Blue Prince

Blue Prince

View Stats:
Gem-Box-Puzzle with no valid solution? (spoiler warning)
Here are the boxes in question, straight from the game:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3468099521
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3468099387

Blue: The empty boxes both have true statements.
White: The blue box has a true statement.
Black: This box contains the gems.

Possible non-contradictionary true/value combinations:
T F F: invalid, blue and white are both true or both false
F T F: invalid, blue and white are both true or both false
F F T: invalid, if black is true, blue and white are empty and thus both true
T T F: invalid, if blue and white are empty, black contains the gems and is thus true
F T T: invalid, white and blue are both true or both false
T F T: invalid, white and blue are both true or both false

As far as I can tell, there are no valid answers at all here. Any ideas?
< >
Showing 1-15 of 16 comments
Adarealle Apr 21 @ 10:07am 
"F F T: invalid, if black is true, blue and white are empty and thus both true" If blue was false, then the empty boxes don't have to be true, so this is a valid solution.
Swede Apr 21 @ 10:11am 
Originally posted by Adarealle:
"F F T: invalid, if black is true, blue and white are empty and thus both true" If blue was false, then the empty boxes don't have to be true, so this is a valid solution.

But in that solution:
Blue is empty.
White is empty.
Black has the gems.

Blue can be viewed as true, there is nothing making it false.
White can be viewed as true, there is nothing making it false.
Black is objectively true.

I hate it but technically this is the best "correct answer", thank you.
Swede Apr 21 @ 10:13am 
I went back and opened the Black box, and it indeed held the gems:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3468119017
Adarealle Apr 21 @ 10:45am 
Originally posted by Swede:
Originally posted by Adarealle:
"F F T: invalid, if black is true, blue and white are empty and thus both true" If blue was false, then the empty boxes don't have to be true, so this is a valid solution.

But in that solution:
Blue is empty.
White is empty.
Black has the gems.

Blue can be viewed as true, there is nothing making it false.
White can be viewed as true, there is nothing making it false.
Black is objectively true.

I hate it but technically this is the best "correct answer", thank you.
Here's how I would think through it:
In the case where black was true:
Then if blue were true, then white would also be true, making all true, impossible
If blue was false, white is false and it is in black.
In the case where black was false:
If blue was true, then white is true, meaning all the boxes are empty, contradiction
If blue was false, then white is false, all are false, impossible
Vardis Apr 21 @ 10:55am 
Originally posted by Swede:
Originally posted by Adarealle:
"F F T: invalid, if black is true, blue and white are empty and thus both true" If blue was false, then the empty boxes don't have to be true, so this is a valid solution.

But in that solution:
Blue is empty.
White is empty.
Black has the gems.

Blue can be viewed as true, there is nothing making it false.
White can be viewed as true, there is nothing making it false.
Black is objectively true.

I hate it but technically this is the best "correct answer", thank you.

I think you're forgetting the full rules. One box has gems, at least one box always lies, and at least one box always tells the truth.

If blue is true, then you have two empty boxes with true statements and one lying box with gems. But if blue is true, white is true and both are empty. Then black has to both be false and have gems, which isn't a valid scenario.
Badgerlord Apr 21 @ 10:59am 
There are days where I wish I had taken the "2 keys" room upgrade... because like... most of the time I am terrible at this one and just guess. It's a 1/3 chance for me most of the time!
Swede Apr 21 @ 11:09am 
Originally posted by Badgerlord:
There are days where I wish I had taken the "2 keys" room upgrade... because like... most of the time I am terrible at this one and just guess. It's a 1/3 chance for me most of the time!

Honestly this is the first puzzle out of 40+ that I've found questionable. I always fully enumerate the possibilities as above and it has always been very clear what box contains the gems once the work's done, so you might try that. It really simplifies things.

Used to do it in my head but that caused mistakes so now I do it on a piece of paper, just to nail it.
Last edited by Swede; Apr 21 @ 11:10am
Swede Apr 21 @ 11:20am 
I'm trying to define to myself why I find this objectionable, so let me write it out:

Blue: The empty boxes both have true statements.

