Parlor puzzle I'm apparently too stupid for (slight spoilers)

[Finlay]

After many fun parlor puzzles (and admittedly some mistakes, which I was able to understand after opening the wrong box), I finally encountered one that I cannot solve.

I've gone through the statements multiple times, and I always come to the conclusion that the gems can be either in the blue or white box while satisfying all rules.

I do understand from previous puzzles that a false box has at least one false statement, but can also have true statements.

Here's the setup:

Blue: "Both of these statements are true. The gems are in this box."
White: "The gems are not in the blue box. The gems are not in the black box."
Black: "The gems are in a box with a false statement. Both statements on the blue box are true."

My thoughts:

Let's assume the gems are in the black box.

• Its first statement can't be false, otherwise the gems can't be in here, so the first statement is true. This forces its second statement to be false, to make the first statement true. This means black counts as false.
  
• White has one true and one false statement, so white also counts as false.
  
• This means blue is the only true box, but then the gems would have to be in the blue box.

So the gems are not in the black box.

Let's assume the gems are in the white box.

• Both of its statements are true, so white is true.
  
• Blue's statements are both false, so blue is false.
  
• Black's first statement is false, since the gems are in a box with only true statements. Black's second statement is true. So black is false.

So the gems can be in the white box.

Let's assume the gems are in the blue box.

• The gems are in this box, and both of its statements are true, so blue is true.
  
• The first statement is false, the second statement is true, so white counts as false.
  
• The first statement is false, the second statement is true, so black counts as false

So the gems can be in the blue box.
Of note here: It is possible to make blue's first statement false, making the blue box count as false and thus having 3 false boxes. But since the above also seems to be valid with both statements being true, I feel like this shouldn't be the deciding factor, right?

I'd appreciate if someone could point out where I made a mistake, or nudging me in the right direction, but I also don't mind if you just outright tell me the solution.
I just want to keep full understanding of the parlor puzzle, not only to get the gems, but also because it's just fun :)

[x_equals_speed]

I made this mistake also, your previous understanding is incorrect (but holds up for 95% of the boxes so it can take a while to find out that it's wrong)

[LaChouette]

Read the paper with the rules again. You've clearly missed something about the ruleset.

[PersonalC0ffee]

If only the guy that made the mora jai box solver would make the parlor solver

[Silyon]

The gems cannot be in the Blue Box, as that line of logic would leave you with two boxes with "Mixed" truth values. Which is the same as having no False box.

The gems are in the White box, as that scenario is the only one in which you end up with a completely true box and a completely false box.

[Game Judge James]

Just from a cursory glance and initial thought process. To satisfy the 1 must be true, and at least one must be false (on a per box basis)----this would indicate (to me) that both the black and blue boxes contain false statements. This can easily be satisfied by then assuming if black and blue are both false, then white must be true. White says the gems are not in the black box or the blue box. Assuming this is true, then the gems are in the white box. Not all statements can be true, and not all can be false. If you assume black to be true, then blue must also be true. But blue cannot be true while black is also true, since the black box says the gems are in a box with a false statement, while *simultaneously* saying the statements on the blue box are both true. This is impossible. So, the gems are in the WHITE BOX. Also, in regards to what other people have said about mixed true/false. If a box has two statements and even one of them is false, it means the entire box is false.

[Game Judge James]

"Of note here: It is possible to make blue's first statement false, making the blue box count as false and thus having 3 false boxes." Nope. Both the black and blue boxes can be false while the white box is still totally true.

[Gorlom[Swe]]

Originally posted by Game Judge James:

Also, in regards to what other people have said about mixed true/false. If a box has two statements and even one of them is false, it means the entire box is false.

No. this is a misconception. A box does not count as the "at least one false box" unless ALL statements on it are false.

There is one fully true box, and there is one fully false box. The last box can be either neither (empty statement), fully true, fully false, or can be mixed. If it is mixed it does not "means the entire box is false".

[Finlay]

Whoa... finding out after, what, 60 parlor games? I now learn that I didn't even correctly interpret the core rules, which is a bit shocking :)
Thanks guys, I see my mistake now. It actually clearly says "There will always be at least one box which displays only false statements."

[carllyngholm]

Jesus... nothing to add except if this is the level of complexity I can expect the parlor game to get to (or even harder), then i might just be turning the key and praying. Not saying I COULDN'T solve this given enough time and effort, but based on this example, this is not how I want to spend my time. Kudos for those of you who enjoy this, however.

[Gorlom[Swe]]

Originally posted by carllyngholm:

Jesus... nothing to add except if this is the level of complexity I can expect the parlor game to get to (or even harder), then i might just be turning the key and praying. Not saying I COULDN'T solve this given enough time and effort, but based on this example, this is not how I want to spend my time. Kudos for those of you who enjoy this, however.

There is an upgrade that gives you 2 tries on the boxes.
You might want to use that over the upgrade to get 3 gemsinstead of 2 or the one that gives you gems equal to the number of red rooms in the mansion and punishes you for getting it wrong.

[PersonalC0ffee]

Originally posted by carllyngholm:

Jesus... nothing to add except if this is the level of complexity I can expect the parlor game to get to (or even harder), then i might just be turning the key and praying. Not saying I COULDN'T solve this given enough time and effort, but based on this example, this is not how I want to spend my time. Kudos for those of you who enjoy this, however.

This is why I'm seeking the 2 wind up key upgrade lmao.

[carllyngholm]

Originally posted by GorlomSwe:

Originally posted by carllyngholm:

Jesus... nothing to add except if this is the level of complexity I can expect the parlor game to get to (or even harder), then i might just be turning the key and praying. Not saying I COULDN'T solve this given enough time and effort, but based on this example, this is not how I want to spend my time. Kudos for those of you who enjoy this, however.

There is an upgrade that gives you 2 tries on the boxes.
You might want to use that over the upgrade to get 3 gemsinstead of 2 or the one that gives you gems equal to the number of red rooms in the mansion and punishes you for getting it wrong.

Yes... was already aware of this upgrade. Hope at some point the "magic wheel" will stop on The Parlor, but hasn't happened so far... Thanks anyway...

[Mennan]

I have the red room parlor, if you draft it early you are more likely to get a easier puzzle. You do not need to solve the puzzle instantly however and as you draft more red rooms the reward will still increase.

[Gorlom[Swe]]

Originally posted by Mennan:

I have the red room parlor, if you draft it early you are more likely to get a easier puzzle. You do not need to solve the puzzle instantly however and as you draft more red rooms the reward will still increase.

oooh. i did not know that. Interesting.

[Finlay]

Honestly, after this puzzle (before understanding what I did wrong), I also thought about going for the double parlor key upgrade to increase my chances. But that almost feels like accepting defeat, and I hate to accept defeat in puzzles :D
I'll keep grinding and trying to master this puzzle, and try to earn my gems!