SPOILER DISCUSSION Dangling Plot Threads

[Minim]

Okay, so I finished the game and I'm a meticulous note taker. As such, I feel there are a few gaps in the plot that can't be resolved with the non-answers the game gives.

Supposedly we were contacted Silent Hill style by our wife to come back to town and finish what we started 20 years ago - same thing is happening to other people in the town, like the researcher lady being contacted by her dead sister- either dredge her up or throw her back. We come here under the *pretense* of being a simple Angler as our alter ego the Collector gets to work. When we get here, the Lighthouse Lady acts extremely passive aggressive at us and doesn't tell us anything (fair enough, why would she assume we lost our memories?)

The last angler is presumed to be Magran the Fish Man - who is known as the Fanatic in game. Seemingly he was the one who found the Watch which kept him from dying of hunger or old age. "Suspended in time" as the game might say. The Mayor comments that he was unreliable and spent a lot of time at the basin at night before disappearing. The Ingfell Residents last recall him rambling about immortality before slashing their nets and disappearing - presumably he is one of the parties responsible for the state the Basin is in.

I bring that up because it is a reach on my part that the game seems to be taking liberties with - we never get confirmation of who our predecessor was and we are deliberately led to believe it is the Collector, as he fits the profile. Relatively young, claims to be a fisherman, seems to have lived here longer than us, the kind of guy that would summon Cthulhu during work hours. A classic case of misdirection that is just solid enough to be excused.

Not everything can be explained away that way though. The biggest problem is that the Angler was friends with the Mayor of Little Marrow - everyone knows the tale - but no one recognizes us? Really? Even with 20 years of age, the fish monger and the mayor of marrow, and the trader - all men we would have spoken with way back when - none of them can recognize a guy well known for hanging out with the old mayor?A small town like that would eat up gossip and rumors. There are so many people in this game over the age of 40, who were alive to know the company the Old Mayor kept. Yet none except the Lighthouse Lady even suggest that they know anything about us.

Another problem is that we never get a reason for the Angler doing... any of this. "To resurrect his wife" No. That's not what started him on this path. Why was he looking for the book? Why did his wife die? That second one you can assume that the Deep took her to motivate the release of Her when they found the book, but that doesn't seem to be what the game implies. The game seems to be framing this as the Angler murdering the wife in some way - the old mayor even says the book is covered in her blood (though that may be a turn of phrase). The likelier supposition is that the Deep did something to the Angler, akin to what the Mind Suckers did to the Airman. Hence why one of the messages before the wife died said her husband's eyes were filled with "the void".

But above all, I'm not sold on the solution to this tale. "Throw it back" the game says, and it works, but I'm not convinced it should have. This evil is established to predate the town and presumably the book. It already brought down one civilization when their lighthouse was destroyed by a volcano, allowing the evil to prey on it's people. Maybe it is some cautionary tale about thinking you can control the power of the deep, but we find out so little about the civilization that is impossible to say if they were fighting the evil back or trying to control it.

All of this is further exacerbated when you realize we are not the only ones active in the occult. The Mayor of Greater Marrow, the Dockworker, the Fishmonger, the Fanatic, the Hooded Figures. All of these parties seem to be engaging in their own shenanigans separate from the book. Just a shame we never get to see *what* they're up to. And that's to say nothing of the monsters unleashed on the world. The mountains of mutated fish. I don't know guys, I'm not convinced this is over because we threw a book in a pond and allowed ourselves to be eaten by Godzilla's classmate. (For some reason - I felt like our guy should have lived with the consequences of his actions, wasn't that the whole point?)

[tempast2003]

Originally posted by Minim:

Okay, so I finished the game and I'm a meticulous note taker. As such, I feel there are a few gaps in the plot that can't be resolved with the non-answers the game gives.