If we disregard the other two boxes, this statement can be simplified to:
Blue: This empty box has a true statement.

Now according to the logic of this solution, the blue box could be both False and empty at the same time, so the truth or falsehood of the statement has nothing to do with the contents of the box or any of the other boxes. It is equal parts True and False, and all that matters is whether it is convenient for me for it to be true or for it to be false.

For the truth of a box to be defined by whether it's required to be true, or required to be false, for there to even be a solution at all, feels like a violation of the spirit of the game. Truth no longer comes from within the game, but externally.

It's a valid perspective, I just don't like it.
Last edited by Swede; Apr 21 @ 11:21am
Badgerlord Apr 21 @ 11:22am 
So I took a look at this one and actually tried to solve it:

The Gems are in the black box. Blue Box is false and White box is true. Kind of. The way I interrupter this is that you have to... reword the blue box to be written instead as "An Empty box has a True Statement" and "An empty box has a True Statement" It may seem silly, but splitting it into 2 of the same statement, can make the White Box also true, while the blue box remains technically false.

So, if you look at the White Box, it says the Blue Box has A (Emphasis on A true statement). That means that one of statements on Blue is true, but not ALL of it is true. So White, is marked as True. Blue now is marked as the false box, because while it's technically got A SINGLE true statement on it, the entire statement isn't true, so it's false. And after which, the only answer that actually makes sense is that the gems are in the black box.

ALTERNATIVELY. Sometimes I look at this puzzle and go. "Only one of these boxes actually tells me where the gems ARE. If it's a lie, then it's a completely guess otherwise and the game wouldn't do that... so it's in the black box.

If they aren't in the black box. Then I do not understand the game. The reason I still prefer to guess... is this takes too long for the 3 gems it contains that I usually don't need! :P
Swede Apr 21 @ 11:25am 
This room has a tendency to always be one of the first ones drawn, I think it has a higher weight around the start of the game or something. The gems here are ones that show up when you really need the first couple gems to get a run started..along with Den, Walk-In Closet and Hallway Closet (in my case).
Vardis Apr 21 @ 11:38am 
Originally posted by Swede:
I'm trying to define to myself why I find this objectionable, so let me write it out:

Blue: The empty boxes both have true statements.

If we disregard the other two boxes, this statement can be simplified to:
Blue: This empty box has a true statement.

Now according to the logic of this solution, the blue box could be both False and empty at the same time, so the truth or falsehood of the statement has nothing to do with the contents of the box or any of the other boxes. It is equal parts True and False, and all that matters is whether it is convenient for me for it to be true or for it to be false.

For the truth of a box to be defined by whether it's required to be true, or required to be false, for there to even be a solution at all, feels like a violation of the spirit of the game. Truth no longer comes from within the game, but externally.

It's a valid perspective, I just don't like it.

I wouldn't consider the rules of the game to be "external" to the game.

There are cases where the messages are something like:
  • This is the middle box
  • The gems are in this box
  • This is the middle box

If you don't have the rule that says at least one box is telling the truth, how do you solve this?
Last edited by Vardis; Apr 21 @ 11:44am
Nokturnal Apr 21 @ 12:15pm 
Originally posted by Badgerlord:
So I took a look at this one and actually tried to solve it:

The Gems are in the black box. Blue Box is false and White box is true. Kind of. The way I interrupter this is that you have to... reword the blue box to be written instead as "An Empty box has a True Statement" and "An empty box has a True Statement" It may seem silly, but splitting it into 2 of the same statement, can make the White Box also true, while the blue box remains technically false.

So, if you look at the White Box, it says the Blue Box has A (Emphasis on A true statement). That means that one of statements on Blue is true, but not ALL of it is true. So White, is marked as True. Blue now is marked as the false box, because while it's technically got A SINGLE true statement on it, the entire statement isn't true, so it's false. And after which, the only answer that actually makes sense is that the gems are in the black box.

