To those of you not enjoying the game...

[PersonalC0ffee]

Let me ask you a simple question, yet a deceptive one, much like the game..

How many of you have opened the Orchard Gate? I ask this in honest faith because I feel this is the first step to understanding what the vision is for the game.

I feel this is an incredibly simple thing to do for a new player, probably one of the most vital, and the most likely thing players will stumble upon, should they be exploring properly.

If you haven't even opened this gate than you haven't even BEGUN to scratch the surface of the depth of this game. You really don't know how deep the rabbit hole goes...

You can open that Orchard Gate Day 1 if you know how.

I can confidently tell you that if they did not change anything from the demo in terms of codes or puzzles that I can boot up a brand new save file and open that gate right now having just purchased the game. It is all here in my journal from the demo, which they literally tell you have and to take notes or you won't be getting far.

This is the the major progression and satisfaction of accomplishment the game gives you. It gives you knowledge, that is why it is being compared to Outer Wilds and such.

If you don't understand that, then I'm afraid you've missed the point.

[Shot_Trip]

Nguyên văn bởi jshbckr:

Some minor unmarked spoilers- I’m sure this goes against the principle of the design (especially considering the game does have mechanics to alter rarity of rooms, more steps, day bonuses, etc) but I do think the game’s feeling of progression would benefit from some secret under-the-hood weighting in the player’s favor. For example, many of the puzzles seem to require about three elements, such as darkroom+breaker/bunker+magnifying glass to “solve” and I think if you already have two elements in play then the game should weight the third piece slightly in your favor. It’s “technically” cheating in the player’s favor but developers like Thomas Grip from Frictional Games has spoken before about how Amnesia is tuned to “feel” scarier to the player but is tuned to deliver a specific horror experience and not necessarily be punishingly difficult. I.e. that “close call” with the monster maybe wasn’t actually as close as it felt. Maybe a little like Coyote Time in platformers (still being able to jump when just a hair over the edge of a platform), it’s “cheating” in favor of the player’s experience.

It should be noted you don't need to exit roguelikes to find mechanics like this. Balatro will *always* give you a Buffoon Pack in the first shop, as an example, and there are a few Jokers that don't spawn if they are *completely* irrelevant. Enter the Gungeon has incredibly predictable Gun / Item drop behavior that you can literally force. Multiple traditional roguelikes, which are known for their high difficulty, tend to have quiet but noticable helping hands to prevent early unfortunate losses.

Blue Prince is like if you played Void Stranger and the floors and NPCs were randomized.

[PersonalC0ffee]

Nguyên văn bởi Cloudy Rosefield:

Vast over-reliance on RNG. I'm on day 83 and have NEVER even seen an orchard, pump room, sauna, or any of the other "special" rooms, despite a plethora of clues pointing to them...seen Foundation once, never have had the ability to get back to it. RNG does not make something fun because it adds randomness...it blocks progression in random ways and causes a percentage of the playerbase to essentially never partake in certain game elements. I have zero desire to run around Very Slowly hoping beyond hope that RNG decides to not suck this next run. Despite what others have said, the player actually has almost no way to beat or mitigate the RNG grind in this game.

THE ORCHARD IS NOT A ROOM

[Naecabon]

Nguyên văn bởi PersonalC0ffee:

Nguyên văn bởi Cloudy Rosefield:

Vast over-reliance on RNG. I'm on day 83 and have NEVER even seen an orchard, pump room, sauna, or any of the other "special" rooms, despite a plethora of clues pointing to them...seen Foundation once, never have had the ability to get back to it. RNG does not make something fun because it adds randomness...it blocks progression in random ways and causes a percentage of the playerbase to essentially never partake in certain game elements. I have zero desire to run around Very Slowly hoping beyond hope that RNG decides to not suck this next run. Despite what others have said, the player actually has almost no way to beat or mitigate the RNG grind in this game.