Supposedly we were contacted Silent Hill style by our wife to come back to town and finish what we started 20 years ago - same thing is happening to other people in the town, like the researcher lady being contacted by her dead sister- either dredge her up or throw her back. We come here under the *pretense* of being a simple Angler as our alter ego the Collector gets to work. When we get here, the Lighthouse Lady acts extremely passive aggressive at us and doesn't tell us anything (fair enough, why would she assume we lost our memories?)

The last angler is presumed to be Magran the Fish Man - who is known as the Fanatic in game. Seemingly he was the one who found the Watch which kept him from dying of hunger or old age. "Suspended in time" as the game might say. The Mayor comments that he was unreliable and spent a lot of time at the basin at night before disappearing. The Ingfell Residents last recall him rambling about immortality before slashing their nets and disappearing - presumably he is one of the parties responsible for the state the Basin is in.

I bring that up because it is a reach on my part that the game seems to be taking liberties with - we never get confirmation of who our predecessor was and we are deliberately led to believe it is the Collector, as he fits the profile. Relatively young, claims to be a fisherman, seems to have lived here longer than us, the kind of guy that would summon Cthulhu during work hours. A classic case of misdirection that is just solid enough to be excused.

Not everything can be explained away that way though. The biggest problem is that the Angler was friends with the Mayor of Little Marrow - everyone knows the tale - but no one recognizes us? Really? Even with 20 years of age, the fish monger and the mayor of marrow, and the trader - all men we would have spoken with way back when - none of them can recognize a guy well known for hanging out with the old mayor?A small town like that would eat up gossip and rumors. There are so many people in this game over the age of 40, who were alive to know the company the Old Mayor kept. Yet none except the Lighthouse Lady even suggest that they know anything about us.

Another problem is that we never get a reason for the Angler doing... any of this. "To resurrect his wife" No. That's not what started him on this path. Why was he looking for the book? Why did his wife die? That second one you can assume that the Deep took her to motivate the release of Her when they found the book, but that doesn't seem to be what the game implies. The game seems to be framing this as the Angler murdering the wife in some way - the old mayor even says the book is covered in her blood (though that may be a turn of phrase). The likelier supposition is that the Deep did something to the Angler, akin to what the Mind Suckers did to the Airman. Hence why one of the messages before the wife died said her husband's eyes were filled with "the void".

But above all, I'm not sold on the solution to this tale. "Throw it back" the game says, and it works, but I'm not convinced it should have. This evil is established to predate the town and presumably the book. It already brought down one civilization when their lighthouse was destroyed by a volcano, allowing the evil to prey on it's people. Maybe it is some cautionary tale about thinking you can control the power of the deep, but we find out so little about the civilization that is impossible to say if they were fighting the evil back or trying to control it.

All of this is further exacerbated when you realize we are not the only ones active in the occult. The Mayor of Greater Marrow, the Dockworker, the Fishmonger, the Fanatic, the Hooded Figures. All of these parties seem to be engaging in their own shenanigans separate from the book. Just a shame we never get to see *what* they're up to. And that's to say nothing of the monsters unleashed on the world. The mountains of mutated fish. I don't know guys, I'm not convinced this is over because we threw a book in a pond and allowed ourselves to be eaten by Godzilla's classmate. (For some reason - I felt like our guy should have lived with the consequences of his actions, wasn't that the whole point?)

I read a bit of this but didn't want to spoil it any further for myself however I would like to just add some consideration with this game. Theme seems very Lovecraftian horrorish in atmosphere setting and dialog for the most part. No means do I intent to justify any possible dangling plot or provide excuse for lazy/sloppy handling of a story if it were even the case. (No accusations here against the writers) That said madness seems to be an ongoing theme with Lovecraft and fans of the works. So what I'm getting at is therein could be part if not all of the explanation.

[Minim]

Originally posted by tempast2003:

Originally posted by Minim:

Okay, so I finished the game and I'm a meticulous note taker. As such, I feel there are a few gaps in the plot that can't be resolved with the non-answers the game gives.