ALTERNATIVELY. Sometimes I look at this puzzle and go. "Only one of these boxes actually tells me where the gems ARE. If it's a lie, then it's a completely guess otherwise and the game wouldn't do that... so it's in the black box.

If they aren't in the black box. Then I do not understand the game. The reason I still prefer to guess... is this takes too long for the 3 gems it contains that I usually don't need! :P

The way the game explains the rules is 1 Box must be False, 1 Box must be True. Other than that, 2 can be false or 2 can be true, but 3 can never be true and 3 can never be false according to the rules.

In this set of boxes the OP has shown. The Gems are in Black.

Now let's analyze each statement. Black Box is True, the gems are in there. Blue Box: If True, The empty boxes are telling the truth. White Box: Also if True, the Blue box is correct, but this can't be the answer as then all 3 would be telling the truth.

Now if Blue and White are both false, that leaves Black as the only truth.

They aren't false in saying that they are empty, they are false in saying that they are a true statement. A false box might as well have nothing written on it because it's just lies.

Even if you thought Black was False and Blue and White were True, that'd still point you to opening Black lol. Because if they were telling the truth, then they'd both be empty.
Last edited by Nokturnal; Apr 21 @ 12:29pm
Originally posted by Badgerlord:
There are days where I wish I had taken the "2 keys" room upgrade... because like... most of the time I am terrible at this one and just guess. It's a 1/3 chance for me most of the time!
Yeah, i have way better ways of getting gems than the parlor even with the +1 gem upgrade, so when it gets to all 3 boxes having 3 statements, it's no longer fun, and I just guess.
Last edited by Rotting Pastry; Apr 22 @ 6:06am
Theta Apr 22 @ 9:13pm 
Originally posted by Swede:
Here are the boxes in question, straight from the game:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3468099521
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3468099387

Blue: The empty boxes both have true statements.
White: The blue box has a true statement.
Black: This box contains the gems.

Possible non-contradictionary true/value combinations:
T F F: invalid, blue and white are both true or both false
F T F: invalid, blue and white are both true or both false
F F T: invalid, if black is true, blue and white are empty and thus both true
T T F: invalid, if blue and white are empty, black contains the gems and is thus true
F T T: invalid, white and blue are both true or both false
T F T: invalid, white and blue are both true or both false

As far as I can tell, there are no valid answers at all here. Any ideas?

This particular puzzle does not have that many possible combinations. A truth table is not necessary. There are only two possible combinations because the white box has only two possible states and both of these states force the remaining states.

If white is true then blue is true. This is invalid because it forces the gems into the black box where they cannot be because black must be false.

If white is false then blue is false. Now you don’t care at all about the logic of the blue box because black must be true and thus the gems are in this box.

The truth table approach often vastly increases the complexity of the parlor puzzle. Often times the parlor puzzle can be reduced to the two states of a single box. You don’t need to concern yourself with any of the remaining possible configurations because there are no possible configurations where the truthiness of white and blue cannot be the same.

It’s rare even in the case where the number of statements increases that you can’t simply solve the parlor by picking a box with the highest complexity and testing all statements being true or all statements being false. This very frequently is plenty of information to find the gems without needing to consider any other possibilities.
DrBoop! Apr 23 @ 12:07am 
I took a look at this and I found it pretty easy to solve, I think people are over complicating it like Theta mentioned.

I believe I ended up solving it the exact same way they did.

I took a look at the truth of WHITE first, as it forces the truth of another box.

If WHITE is TRUE
-> BLUE *must* be TRUE
-> BLACK *must* be FALSE (based on game rules)
=> BLUE says BLUE and WHITE are empty, BLACK being FALSE says BLACK is empty, impossible

Then WHITE *must* be FALSE
-> BLUE *must* be FALSE ("it is false that the empty boxes *both* have true statements", so basically at least 1 or more of the empty boxes are false)
-> BLACK *must* be TRUE (based on game rules)
=> literally just tells you its in black at that point
< >
Showing 1-15 of 16 comments
Per page: 1530 50