Critique: More "Exploration" Than "Game"

[1337Dude]

I'm nearly finished with all the games in the collection, and I have to admit - these games suffer from the fact that they're GBA games likely aimed at little children.

SoTN, despite changing gameplay significantly, managed to retain most of the difficulty that Castlevania games are known for. The GBA games, on the other hand, have virtually none of the difficulty. Your grandma could beat all these games with her eyes closed.

So when you beat Castlevania 1, 3, 4, Bloodlines, or SOTN - there's some sense of accomplishment. There's a sense of "I'm better at this game when I started". That sense is completely missing from these games, and they suffer for it.

Virtually the only difficulty in these games is knowing where to go at any given moment. And it's not really difficulty in the traditional sense. It's more just having the patience to explore and retread the maps.

Don't get me wrong. For easy games, they're fun. But something this collection really emphasizes for me is that the "epic adventure" of Castlevania had a lot more to do with the increasing challenge as your progress through the castle. The heart of Castlevania really isn't about exploring maze-like maps. If Castlevania adapted this gameplay style from the beginning, it would've likely never graduated past being a lesser Metroid game.

[Melodia]

Publicado originalmente por 1337Dude:

SoTN, despite changing gameplay significantly, managed to retain most of the difficulty that Castlevania games are known for.

What in the world are you smoking?

[Furry Wrecking Crew]

He's completely right. I like these games, but they ARE super easy. Between health items, save points, and abilities, you are very OP most of the time. Bosses are easy once you figure out the pattern, unlike old Castlevania where I'd know the patterns and still get crushed.

That's what "Metroidvanias" are though. Castlevania decided to imitate Super Metroid's formula, and Super Metroid is really easy compared to Castlevania at the time, and even the first Metroid was much harder.

[HHH]

He isn't right because he's claiming Symphony of the Night had any challenge whatsoever. There's more challenge involved in wrangling with Circle of the Moon's terrible controls than anything in SotN. Never mind the fact that there are a million different ways to cheese the game in SotN.

Classic Castlevanias and Metroidvanias are different genres. One has more inherent difficulty because you can't grind the challenge away, and there's only a handful of ways to approach the levels. It's really not any deeper than that.

[Furry Wrecking Crew]

Publicado originalmente por HHH:

He isn't right because he's claiming Symphony of the Night had any challenge whatsoever. There's more challenge involved in wrangling with Circle of the Moon's terrible controls than anything in SotN. Never mind the fact that there are a million different ways to cheese the game in SotN.

Classic Castlevanias and Metroidvanias are different genres. One has more inherent difficulty because you can't grind the challenge away, and there's only a handful of ways to approach the levels. It's really not any deeper than that.

Well, SOTN is the only stretch, but he's absolutely right about the other games.

[Mblaze]

Publicado originalmente por HHH:

He isn't right because he's claiming Symphony of the Night had any challenge whatsoever. There's more challenge involved in wrangling with Circle of the Moon's terrible controls than anything in SotN. Never mind the fact that there are a million different ways to cheese the game in SotN.

Classic Castlevanias and Metroidvanias are different genres. One has more inherent difficulty because you can't grind the challenge away, and there's only a handful of ways to approach the levels. It's really not any deeper than that.

For the first the newcommers I believe there would be a challenge especially on the Luck mode. Or at least until they found out about the Alucard Shield+Rod combo and Crissaegrim

[PresidentCamacho]

Circle of the Moon has some challenge. The DS games had a bit more- particularly OOE or hard modes. But none of the SotN styled ones are tough like classicvania. I'm perplexed that you'd say SotN is tough like classicvania though, I'd say its quite a bit easier than any of the following games in that style (barring maybe HoD).

...If you want a new challenging classicvania, play Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon 2. Especially repeat runs with different characters and harder bossses. Then there's solo modes, boss rush mode, and legend hunter mode. Plenty of old-school challenge if you're willing to dig in deep.

[mdesaleah]

Symphony.............difficult?

Lmao. Aria at least has Death, and Circle has the dragon. OoE also exists.

Symphony is by far one of the easiest.

[Quillithe]

Yeah, these aren't terribly hard games but SotN established the trend of not being super hard.

If you didn't explore enough they'd be a little bit harder but they're all full of really strong stuff to find. And at least these mostly don't have, like, 15 different things that break the game like SotN does. (Shield rod anyone?)

[-$ilver-]

These games are generally easier, because there are save points and different tactics to use. When playing any of the first several games, they were linear and you were basically stuck with what you started with, with the exception of different sub weapons. And some did not even have a password system to start where you left off at. You will still die a few times in the Metrovaina ones, just less often.

[Furry Wrecking Crew]

Publicado originalmente por -$ilver-:

These games are generally easier, because there are save points and different tactics to use. When playing any of the first several games, they were linear and you were basically stuck with what you started with, with the exception of different sub weapons. And some did not even have a password system to start where you left off at. You will still die a few times in the Metrovaina ones, just less often.

I could never beat Castlevania as a kid (♥♥♥♥ the Clock Tower.) The only reason I beat Castlevania 2 was because it had passwords and RPG mechanics like leveling up. Early Castlevania was brutal.

[-$ilver-]

I actually enjoyed the second game, even though people rag on it. I have yet to beat the first game myself. And Haunted Castle is very difficult. But that was also the charm with these games. They were meant to be a challenge. Wish I had played more of the Sega Genesis Super Castlevania counterpart though. Was neat to have a spear or pole arm in the game and see the game on another console other than what we were used to, Nintendo.

[Furry Wrecking Crew]

Publicado originalmente por -$ilver-:

I actually enjoyed the second game, even though people rag on it. I have yet to beat the first game myself. And Haunted Castle is very difficult. But that was also the charm with these games. They were meant to be a challenge. Wish I had played more of the Sega Genesis Super Castlevania counterpart though. Was neat to have a spear or pole arm in the game and see the game on another console other than what we were used to, Nintendo.

Agreed, Castlevania 2 was cool as hell. Not many Gothic Action RPGs at the time haha. I tried to see as far as I could get in the Arcade Haunted Castle, but I had no chance by the third level. I beat the Haunted Castle Remake, but definitely used Continues.

[MarioFanaticXV]

Publicado originalmente por 1337Dude:

SoTN, despite changing gameplay significantly, managed to retain most of the difficulty that Castlevania games are known for.

...How long has it been since you played SotN? Don't get me wrong, I love the game, but it is one of the easiest games to break. It's up there with Fable in that regard. I've not played the DS games, but it's definitely easier than the GBA titles, and way easier than the Classicvanias.

[-$ilver-]

Publicado originalmente por MarioFanaticXV:

Publicado originalmente por 1337Dude:

SoTN, despite changing gameplay significantly, managed to retain most of the difficulty that Castlevania games are known for.

...How long has it been since you played SotN? Don't get me wrong, I love the game, but it is one of the easiest games to break. It's up there with Fable in that regard. I've not played the DS games, but it's definitely easier than the GBA titles, and way easier than the Classicvanias.

Most people think it is easy, because they grind and because it has a save feature. Is the game just as easy using Ritcher? (Yes, yes it is, even easier, if you spam his super powers all the time. ) But SotN was meant to be both enjoyed and beat. You can make it as hard as you like, by not grinding. Or much easier by grinding. If the monsters scaled along with the player, there would be no point to level practically.

[Quillithe]

You don't really need to grind, it's more about how difficulty in SotN collapses once you find any number of things (like the shield rod)