can we please have unlimited rerolls on the outer room?

[rumpelstiltskin]

if it's the first room you draft. if you need a certain room for your run, you just have to restart the day, there's no other option. and it feels like it always takes at least 10 restarts to get a fücking shrine to show up. it's pretty annoying even with my speed mod.

[ffrotty]

IMO they should have made the game have a mode where you have no regular keys / no steps / no gems or coins and can pick from all valid placements of rooms based on position and buy whatever you need as an option.

Then either after various checkpoints you find toggles that add in the various survival mechanics and requirements, OR, just keep the modes separate.



to your statement/request: your odds of getting what you want goes up as you go deeper into the game via a variety of methods. the design pattern is to make it a chore / limited early so that the various ways to make it easier feels like "progression."

however it then requires more time most of the time to do it "legit" than just start the day over.

No idea why there isn't a quickload/quicksave as this would mitigate that and it emulates the sleep cycle anyway. Which is unfortunately the fastest reset since alt-f4 has the slow intro stuff before you're in game.

the rng plagues this game. the main thing it stole from / was inspired by was basically a choose your own adventure book where you had to explore all the branches to find the most efficient one and then read in an order to decipher a meta clue.

This is gamifying that book by adding RNG to it for no reason other than perhaps a dark design pattern of "gambling" making more people compelled / addicted.

This gamification does get some interaction opportunities out of it. Buuuuuuuuuut those come at a massive cost.

[★ MintBrando]

you dont have to go to the outside room right away, especially in your case where you need the shrine, go in the house and get like 2-3 rerolls and you get it

[rumpelstiltskin]

Originally posted by ★ MintBrando:

you dont have to go to the outside room right away, especially in your case where you need the shrine, go in the house and get like 2-3 rerolls and you get it

well getting rerolls in the house and returning will still take longer than retrying immediately. besides, they'd be a resource i'd rather spend on something else.

[★ MintBrando]

Originally posted by rumpelstiltskin:

Originally posted by ★ MintBrando:

you dont have to go to the outside room right away, especially in your case where you need the shrine, go in the house and get like 2-3 rerolls and you get it

well getting rerolls in the house and returning will still take longer than retrying immediately. besides, they'd be a resource i'd rather spend on something else.

i mean it seems like you dont need the shrine instantly (unless you are going for something specific) so you can just detour to solve other puzzles you havent gotten to and just keep the dice for the shrine

[cheshire.panther]

You will grind your puzzle slop and you will like it.

[PersonalC0ffee]

Guys, I'm starting to thing ya'll might not be built for this game.

This game is not going to hold your hand. It is not going to point things out for you constantly. It is not going to give you an objective on where to go. It expects you to take it slow, explore, note things down, and notice things.

It is going to kick you in your nuts, demand you get up, and write it down in your notebook. It ain't going to make things easy for you.

Yes absolutely there are some qol fixes or changes we could get as players but this is not one of them.

Unllimited rerolls for the outer room? Why? You can literally just crash the game. It won't save or you can just call it a day. There's no penalty for calling it a day.

There is no need for this IMO.

[Lactose Intolerant Volcano God]

Originally posted by rumpelstiltskin:

if you need a certain room for your run

Do you ever actually need a certain room for your run?
I think the whole challenge and fun of playing roguelikes is in adapting to the opportunities that each run of the game creates.

You might want to roll a certain room. In a hack-and-slash loot RPG you might really want the Epic Cutlass of Awesomeness to drop, but you learn how to make do with your Mediocre Sword of Disappointment until you find what you want. You learn how to play these types of games by not getting your way.

What's awesome about Blue Prince is that by not being able to choose your rooms, it helps you discover synergies and clues that you wouldn't otherwise find. So not only do you build skills at drafting, but you uncover the game story.

[Lactose Intolerant Volcano God]

Originally posted by ffrotty:

the rng plagues this game.

I'd say it makes this game a masterpiece, but to each their own.

[Vercci ]

Originally posted by rumpelstiltskin:

well getting rerolls in the house and returning will still take longer than retrying immediately. besides, they'd be a resource i'd rather spend on something else.

Your house history is saved. Do you really wanna pollute it with Abandoned Project?

[Varsoon]

Just use Castle-King or Scepter to force the Outer Room you want.

[PersonalC0ffee]

Originally posted by Lactose Intolerant Volcano God:

Originally posted by rumpelstiltskin:

if you need a certain room for your run

Do you ever actually need a certain room for your run?
I think the whole challenge and fun of playing roguelikes is in adapting to the opportunities that each run of the game creates.