Supposedly we were contacted Silent Hill style by our wife to come back to town and finish what we started 20 years ago - same thing is happening to other people in the town, like the researcher lady being contacted by her dead sister- either dredge her up or throw her back. We come here under the *pretense* of being a simple Angler as our alter ego the Collector gets to work. When we get here, the Lighthouse Lady acts extremely passive aggressive at us and doesn't tell us anything (fair enough, why would she assume we lost our memories?)

The last angler is presumed to be Magran the Fish Man - who is known as the Fanatic in game. Seemingly he was the one who found the Watch which kept him from dying of hunger or old age. "Suspended in time" as the game might say. The Mayor comments that he was unreliable and spent a lot of time at the basin at night before disappearing. The Ingfell Residents last recall him rambling about immortality before slashing their nets and disappearing - presumably he is one of the parties responsible for the state the Basin is in.

I bring that up because it is a reach on my part that the game seems to be taking liberties with - we never get confirmation of who our predecessor was and we are deliberately led to believe it is the Collector, as he fits the profile. Relatively young, claims to be a fisherman, seems to have lived here longer than us, the kind of guy that would summon Cthulhu during work hours. A classic case of misdirection that is just solid enough to be excused.

Not everything can be explained away that way though. The biggest problem is that the Angler was friends with the Mayor of Little Marrow - everyone knows the tale - but no one recognizes us? Really? Even with 20 years of age, the fish monger and the mayor of marrow, and the trader - all men we would have spoken with way back when - none of them can recognize a guy well known for hanging out with the old mayor?A small town like that would eat up gossip and rumors. There are so many people in this game over the age of 40, who were alive to know the company the Old Mayor kept. Yet none except the Lighthouse Lady even suggest that they know anything about us.

Another problem is that we never get a reason for the Angler doing... any of this. "To resurrect his wife" No. That's not what started him on this path. Why was he looking for the book? Why did his wife die? That second one you can assume that the Deep took her to motivate the release of Her when they found the book, but that doesn't seem to be what the game implies. The game seems to be framing this as the Angler murdering the wife in some way - the old mayor even says the book is covered in her blood (though that may be a turn of phrase). The likelier supposition is that the Deep did something to the Angler, akin to what the Mind Suckers did to the Airman. Hence why one of the messages before the wife died said her husband's eyes were filled with "the void".

But above all, I'm not sold on the solution to this tale. "Throw it back" the game says, and it works, but I'm not convinced it should have. This evil is established to predate the town and presumably the book. It already brought down one civilization when their lighthouse was destroyed by a volcano, allowing the evil to prey on it's people. Maybe it is some cautionary tale about thinking you can control the power of the deep, but we find out so little about the civilization that is impossible to say if they were fighting the evil back or trying to control it.

All of this is further exacerbated when you realize we are not the only ones active in the occult. The Mayor of Greater Marrow, the Dockworker, the Fishmonger, the Fanatic, the Hooded Figures. All of these parties seem to be engaging in their own shenanigans separate from the book. Just a shame we never get to see *what* they're up to. And that's to say nothing of the monsters unleashed on the world. The mountains of mutated fish. I don't know guys, I'm not convinced this is over because we threw a book in a pond and allowed ourselves to be eaten by Godzilla's classmate. (For some reason - I felt like our guy should have lived with the consequences of his actions, wasn't that the whole point?)

I read a bit of this but didn't want to spoil it any further for myself however I would like to just add some consideration with this game. Theme seems very Lovecraftian horrorish in atmosphere setting and dialog for the most part. No means do I intent to justify any possible dangling plot or provide excuse for lazy/sloppy handling of a story if it were even the case. (No accusations here against the writers) That said madness seems to be an ongoing theme with Lovecraft and fans of the works. So what I'm getting at is therein could be part if not all of the explanation.

Sure. Don't misunderstand, I like the game and the story. Definitely a good game. I was just wondering if anyone could close the gaps. For instance the twist ending is given away in the opening if you look closely so its not like the game was lazily written or pulled a fast one.

