STOP Optimizing for my PC

[Dark Redslayer]

Damn you! I get the game optimized to my PC and then I dont play for awhile and the game f**** all my settings and makes me get 30 fps.

[Gray Fox]

If they wanted to optimise the game for MY pc they'd add the Mitsubishi FTO while they're at it

[messanoir]

Originally posted by Dryspace:

Originally posted by awdion354:

Do you know what optimizing/optimal even means??

Yes.

Originally posted by awdion354:

Would you rather go backwards instead of forwards??

When I pay for a game, I don't want it to change into something different. If I like a game, I want to be able to play it again and again.

I want control over the game I paid for. I want to decide if and when I patch a game, as was the case for the first ~45 years of video games, until a few years ago.

Do you realize that the only reason you can play Space Invaders, or Pac-Man, or Super Mario Brothers, or Maniac Mansion, or Doom, or Deus Ex, or BioShock is because they weren't forcibly changed into difference experiences after they were released. You can play the exact same game that was released, or if there are patches, you can decided which patches you want to install.

I'll admit I wasn't planning on responding to this, but after reading the post a few times, well, here we are.

First, you say you understand what the optimization is, yet still object to it giving reasons based on information that doesn't apply to the process. So for the sake of others who may not know:

The optimization the game does is based on a few things, like Chesty La'Rue stated earlier:

Originally posted by Chesty La'Rou:

Basically, if you change video card drivers, it's going to go through the optimizing/recompiling phase. If there is a game update this will also happen. This will also happen with any major hardware changes.

That is how it is with PC's being there are 1000's of different component combinations as opposed to consoles where every console literally has the same processor/graphics accelerator combination.

The game runs the optimization whenever a major change like windows update, driver update, hardware update, etc, because with these updates there is the possibility that a performance gain is available and the game checks to see if that's possible.

as for the optimization itself, it's not "changing the game" in the way I think you might think it does. All it's doing is running a performance test/benchmark to see if you need to change your graphics settings for a better experience, and to recompile the shader cache (again to improve performance) as new driver/hardware updates may have improved the performance here.

Basically, no changes have been made to the actual content of the game, so I don't see why this would be an issue.

To address the second part of you statement. You are of course free to play the game in whatever state or version you wish, and thanks to the Steam archive thingy (I don't know how it works, I've never used it, so some other user can better explain it) you can in fact download earlier builds of most games, and if you choose, even block them from updating if you wish to play them in that state.

The majority of patches and updates are to fix bugs and errors and issues with the games, and yes there are patches released that will change content, usually in the form of adding it, but yes, sometimes content gets removed or changed as well. The thing is, you do have control over those patches and updates being applied. A simple google search (If you were unaware of the feature) or asking on these forums at any time would have informed you, that you can turn off automatic updating for almost every game on here (at least for me, every game I own has this ability). You could in fact never update a game and still play it...most of the time. Games that are played online are a bit different.

If the games servers are updated (almost for any reason), then most of the time an update will be sent out for the game to ensure that the online experience stays as sooth as possible. This, along with game patches, and content updates, will be pushed out to everyone since as an online game in order to play together everyone needs the same content or or software versions.

Now you could play the game solo/offline, and that's fine, you can do that without updating, just be aware you won't be able to use the online features of the game in most cases without updating and patching. Simply because all the other players have most likely updated and patched, and an unpatched game would be incompatible.

Lastly, the last part of your statement is using incorrect information, or at least incomplete.

If you download any of those games now (In fact I have a few of them) from here, or GOG, or any other store, the version you get is the final version of the game, not the initial release. The final version has already had a lot of patches and changes that were made over the years since the games initial release, and these are just part of the code now.

Now, you could download any of these games in there initial release form, but you won't find that here, or any other store, only the final version, with all patches and updates from the original creators installed.

All of the games you listed were patched and updated with fixes and content additions, removals, and changes, just like almost every other game. If you want the real experience like you seem to be asking for, then you need to download the initial release versions of all of those games and try playing them..most of them will not run on your system, not without emulation at least, and the windows games (Deus Ex, Bioshock) won't run at all on modern windows in there original release form (at least that's what my testing showed)

Now you could just run them all on an emulator or on a windows 95/98 machine, but but not all of us can or want to do that. to end this part, I did want to add that the first three games you mention, never had initial releases on pc, only console, it wasn't until much later that official releases were ported to pc, and again, that was after many changes and updates had been made to the code to improve the performance of the game or correct mistakes. (there had been clones and of the games made for pc before this, but those don't count as the the code for those was not written by the original developer)

To end my lengthy post, your opinion is valid and you are free to play the games as you would like since steam allows you to download earlier builds of the games, as well as block updates and patches (again, you'll need to ask here or google as I don't know the specifics). I think this would resolve what seems to be your initial issue with the game.

[Dryspace]

Originally posted by messanoir:

...and the game checks to see if that's possible.