You might want to roll a certain room. In a hack-and-slash loot RPG you might really want the Epic Cutlass of Awesomeness to drop, but you learn how to make do with your Mediocre Sword of Disappointment until you find what you want. You learn how to play these types of games by not getting your way.

What's awesome about Blue Prince is that by not being able to choose your rooms, it helps you discover synergies and clues that you wouldn't otherwise find. So not only do you build skills at drafting, but you uncover the game story.

People don't/can't/won't understand this very simple point. They have tik tok brain and just want now results.

Well you ain't getting that with this game. Quite frankly shouldn't get it with any game. That's part of the problem. Chasing dopamine for the sake of chasing dopamine.

[Lactose Intolerant Volcano God]

Originally posted by PersonalC0ffee:

People don't/can't/won't understand this very simple point. They have tik tok brain and just want now results.

Yeah, it's frustrating to read some posts. But I don't blame people. If you come from a background of linear adventure/puzzle games, then Blue Prince would be hugely difficult to play at first. I think it would seem like terrible game design and that it "doesn't respect my time" as some players suggest.

Then for other players who've come from fast-paced roguelite games like Vampire Survivors, that give meta-progression rewards for every attempt of a game, Blue Prince might seem punishing and unrewarding. Again, it "doesn't respect my time".

But if you are used to games where you can make an attempt, fail, and get nothing as a reward, then you don't have this problem. Then you already understand that learning how to play the game is the game. And it's why a lot of us get a huge amount of joy and satisfaction from these sorts of games - because the mechanics are challenging, and it takes time for us to build enough skill in the game to eventually succeed.

Blue Prince, being a new sort of hybrid game, is going to attract players will all sorts of gaming backgrounds and expectations. Some will have preconceived ideas about how a game should work and how they should be rewarded for their effort. When Blue Prince fails to deliver that, they will complain and say the game is wrong in some way.

Regardless, Blue Prince has created a new hybrid genre. The next game that follows will find it easier to attract its target market, and players will have clearer expectations. Just as we talk about games like Diablo, Rimworld, or Slay the Spire as popular prototypes that define or typify genres, Blue Prince will become a known style. I think future games will be marketed as being like Blue Prince to attract players, and so people who want that sort of gaming challenge will be attracted.

[PersonalC0ffee]

Bah, you actually counter argued me perfectly. I can't say anything back.

[der.dida83]

Originally posted by ffrotty:

IMO they should have made the game have a mode where you have no regular keys / no steps / no gems or coins and can pick from all valid placements of rooms based on position and buy whatever you need as an option.

Then either after various checkpoints you find toggles that add in the various survival mechanics and requirements, OR, just keep the modes separate.



to your statement/request: your odds of getting what you want goes up as you go deeper into the game via a variety of methods. the design pattern is to make it a chore / limited early so that the various ways to make it easier feels like "progression."

however it then requires more time most of the time to do it "legit" than just start the day over.

No idea why there isn't a quickload/quicksave as this would mitigate that and it emulates the sleep cycle anyway. Which is unfortunately the fastest reset since alt-f4 has the slow intro stuff before you're in game.

the rng plagues this game. the main thing it stole from / was inspired by was basically a choose your own adventure book where you had to explore all the branches to find the most efficient one and then read in an order to decipher a meta clue.

This is gamifying that book by adding RNG to it for no reason other than perhaps a dark design pattern of "gambling" making more people compelled / addicted.

This gamification does get some interaction opportunities out of it. Buuuuuuuuuut those come at a massive cost.

Yes, they could really give you the option. It wouldn't hurt anyone. If someone likes the" gambling"concept and/or has a lot of patience they can keep it, otherwise you could just throw out all the pointless RNG (or at least most of it)

[rumpelstiltskin]

Originally posted by Lactose Intolerant Volcano God:

Originally posted by rumpelstiltskin:

if you need a certain room for your run

Do you ever actually need a certain room for your run?
I think the whole challenge and fun of playing roguelikes is in adapting to the opportunities that each run of the game creates.

yes at some point you do need a certain room. when there's not much left and/or you really want to advance a specific line. i get that rng is the crux of the game, so i'm not saying they should get rid of it altogether (since honestly what's left won't be a particularly great puzzle game), but in this case immediate rerun is just your mathematically best option, so why not acknowledge it and streamline it a bit.