THE ORCHARD IS NOT A ROOM

[Shot_Trip]

Nguyên văn bởi Naecabon:

Nguyên văn bởi PersonalC0ffee:

THE ORCHARD IS NOT A ROOM

bro doesn't understand a point reiterated like five times in this thread, lol

The point is that the entry code to the orchard requires three different random pulls: The magnifying glass, the Dark Room, and the Breaker Box. If you fail to pull all three on the same run, you don't get the code. This isn't uncommon among Blue Prince's puzzles, to be honest, in fact the only puzzles you might be able to solve without at least two components are single room puzzles.

All the methods to combat RNG? Also RNG dependent. All the rooms and tools that allow you to enhance future runs? RNG dependent. All the discoveries leading to permanent upgrades?

RNG dependent.

Most roguelikes, with perfect play, see an impossible seed as a failure, a bug, something to design out.
Blue Prince sees it as a design ethos.

[PersonalC0ffee]

Not ALWAYS

but

It is unavoidable in a roguelite and I'm sorry you don't like to hear that, but that is the truth. Roguelite can end your run because of RNG, it doesn't matter how good you think you are. It is an unavoidable staple of the series and result of using rng. You can bring up any example and you can still lose because of rng, just with bp you lose harder faster because it takes no prisoners.

Apparently, there was a bug with the drop rate of the battery. You need that to make the electromagnet and without that electromagnet, the puzzle that I'm sure MOST of you are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about because it is a standout case of the worst of rng, is unsolvable without MUCH frustration. It is next to impossible to draft the rooms necessary to link the lab to the boiler, without tuning the drop rates of the rooms with the wrench and using the electromagnet to literally pull them from the draft pool.

[Luminous Centipede]

Nguyên văn bởi PersonalC0ffee:

Not ALWAYS

but

It is unavoidable in a roguelite and I'm sorry you don't like to hear that, but that is the truth. Roguelite can end your run because of RNG, it doesn't matter how good you think you are. It is an unavoidable staple of the series and result of using rng. You can bring up any example and you can still lose because of rng, just with bp you lose harder faster because it takes no prisoners.

Apparently, there was a bug with the drop rate of the battery. You need that to make the electromagnet and without that electromagnet, the puzzle that I'm sure MOST of you are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about because it is a standout case of the worst of rng, is unsolvable without MUCH frustration. It is next to impossible to draft the rooms necessary to link the lab to the boiler, without tuning the drop rates of the rooms with the wrench and using the electromagnet to literally pull them from the draft pool.

If RNG can make you fail a run this consistently in a roguelike, it is bad at being a roguelike. The RNG in a roguelike should make things feel replayable, it shouldn't be the enemy of the damn game, the thing you are fighting the most.

[PersonalC0ffee]

Sorry but no

I'm shutting this one down.

Everyone needs to go read this thread and ruminate.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1569580/discussions/0/830459500313983502/

[Luminous Centipede]

Nguyên văn bởi PersonalC0ffee:

Sorry but no

I'm shutting this one down.

Everyone needs to go read this thread and ruminate.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1569580/discussions/0/830459500313983502/

This thread, like all the other things you've attempted to use to "shut down" the argument about bad RNG yet again talks about mechanics that are ALSO BEHIND LAYERS OF RNG. I do not know how you aren't comprehending that people aren't able to get the mechanics that mitigate RNG because they aren't rolling well. Its clear you like the game but you genuinely not being able to accept the criticism that the RNG is actively hurting the game is wild.

[PersonalC0ffee]

I'm not shutting down nothing.

I disagree with this narrative that the RNG is such a problem. It is there, doesn't bother me.

I created this thread as a way to flip the switch back on for those who maybe went into blue prince with the wrong mindset.

All it has frankly done is turned me back off to playing Outer Wilds because of the way your community has been acting toward this game's dev team.

[Luminous Centipede]

Nguyên văn bởi PersonalC0ffee:

I'm not shutting down nothing.