This actually has nothing to do with my primary point, but nevertheless I will ask: Just how does the game check to see if that's possible?

[messanoir]

Originally posted by Dryspace:

Originally posted by messanoir:

...and the game checks to see if that's possible.

This actually has nothing to do with my primary point, but nevertheless I will ask: Just how does the game check to see if that's possible?

It does have to do with your point..the optimization that you complained about, part of that is a benchmark to check performance and possible performance gains/losses from setting changes. After the benchmark is run, the game may leave your settings alone, or may alter them to provide the best current performance.

[Dryspace]

You silly billy, lol. I'm not talking about a game having an automatic optimization function that I can use if I don't want to manually change settings myself.

I think you know full well that's not what we're talking about.

[messanoir]

Originally posted by Dryspace:

You silly billy, lol. I'm not talking about a game having an automatic optimization function that I can use if I don't want to manually change settings myself.

I think you know full well that's not what we're talking about.

I mean, the title of you post is about the optimization, as is the entirety of your original posts message being a complaint about the game optimizing when you started it and it changing your settings. I did explain why this happens. I know you're upset because this is not something you elect to do manually, but an automatic process that just happens...but this has been a part of the game since it launched, in fact it has been a part of the games as far back as I know, which is FH3 (I haven't played the earlier ones so I don't know about those.)

This isn't something added in and changed later after a purchase, so by your own argument of games being better in their release state, well...then you should be ok with this, as it was there on release. Or is it something else that bothers you?
The only other thing I can think of that could be an issue for some, would be the game running checks on your hardware specs and driver software in order to perform the benchmarks. Is that it?

I am actually curious, and want to hear all of your side of this, so maybe, who knows, we can figure things out in a way that benefits everyone.

Now, if what your referring to is the game companies pushing out changes to the game that you may not want, after you buy it, and those updates making changes you don't like or approve of...I answered that in my post as well.

[Dryspace]

Originally posted by messanoir:

I mean, the title of you post is about the optimization, as is the entirety of your original posts message being a complaint about the game optimizing when you started it and it changing your settings.

I didn't say anything about optimization. But if this game isn't a "GaaS" game, and doesn't force patches, and doesn't force "content" changes, then I apologize... I went off half ♥♥♥♥♥♥ then.

[messanoir]

Originally posted by Dryspace:

Originally posted by messanoir:

I mean, the title of you post is about the optimization, as is the entirety of your original posts message being a complaint about the game optimizing when you started it and it changing your settings.

I didn't say anything about optimization. But if this game isn't a "GaaS" game, and doesn't force patches, and doesn't force "content" changes, then I apologize... I went off half ♥♥♥♥♥♥ then.

My apologies as well, I was looking at the OP's original post..that's my bad, and you have my sincere apologies.

I'll refrain from that part of the topic from now on.

As for the updates and stuff, that is just something that is common today with most games, especially games with always online content, that updates will be pushed out whenever they are made.

As I mentioned in my post, sometimes these may be patches/updates that affect content.

As mentioned you can disable auto updating in steam for games, and this way you could read the change-logs for those patches and updates to see if you like the changes made.

I need to reiterate that at least for online games, not updating may result in you not being able to connect to the online portion of those games anymore.

[Dryspace]

Unfortunately, it's not been possible to disable auto-updating on Steam for several years now. The only thing you can do is "pause" updates, which simply means that instead of the forced patch installing immediately, it waits until next time you launch the game.

[Hideos Visage]

Originally posted by Chesty La'Rou:

That's probably called "it's rebuilding the shader cache" sorta kindda situation.

That appears to be the case. I play thing game with Proton I get this optimization when I clear out the prefix (emulated Windows C: drive), specifically the cached folder. In fact deleting the cache folder will trigger it ever time.

[Dark Redslayer]

Originally posted by awdion354:

Originally posted by Dryspace:

Why do you want the product you paid for to change after you paid for it? Because it might get better?

Yes, and if it might get better, it also might get worse.

Why do you want a product that you paid for to change after you paid for it?

let me answer that question with 2 other questions. Do you know what optimizing/optimal even means?? You probably do but I'm gonna ask anyway. Would you rather go backwards instead of forwards??

Apparently the devs/game don't know what it means. Because every single time it does it, I go from 60-80 FPS at all times, to 25-35 FPS at all times. It literally breaks my game every single time, and I have to go "UN"optimize it so it runs better again.


As for all the excuses as to why it does it, NONE of my other 100+ games on steam do it, and I don't want this one to do it either.

Give me an option to turn it on/off so I can turn it off and I'll adjust my own settings as needed, as I do with all my other games.

Also to make matters more annoying, it ALWAYS changes settings I have to restart the game to change lol.

[messanoir]

Originally posted by Dryspace:

Unfortunately, it's not been possible to disable auto-updating on Steam for several years now. The only thing you can do is "pause" updates, which simply means that instead of the forced patch installing immediately, it waits until next time you launch the game.

