Best ending? (Spoilers Ahead)

[Roxas]

So I got the ending where I chose to keep Sam’s imaginary friend and Anna survived and I assumed this was the best ending and when searching it online most classify as the “best” ending because he’s happy and with everyone and I chose my Sam to stay in town after Anna becomes the head of the paper.

But then I saw the ending where Sam keeps the mind palace which allows him to discover that the Pharmacist is the cause of the drug crisis in the town using Declan, Bug’s mom as pawns basically and Sam takes him down but then ends up all alone

I know DontNod games don’t always have a true all around happy ending (Aside from LiS True Colors imo) but this one seemed like a pretty stark difference between these two ending because of the implications

One one hand he’s “happy” but the drug crisis will continue since the Pharmacist will just keep going and who knows if Bug’s mom will be able to escape from it either and what it will do to the community, and on the other hand he stops the drug ring but then is alone forever basically?

It sucks that there wasn’t a third perfect ending where him and Anna take down the pharmacist’s operation and still all be together in the town happy

[Qiana]

Originally posted by Roxas:

It sucks that there wasn’t a third perfect ending where him and Anna take down the pharmacist’s operation and still all be together in the town happy

It sucks when the people draw conclusions, without doing a research first.

There are actually 5 endings and the 'perfect ending' is subjective and as such, irrelevant.

Originally posted by void body:

I personally prefer the ending where he remains happy and in town with everyone else. Sam is working again, now with Anna's help, and I think it's a matter of time before they uncover the whole truth ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG9XCfhR2BI

[Roxas]

I know I saw that video which made it clear the core of the “good” endings remains the same, you get something give up the other. It also sucks when people don’t use context clues when reading. When I said a “third perfect ending” I was quantifying **good** endings not all endings

And as far as those are concerned the two “good” endings are that
Either he lives happy with everyone but the Pharmacist continues Or he’s alone but solves the mystery

And no it isn’t subjective because a perfect “third” ending would objectively be if he’s happy and accepted by them and Anna **and** he stops the Pharmacist who is the head of the operation, not one or the other. Him ending up alone is not a perfect ending and neither is him ending up happy with everyone but the true mastermind can continue though the latter is as close to the “perfect” ending as it can get

A perfect ending in the context of all the endings is the the best parts of each of the good endings put into one which is the one that I wished could’ve been an option as well

[Qiana]

Originally posted by Roxas:

... the core of the “good” endings remains the same, you get something give up the other.

Just like in real life in most cases ...

The thing here is, this is just another "Life IS Strange", and having 'perfect ending' would actually colide with 'is strange'.

Originally posted by Roxas:

It also sucks when people don’t use context clues when reading. When I said a “third perfect ending” I was quantifying **good** endings not all endings

This is true, but only under the wrong assumption that others share your opinion about what is good ending, and those making quantifying good endings hard or impossible.

What if all endings suck and one doesn't consider non of them to be good?

Originally posted by Roxas:

A perfect ending in the context of all the endings is the the best parts of each of the good endings put into one which is the one that I wished could’ve been an option as well

YOU wished some other ending, and that's fine, but irrelevant for anybody else but you.

Originally posted by Roxas:

And as far as those are concerned the two “good” endings are that
Either he lives happy with everyone but the Pharmacist continues Or he’s alone but solves the mystery

And no it isn’t subjective because a perfect “third” ending would objectively be if he’s happy and accepted by them and Anna **and** he stops the Pharmacist who is the head of the operation, not one or the other. Him ending up alone is not a perfect ending and neither is him ending up happy with everyone but the true mastermind can continue though the latter is as close to the “perfect” ending as it can get

The perfect ending is always very subjective.

What about the following ending:

Sam stays in town, takes over the newspaper, joins the pharmacist and works together with him for a while, before he gets rid of him and rules the town basically on his own? Of course, he'd have to get rid of Anna at some point too, if she survived after all, and replace her with someone more suitable. After that, he starts expanding on surrounding towns ...

A perfect ending for some villain. ;)

This is not to say that I find, that would be a perfect ending, but that you don't know what 'perfect' means for somebody else, and those, there can't be a 'perfect ending'.

I personally take every game and their endings for what they are, and I never wish any other endings, as each of those games basically represent only one fragment in time, and only one of the countless possible ways on how the happenings stacked upon each other.

[Roxas]

That's fair and I honestly do get your reasoning and argument. I feel like we've had differentiated opinions on almost all of the DontNod games so far lol But ig that's also what adds into the fun of these games after finishing them. What each person takes from it and would've wanted from it XD

[penfoldini]

My problem is that the whole choice is based on a fallacy about human psychology that you cannot be an emotional aware social being whilst being logical and deductive. I'm a very social person and often end up counselling people when they are going through something, but I fingered the pharmacist from the moment I met him. Then when we bump in to the dealer in the pharmacy I immediately went to that looks like a pick up. Then when the cop was involved, I thought surely he's just got to be a middle man or the fixer. By the time the game ended I was still suspicious and did some goggling and low and behold my entire theory is correct - cue rant mode and here I am.

The other thing that bothered me, is the whole mind palace thing - this is a memory technique developed decades ago and used by notable people known for memorising enormous amounts of information (like the pi guy). You're mnemonic techniques, visual imagination for reasoning and problem solving would not magically vanish because you've decided to invest some more time in your social life... He's still got to make a living right? And don't get me started with it conflating a memory techniques with panic attacks and other more severe symptoms of mental health problems.

This game is a problematic example of why popular psychology still means people stigmatise issues and have very black and white thinking when it comes to judging other people; which is ironic when one of the choices involves engaging your empathy in order to be happy.