I disagree with this narrative that the RNG is such a problem. It is there, doesn't bother me.

I created this thread as a way to flip the switch back on for those who maybe went into blue prince with the wrong mindset.

All it has frankly done is turned me back off to playing Outer Wilds because of the way your community has been acting toward this game's dev team.

Dude I've literally never even played Outer Worlds.

[PersonalC0ffee]

Nguyên văn bởi Luminous Centipede:

Nguyên văn bởi PersonalC0ffee:

I'm not shutting down nothing.

I disagree with this narrative that the RNG is such a problem. It is there, doesn't bother me.

I created this thread as a way to flip the switch back on for those who maybe went into blue prince with the wrong mindset.

All it has frankly done is turned me back off to playing Outer Wilds because of the way your community has been acting toward this game's dev team.

Dude I've literally never even played Outer Worlds.

Outer Worlds is not Outer Wilds.

That being said MANY of them have and they have descended en masse onto this community and its dev team. Did you see the discord Day 1?

[Luminous Centipede]

Nguyên văn bởi PersonalC0ffee:

Nguyên văn bởi Luminous Centipede:

Dude I've literally never even played Outer Worlds.

Outer Worlds is not Outer Wilds.

That being said MANY of them have and they have descended en masse onto this community and its dev team. Did you see the discord Day 1?

Correction edit: I HAVE played Outer Worlds, I just found it so boring I forgot I did, lol.

Fine then, I've never played Outer Wilds, either? I don't agree with anyone attacking the devs, and it sucks that they would, but I don't usually join discords for games that I want to play blind, so no, I didn't.

[PersonalC0ffee]

Nguyên văn bởi Luminous Centipede:

Nguyên văn bởi PersonalC0ffee:

Outer Worlds is not Outer Wilds.

That being said MANY of them have and they have descended en masse onto this community and its dev team. Did you see the discord Day 1?

Fine then, I've never played Outer Wilds, either? I don't agree with anyone attacking the devs, and it sucks that they would, but I don't usually join discords for games that I want to play blind, so no, I didn't.

OH it wasn't just the discord. It is basically everywhere the game could be discussed.

Well apparently we SHOULD play Outer Wilds cause apparently it is way better than blue prince. That's what I heard anyway.

[Luminous Centipede]

Nguyên văn bởi PersonalC0ffee:

Nguyên văn bởi Luminous Centipede:

Fine then, I've never played Outer Wilds, either? I don't agree with anyone attacking the devs, and it sucks that they would, but I don't usually join discords for games that I want to play blind, so no, I didn't.

OH it wasn't just the discord. It is basically everywhere the game could be discussed.

Well apparently we SHOULD play Outer Wilds cause apparently it is way better than blue prince. That's what I heard anyway.

That sucks then, and I can def see what you mean in that regard. I like Blue Prince, even with my (I'm sure quite apparent ATP) issues with the RNG.

TBH I'm not a fan of the way many games are discussed in regards to their devs, I don't think if someone doesn't like a game or has an issue with game mechanics that they should just attack the devs, rather than criticize the issues they have with the game. How is a dev supposed to improve if they don't actually know what the problem people are having with their game is?

[PersonalC0ffee]

Nguyên văn bởi Luminous Centipede:

Nguyên văn bởi PersonalC0ffee:

OH it wasn't just the discord. It is basically everywhere the game could be discussed.

Well apparently we SHOULD play Outer Wilds cause apparently it is way better than blue prince. That's what I heard anyway.

That sucks then, and I can def see what you mean in that regard. I like Blue Prince, even with my (I'm sure quite apparent ATP) issues with the RNG.

TBH I'm not a fan of the way many games are discussed in regards to their devs, I don't think if someone doesn't like a game or has an issue with game mechanics that they should just attack the devs, rather than criticize the issues they have with the game. How is a dev supposed to improve if they don't actually know what the problem people are having with their game is?

They can't. How could anyone?

You are still playing even though you have such issues with the RNG?