[Squl]

One of the downsides I noticed while playing the game is the "Lovecraftian world" felt sometimes like an excuse to have weird stuff happen without having tho explain.

For example: The quest involving the fishmonger eating the abberation fish. What happened while he was locked away? Why did he come back totally normal? The answer I feel is just "madness" and nothing that can be uncovered in lore.

The other big example was the pursuit involving delivering the mystery package to Little Marrow. The man is described as having black liquid drip from his ear (I think?) but I don't recall the black liquid being a reocurring theme or anything. I do agree with your interpretation that it points to everyone being involved in a cult, but beyond that I feel like there isn't a hidden definitive answer in the game.

I understand it can be fun to create fan theories and fill in the blanks with stories and by no means is this the only game to be guilty of this. If a game has vague plot elements but there isn't enough lore to answer, it does end up feeling like several dangling plot threads rather than a cohesive world that challenges the player to piece together the puzzle themselves.

EDIT: Adding that I liked the game overall, just acknowledging I felt the same gaps. I do also want to acknowledge that Many of the black rocks reveal extra lore about the world that fill in gaps and even explain how some of the local creatures came to be, but the gaps still exist regardless

[tempast2003]

Originally posted by Minim:

Originally posted by tempast2003:

I read a bit of this but didn't want to spoil it any further for myself however I would like to just add some consideration with this game. Theme seems very Lovecraftian horrorish in atmosphere setting and dialog for the most part. No means do I intent to justify any possible dangling plot or provide excuse for lazy/sloppy handling of a story if it were even the case. (No accusations here against the writers) That said madness seems to be an ongoing theme with Lovecraft and fans of the works. So what I'm getting at is therein could be part if not all of the explanation.

Sure. Don't misunderstand, I like the game and the story. Definitely a good game. I was just wondering if anyone could close the gaps. For instance the twist ending is given away in the opening if you look closely so its not like the game was lazily written or pulled a fast one.

I'm close to the end atm the lighthouse lady seems to either be confusing us or knows us, she seems cryptic to me and possibly foreshadowing future events of the story. I know their are at least 2 ending a good and bad one it seems. If you have not got both endings possibly this could sum up some of that I'd imagine.

[Minim]

Originally posted by tempast2003:

Originally posted by Minim:

Sure. Don't misunderstand, I like the game and the story. Definitely a good game. I was just wondering if anyone could close the gaps. For instance the twist ending is given away in the opening if you look closely so its not like the game was lazily written or pulled a fast one.

I'm close to the end atm the lighthouse lady seems to either be confusing us or knows us, she seems cryptic to me and possibly foreshadowing future events of the story. I know their are at least 2 ending a good and bad one it seems. If you have not got both endings possibly this could sum up some of that I'd imagine.

Got em both and checked out all the blackrocks. Let me know what you think when you get to the end. :)

[Cocofang]

Originally posted by Squl:

The other big example was the pursuit involving delivering the mystery package to Little Marrow. The man is described as having black liquid drip from his ear (I think?) but I don't recall the black liquid being a reocurring theme or anything.

That's most likely infestation. That ominous influence that sometimes slithers onto your ship to infect a fish. It is represented by a tarry, black goo.

[Socrates Jackson]

Thanks for writing this! I just finished the game both ways and was having some of the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with the story, though you put it all together much batter than me. Incomplete storytelling is a peeve of mine, but I loved the hell out of Dredge, so I'ma overlook it.

[RequiemsRose]

I did notice a few things myself despite not following the story extremely closely. For example one of the first things I noticed was that a few people who should recognize you actually do seem to do so, but immediately brush it off in their next breathe and continue as if everything is normal for the rest of the game, except that lighthouse keeper. First noticed it with the trader who first reacted like they did recognize you but immediately blames your "mistaken identity" on their poor eyesight and never brings it up again. The lighthouse keeper is the only one who continues to maintain an approach that implies they know who you actually are, and even she isn't always so passive aggressive with you depending on your dialogue choices. Like if you choose the responses that seem like you are also confused why you are doing the things you are, she tends to take a much softer approach to you that still reminds you that you have the power of choice so if you are having doubts, maybe you should listen to those doubts and not continue to push forward down a path you don't fully understand.