You are correct (I just checked and you're right. OK, that does suck.

I know you can work around the issue by selecting :Only update on game launch" and then then just launch the game from the install folder without steam open, but, this really only works with normally offline style games, as again, the issue of version incompatibility may arise with online games if they are not updated. It's like a 'Kinda/Maybe' workaround. lol

I'm gonna keep looking for what else there might be that is feasible for everyone one to do about it.

Originally posted by Dark Redslayer:

Originally posted by awdion354:

let me answer that question with 2 other questions. Do you know what optimizing/optimal even means?? You probably do but I'm gonna ask anyway. Would you rather go backwards instead of forwards??

Apparently the devs/game don't know what it means. Because every single time it does it, I go from 60-80 FPS at all times, to 25-35 FPS at all times. It literally breaks my game every single time, and I have to go "UN"optimize it so it runs better again.

I will mostly agree with this, the "mostly" being because I did email the devs regarding what exactly happens during the Optimization period, and only received a vague answer seeming to confirm that yes it is bench-marking the system (I assume this as they did not deny this), but they stated they could not provide any information about the part of the game.
I do agree it sucks that it may alter settings to something not wanted or even unusable, and seen that happen to to a lot of people, even though it seems to work just fine for a lot of people as well.

Originally posted by Dark Redslayer:

As for all the excuses as to why it does it, NONE of my other 100+ games on steam do it, and I don't want this one to do it either.

For this, we I get being angry or upset at this part of the game is fine and valid if it doesn't work for you or you just don't don't like it, not arguing that point.
I will say that there really aren't any "excuses" (at least that I presented" for it being there...it's just fact it's there, and because the devs put it there for the reason of checking and optimizing your settings whenever an update, hardware change, or windows update takes place that may alter the performance of the game. That's not an excuse, just a decision the devs made when making the game.

Originally posted by Dark Redslayer:

Give me an option to turn it on/off so I can turn it off and I'll adjust my own settings as needed, as I do with all my other games.

Also to make matters more annoying, it ALWAYS changes settings I have to restart the game to change lol.

Completely agree..there should be an option to turn off the auto optimization for those that want to, and in my opinion, this was a oversight of the devs, for the reasons you gave..not everyone wants to change their settings.

[Targonis]

Originally posted by Dark Redslayer:

Originally posted by awdion354:

let me answer that question with 2 other questions. Do you know what optimizing/optimal even means?? You probably do but I'm gonna ask anyway. Would you rather go backwards instead of forwards??

Apparently the devs/game don't know what it means. Because every single time it does it, I go from 60-80 FPS at all times, to 25-35 FPS at all times. It literally breaks my game every single time, and I have to go "UN"optimize it so it runs better again.


As for all the excuses as to why it does it, NONE of my other 100+ games on steam do it, and I don't want this one to do it either.

Give me an option to turn it on/off so I can turn it off and I'll adjust my own settings as needed, as I do with all my other games.

Also to make matters more annoying, it ALWAYS changes settings I have to restart the game to change lol.

You may not be fully aware of what is going on. Compiling shaders for example, is generally something that has to be done once, until your video drivers get updated. Now, Windows itself likes to push out driver updates, but SOME of those updates actually push out older driver versions.

There has been an issue with Microsoft pushing out drivers from up to two years older than the drivers from AMD, seriously, it's that annoying, you don't notice that it's an older version, you go to play, see Forza doing its thing, then you realize the drivers got changed, so now you install the latest drivers(AMD is up to 23.9.1 btw), and then the game optimizes again. The latest drivers work well with the game, no error about the game not being able to detect the driver version, and I'm not suffering for performance.

If you find your performance drops, maybe you should check your settings in the game to make sure they haven't gotten changed to higher detail settings or something.

[Dryspace]

Originally posted by Targonis:

Now, Windows itself likes to push out driver updates, but SOME of those updates actually push out older driver versions... There has been an issue with Microsoft pushing out drivers from up to two years older...

But may I ask why you allow the OS to do that? (I do not use Windows 10+)

[Targonis]

Originally posted by Dryspace:

Originally posted by Targonis:

Now, Windows itself likes to push out driver updates, but SOME of those updates actually push out older driver versions... There has been an issue with Microsoft pushing out drivers from up to two years older...

But may I ask why you allow the OS to do that? (I do not use Windows 10+)

For the most part, having drivers auto-update to the latest is a positive thing, and it is only stupidity in the version numbers that allows Windows to push out older drivers than are currently installed.

Basically, AMD 23.9.1 being the latest drivers should NOT have a Windows update push out an older version claiming to be newer, but it has been going on for years. I can roll back the drivers, it's just stupid when it happens. Now, on the flip side, I am on the Windows Insider track, so new builds that have a certain driver included does explain the headache. Note that it is good to be ahead of the curve when it comes to knowing what to expect when a new version is released.