as a fourth draft or directly on your map. It's so absurd to me that you can know the solution to something and then be told "haha, sorry, no, not this time, chap, try again!"

This guy is 100% correct, this is the major issue and the power to pin rooms would fix the whole RNG hell issue and make the game much more fun.

[DrSalty]

Автор сообщения: Shot_Trip

Genuinely players who are frustrated with this would be better off playing Outer Wilds, Cultist Simulator, and Void Stranger. All three games are about a lack of knowledge blossoming into a greater understanding of a world and thus being able to navigate it more seamlessly, more effortlessly than before, making each run progressively more smooth and simple. What were bumps before become smooth paths, frightening threats become tools, and a true master of the games can complete them with little effort and masterful execution.

Blue Prince fails on each of these merits. Its premise - of exploring a shifting and changing house without combat - is sound enough, but the broader elements, even those 'unlocked with knowledge', are too reliant on RNG to function. Even the most basic ones require specific room combinations some players might not even see. It is possible, though unlikely, for a new player, to *draw nothing but dead ends* from the entrance hall, leading to a comical t- shaped four room house that is as disappointing as the game itself.

(literally, I've seen someone whose first run was: guest bedroom, closet, and storeroom.)

Cultist Simulator will always have similar actions getting you similar results. Ignorance can be dangerous but exploration is always possible. THe only elements of randomness take ages to actually harm you - and often benefit you anyway. Learning how aspects function and how to better shift the odds is a permanent benefit and almost always works every run.

Outer Wilds speaks for itself.

Void Stranger is a game about learning the rules of a world you don't belong in and how to manipulate them, getting faster and more skilled in your navigation of that world each time.

Blue Prince is about hoping to God that you manage to get x room for y synergy in z rank with g item and h item so you can... get a few extra keys and a hint to step 1 of a puzzle you solved three runs ago and has already become a slow and tedious annoyance, then drafting one bad room and watching the run fall apart like sand in your hands. It's about making a major discovery... that leads to *another* random benefit that probably won't help you and might even hinder you. It's about getting a synergy for x color of room and never ever drafting it, even with chance bonuses, or drafting that color only with dead ends or bad corners. It's about how a whole genre of room only exists to hurt you, to the point where one notable synergy is about deleting those harms... and then one expensive boon REQUIRING you draft them, for MINUSCULE benefit, AT THE COST OF THE ROOM THAT REMOVES THOSE HARMS!

It's about knowing a solution and needing a golden ticket to implement it.

In short: It starts promising, then falls on its face and wants you to praise it for the speed at which its face cracked into the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ pavement. It's an insult. I know about the insulting "rng manipulation" elements. I KNOW about the 'knowledge checks'. They are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, they are useless, and spending day after day after day wishing and hoping for the game to HAND ME A RUN as I grow more and more tired of each and every step getting more tedious with repetition is, again, an insult.

I can only hope the dev sees these arguments not as 'proof of his design' but as a DESPERATE need to get back to the drawing board. There's gold here, in its way, but it needs so much work and so much change that it might not resemble itself in the end.

+1

[jk guys]

The orchard "puzzle" you are describing requires three different RNG elements to align to learn the gate code (2 rooms and an item), but is stupid simple to solve once it appears. This is exactly the type of thing we are complaining about.

[Zephyrw]

the biggest issue is i know how to solve every secret, but i need so much luck to be able to make a manor for it

How many try only for getting this stupid power hammer put it in the closet and pray to find it again to check the basement wall ? they are so many dead end in this game and it pure luck (it to grindy to manually change the rate of everything)

[NorionV]

Автор сообщения: jk guys

The orchard "puzzle" you are describing requires three different RNG elements to align to learn the gate code (2 rooms and an item), but is stupid simple to solve once it appears. This is exactly the type of thing we are complaining about.

It almost read like a 'just look it up' post, if you angle it right.

Because the implication is that 'if you just know how to do it!' then it's easy.

Sure, but finding out how to do it isn't even hard. It's just nestled deep into the layers of RNG. You'll naturally use that item on literally everything if you pick it up. You'll naturally flip that one switch if you read the name after having seen the room yourself. You'll naturally piece together what the number means once you inevitably use the item and see the number. It's not a HARD puzzle.

It's just an annoying and obscure one. But once you know, sure: you can unlock the orchard first day. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the game, though?

[tzeneth]

I actually just randomly stumbled upon the answer to the Orchard puzzle. Literally just had the 2 rooms nearby and the item I needed. I felt mildly clever for realizing what I needed to do with the one room but I wouldn't call it that impressive of a puzzle.

[Riut]

Автор сообщения: PersonalC0ffee

Автор сообщения: AILAD

Did that in the first two hours.

Anyways... I think the people who are enjoying the game should just admit that they're mindlessly going through the motions. The game has a nice atmosphere and doesn't take any effort to play.

It's basically an idle game. Most people really enjoying it are older people who wanna unwind after work or dealing with their kids for the day. Nothing wrong with that.

As an idle time wasting RNG game, Blue Prince is a masterpiece.

As a puzzle game, it's not very good.

I have hundreds of hours in the demo. I was not mindlessly going through the motions. I was seeking, discovering, and testing. I had some absolutely amazing runs and I had some very bad miserable runs.

That's the way it goes with roguelites.

Lil bro has hundreds of hours in the demo and he's like "no guys this game doesn't waste your time you just gotta think tactically."

[ngwoo]

Everything about the game is wonderful right up until you are left with a couple big tasks to wrap up and you're just waiting for the RNG to let you. I'm not sure what the solution is but the game just wastes too much of the player's time.