Yet she is also pretty dismissive about the entire thing despite maintaining an attitude that implies she is fully aware that you are capable of making the situation both a whole lot worse or better. Even having a moment where she tells you she can't even be sure if you are actually who you are, or just another trick of the fog. You would think if she was aware of what you could potentially do, she'd be a bit more invested in guiding you towards the path that DOESN'T result in everyone getting destroyed by Cthulhu's knockoff (most likely her being one of the first considering the lighthouse is one of few things that seems to help against the fog and how that turned out for the ancient lighthouse).

[mhook2231]

So, I know it's a cop out, but a big theme of Lovecraft is things outside human understanding that bring madness to those who learn about them. Ancient things that are beyond our current world. I don't know how to do the black spoiler lines, so I'll be intentionally vague in my theory. But I kind of assumed that the person in question was mad enough that, their view wasn't correct. Like an unreliable narrator. I also assumed the behavior was off enough that they were harder to recognize, im sure everyone has run into someone from high school, but both of you play like you don't recognize the other.

[Minim]

Originally posted by mhook2231:

So, I know it's a cop out, but a big theme of Lovecraft is things outside human understanding that bring madness to those who learn about them. Ancient things that are beyond our current world. I don't know how to do the black spoiler lines, so I'll be intentionally vague in my theory. But I kind of assumed that the person in question was mad enough that, their view wasn't correct. Like an unreliable narrator. I also assumed the behavior was off enough that they were harder to recognize, im sure everyone has run into someone from high school, but both of you play like you don't recognize the other.

I guess? But if I thought that someone was connected to my personal misery and the misery of my home town, I might be a bit more diligent.

[Minim]

Originally posted by RequiemsRose:

I did notice a few things myself despite not following the story extremely closely. For example one of the first things I noticed was that a few people who should recognize you actually do seem to do so, but immediately brush it off in their next breathe and continue as if everything is normal for the rest of the game, except that lighthouse keeper. First noticed it with the trader who first reacted like they did recognize you but immediately blames your "mistaken identity" on their poor eyesight and never brings it up again. The lighthouse keeper is the only one who continues to maintain an approach that implies they know who you actually are, and even she isn't always so passive aggressive with you depending on your dialogue choices. Like if you choose the responses that seem like you are also confused why you are doing the things you are, she tends to take a much softer approach to you that still reminds you that you have the power of choice so if you are having doubts, maybe you should listen to those doubts and not continue to push forward down a path you don't fully understand.

Yet she is also pretty dismissive about the entire thing despite maintaining an attitude that implies she is fully aware that you are capable of making the situation both a whole lot worse or better. Even having a moment where she tells you she can't even be sure if you are actually who you are, or just another trick of the fog. You would think if she was aware of what you could potentially do, she'd be a bit more invested in guiding you towards the path that DOESN'T result in everyone getting destroyed by Cthulhu's knockoff (most likely her being one of the first considering the lighthouse is one of few things that seems to help against the fog and how that turned out for the ancient lighthouse).

Interesting, I must have accidentally clicked past that dialog - was there anyone else that made that kind of passing comment, or just those two?

[RequiemsRose]

Originally posted by Minim:

Interesting, I must have accidentally clicked past that dialog - was there anyone else that made that kind of passing comment, or just those two?

That...I may have to get back to you on. My memory currently sucks so i don't trust it much. Will have to replay to get the introductions again to double check. I want to say the old mayor also has a moment of it that can get easily excused by his "throw it back" obsession but that will take a bit to get back to in order to double check. In the meantime though, the trader intro is super easy to get to early on so i was able to get a screenshot of that one for reference at least:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2958394780

[Minim]

Originally posted by RequiemsRose:

Originally posted by Minim:

Interesting, I must have accidentally clicked past that dialog - was there anyone else that made that kind of passing comment, or just those two?