[Yes, I'm necrothreading, and no I don't care]

[yhibiki]

Originally posted by penfoldini:

My problem is that the whole choice is based on a fallacy about human psychology that you cannot be an emotional aware social being whilst being logical and deductive. I'm a very social person and often end up counselling people when they are going through something, but I fingered the pharmacist from the moment I met him. Then when we bump in to the dealer in the pharmacy I immediately went to that looks like a pick up. Then when the cop was involved, I thought surely he's just got to be a middle man or the fixer. By the time the game ended I was still suspicious and did some goggling and low and behold my entire theory is correct - cue rant mode and here I am.

The other thing that bothered me, is the whole mind palace thing - this is a memory technique developed decades ago and used by notable people known for memorising enormous amounts of information (like the pi guy). You're mnemonic techniques, visual imagination for reasoning and problem solving would not magically vanish because you've decided to invest some more time in your social life... He's still got to make a living right? And don't get me started with it conflating a memory techniques with panic attacks and other more severe symptoms of mental health problems.

This game is a problematic example of why popular psychology still means people stigmatise issues and have very black and white thinking when it comes to judging other people; which is ironic when one of the choices involves engaging your empathy in order to be happy.

[Yes, I'm necrothreading, and no I don't care]

I'll necrothread with you! I agree with you that it's a false dichotomy, and there is no reason why you can't be both smart/logical AND have social skills. I went with "Him" in the end because he amused me so much, but it sucks that we're just supposed to accept that there is an ongoing opioid problem in town but HEY at least we're not alone! I suppose if I ever wanted to replay the game (unlikely, since there's no cutscene skip) I'd go for that other ending.

[Qiana]

Originally posted by yhibiki:

I'll necrothread with you! I agree with you that it's a false dichotomy, and there is no reason why you can't be both smart/logical AND have social skills.

I would argue that a "false dichotomy" could also just be a consequence of a lack of interpretive skills.

One example... Should I get the Xiaomi Redmi 12 or the Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra? The Samsung is faster and has more memory. Yes, but I only use it to check my email, send one or two messages a month, and occasionally open the banking app. The Samsung has a better camera and more storage space. Yes, but I've only taken about 10 pictures since I've had my previous phone, and only to make sure it wasn't broken. The Samsung recharges battery in a quarter of the time. True, but the phone sits on my desk 24/7 and never leaves the house, and every time I pick it up I have to re-enter the code. A security feature to make sure the owner doesn't forget the code, which triggers every 3 days if the phone hasn't been used in the meantime... The Samsung is a better deal, it is supported for 7 years and the Xiaomi only for 4, so you can use it longer. Agreed, but 1500 divided by 7 (years) vs 150 divided by 4, Samsung's 7 years seems like a very bad deal when it comes to bucks per year.

This was Sam's logical reasoning when deciding which phone to buy, and could be shown as Sam arguing with his double in his "mind palace", if the game was a smartphone buying simulator.

Sam's social skills were absolutely fine. He showed no abnormalities. He acted "normal" with "normals"; Joan, Anna, Joe, the ex-boss, the bar owner, the waitress, etc., despite being in a hostile environment; in a town where most people hated him.

And then Sam's mental problems... There are some pills and that's why he has mental problems? Yes, a death in the family, the loss of a job, a divorce, or a failed relationship can cause temporary depression, "mental preassure," as would be expected under the circumstances, and some medication can sometimes help to get over easier, but on the other hand, we don't even know what pills Sam took and for what. Sam is addicted to pills because of his... mental problems, or because of sleep disorder, stomach ulcer, erectile dysfunction... nutritional supplements... Sam is taking some pills.

In the end, people only see what they want to see, and only as much as they can see. See Life Is Strange and all the people who fell in love with Chloe and Max. Even though the dream theory is the only logical and grounded explanation, they prefer to fantasize about parallel universes.

Thinkering is not the same as thinking, and thinking alone does not automatically mean that there was a meaningful outcome to the process. On a positive note, this is what makes Steam discussions lively.

[3lives]

I chose being sociable, which is pretty absurd to be able to mold your personality if you're not a total psycho, and was bummed that I couldn't follow up on the all too obvious clues and suspects.
One can try to be more open and still be unsatisfied with loose ends...

Another thing, what do you guys make of Walther?
There was a reason you could get on his computer and find out he came into money to support his dear mother. This would be an obvious clue he was in on the crimes.
I also thought his face model was used when showing Nick's murder, but that may very well be totally wrong.

[wobblegong2000]

If you play the 'expose the pharmacist' ending, it becomes pretty obvious that Anna read the flash drive and learned what was at stake. With her dad's overwhelming medical bills, she chose to cover up for the pharmacist, saying that the flash drive was somehow lost in the fight while telling you to 'shut off your brain for a moment' and call it case closed.

I think that as brutal as it was, the twist fit with the theme, that social harmony and absolute truth are almost always in opposition, and it made sense that going full truth and wrecking everyone's financial lifeline with the pharmacist made you completely alone and isolated.

[peter4i4ik]

For me it was when Anna is alive and i retain mind palace, because i liked it much more then this annoying guy. Since you can not be with Anna anyway (isn't it)? the rest does not matter... so i just exposed the pharmacist.

[Hawke]

After playing both endings, I find the distinction amusing. I suppose, the drug ring would cause the greater damage overall, while its destruction would cause more immediate damage to its participants. The MC being somewhat detached from that community allows to go for the throat without the fear of losing the social standing, since there is none to start with. Plus the ego and self-actualization.

I still quite liked Him and how different the social and the analytical dialogue options were at the end.

Edit. Copying the save file right before the choice to keep Him/the Mind Palace via the Options menu allows to replay the final confrontation and the epilogue more easily, though the ability to skip cutscenes would be most welcome.