That...I may have to get back to you on. My memory currently sucks so i don't trust it much. Will have to replay to get the introductions again to double check. I want to say the old mayor also has a moment of it that can get easily excused by his "throw it back" obsession but that will take a bit to get back to in order to double check. In the meantime though, the trader intro is super easy to get to early on so i was able to get a screenshot of that one for reference at least:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2958394780

Yeah, I went back to look for it. It is very brief. And the Old Mayor absolutely recognizes you, but that's right before the end.

[Scittle]

From what I can gather the horror beneath is trapped, sealed, stuck asleep or something of the sort. It is growing in power and as it does two things are happening.
The first is the change in the sea, the aberrations and the nightmarish events.
The second is it using it's influence to free itself. It's using the serpent in Gale Cliffs to weaken the earth above it and release more of it's influence. It infects people to do it's influence and create more creatures (e.g. Little Marrow dockworker.)

In most Lovecraftian mythos the Old Ones and their artifacts spread corruption and influence slowly, changing the environments and those that live in it.

You are caught up in this influence with your wife being the lure and your amnesia being the blinders to keep you going forward.

It also seems that you are the collector and had the book all along. At least that appears to be how it's portrayed when you break the mirror and begin to see the collector in the mirror and the lighthouse keeper hints at you having the book all along.

One theory I have is that you, or perhaps your wife is the predecessor fisherman. Several people all "recognize" you, and there's how the lighthouse keeper acts towards you. It would make sense that the wife originally tried some sort of ritual that failed ending in her death and your amnesia.

Perhaps the wife was the "villain" and the game is you following in her footsteps to either finish what she started, bringing her back to life and releasing the Old One;
Or choosing to let it rest and cast away the book, weakening the influence and stopping the awakening, at least for a time.

[Minim]

Originally posted by Salubrio:

From what I can gather the horror beneath is trapped, sealed, stuck asleep or something of the sort. It is growing in power and as it does two things are happening.
The first is the change in the sea, the aberrations and the nightmarish events.
The second is it using it's influence to free itself. It's using the serpent in Gale Cliffs to weaken the earth above it and release more of it's influence. It infects people to do it's influence and create more creatures (e.g. Little Marrow dockworker.)

In most Lovecraftian mythos the Old Ones and their artifacts spread corruption and influence slowly, changing the environments and those that live in it.

You are caught up in this influence with your wife being the lure and your amnesia being the blinders to keep you going forward.

It also seems that you are the collector and had the book all along. At least that appears to be how it's portrayed when you break the mirror and begin to see the collector in the mirror and the lighthouse keeper hints at you having the book all along.

One theory I have is that you, or perhaps your wife is the predecessor fisherman. Several people all "recognize" you, and there's how the lighthouse keeper acts towards you. It would make sense that the wife originally tried some sort of ritual that failed ending in her death and your amnesia.

Perhaps the wife was the "villain" and the game is you following in her footsteps to either finish what she started, bringing her back to life and releasing the Old One;
Or choosing to let it rest and cast away the book, weakening the influence and stopping the awakening, at least for a time.

Yeah, we are the collector, but outside of the Old Mayor, the Lighthouse Lady, and (maybe?) the Trader, who recognizes us? How does the serpent at gale help the Evil? And I don't think the wife was in on it, as she sends us a message from the afterlife telling us to throw her back.

Whatever this evil is, it had a gasp on the Collector's family long before taking the wife. The Angler knew the area harbored occult power enough to take precautions and rituals against it. I think the real question that might resolve some if this is the following: were the times given to the wife enchanted from the start, or only after the Evil took her?Did the Angler's mother give her the Watch as a simple gesture or was there something more to it?