Rubberbanding AI is completely insane in FH5 compared to FH4

[Krosis]

I've been playing the game for a little over 10 hrs now, while having sunk probably over 500 hrs into FH4 (through the windows store). And bloody hell what did they do to the AI. I know the AI already had comical levels of grip and acceleration in FH4, but in FH5 it's just completely nuts. And this becomes more and more obvious the higher class car you use.

In FH4 I found S1 class to be the most fun and balanced class to use and could win races easily on pro difficulty, and depending on the circuit even on unbeatable. But in FH5 however, I can't even keep up on expert difficulty, as the AI cars just rocket away on the start line and proceed to corner with impossible amounts of grip. On top of that, they always seem to have like a 60 mph higher top speed which they reach in an instant.

The only class which I find to be enjoyable and somewhat balanced right now is A(800). As I can gain enough on the AI in the corners to usually win by the end of the race. But even on A class, the AI cars accelerate like rocketships and always seem to be impossibly fast for their car rating.

Now having played sim racing games through all of my life, I dare to say that I know what I'm doing when it comes to adjusting the geometry, suspension and gearing. So I know my tuning is not at fault here.

This has to be fixed somehow because S1 class and above are completely unenjoyable in this state.

Edit:
For anyone saying oh you're just bad at the game. Being top 1% (5337th out of 1.000.000+ players) in the monthly rivals after a few laps should be good enough right?

(03-12-2021) Update:
So I tried the game out for a couple of hours now after the latest update, and I do seem to notice some changes (or maybe it's placebo effect). Seems like on some races the AI seems to be a bit toned down, and quite beatable even on the unbeatable difficulty now. I noticed that the massive acceleration boost at the start of the race seems to be less severe, as I am now launching at a similar speed. However, the top 3 cars will still gain a massive lead on the rest of the pack, and I often find myself only being able to overtake the leader near the final corners of the race on short races.

I think it differs a lot from race to race, so I can't say for sure if it has been changed at all, or if I am just imagining things. But I've now been playing on unbeatable difficulty all evening, and won 80% of my races. So I'd say check it out yourselves, and post your findings here. Did you find the AI to be more fair after the latest update, or does it still seem the same to you?

[KingKickAss]

I think the worst part is that you just know its not going to be changed. They released the game with the AI like this alongside a lot of other issues, theres no way they're going to fix the AI at this point. Its incredibly unfortunate and disappointing that they are going to turn a blind eye to all the complaints about it.

[MaChao]

KingKickAss の投稿を引用：

I think the worst part is that you just know its not going to be changed. They released the game with the AI like this alongside a lot of other issues, theres no way they're going to fix the AI at this point. Its incredibly unfortunate and disappointing that they are going to turn a blind eye to all the complaints about it.

The crux probably is, that the AI on lower to mid levels is perfectly fine.
Its gradual increase is just completely out of whack. And most players will probably not care.

Judging by the forums, most complaints come from "power users", a.e. the people trying to beat the seasonal challenges.

[Krosis]

Didn't think I would be wasting another single breath on you, but here we go again...

Dear Krosis, You can't just go around banning people just because they don't agree with your current, inexperienced views.

The reason I would ban you is not because we disagree with eachother's opinions. But rather because you are behaving like a child, insulting people and being disrespectful. Nobody wants to interact with a person like that.

I think we should let those a bit more refined in the art of arcade racing, express their views about the current AI while beginners explore more of what the game has to offer.. no, not walls. What I could gather from your post as a whole is that you are the kind of player everyone is afraid of when it comes to racing in the weekly trial.

Ah yes, ofcourse. Forgive me, for we should ofcourse all listen to the guy who claims to be oh so skilled, while he is using a keyboard to play the game. I don't have to justify myself, but for the record. Whenever I played the weekly trials in FH4, I used to be the one driving in first place, while the rest of my team was either dead last or ramming eachother off the track.

Your claim about the ai in FH4 and your inability of even keeping up with the expert AI in FH5, which the majority of the player base forgot it even exists, suggests that not even beginners should listen to what you have to say.

I don't know why you are still referencing my claim about the AI in FH4, as I didn't even complain about it.... Also the majority of the playerbase uses assists like automatic shifting, traction control and ABS. But ofcourse my opinion doesn't matter. And ofcourse, we should all only listen to you, the god of arcade racing who is so proud of his victories against unbeatable AI, he has to mention it in almost every comment he writes! So proud of you man.

The ai on expert difficulty is not even worthy of warming up against, developers almost forgot to implement this difficulty since they thought the 0.1% players still racing at this difficulty have grown up and have bigger hands now, and are able to hold the controller properly. Apparently, implementing this difficulty which was conceived for normal people to adjust their controls, sensitivity and for the blind people to enjoy the game, was the right call, but what happened next, not even god himself could've predicted: A gentleman, who presumably having tuned cars all his life, was getting bullied by this nasty, nasty expert ai. ''Impossible amounts of grip'' he said, ''60 mph higher top speed'' maybe the gentlemen was racing backwards, in reverse. We may nerver know, the proof was not there.

You gentlemen, are just full of frustration because of your inadequate racing skill. I hope you feel great accomplishment in beating this nerfed AI and I hope we cross paths in the online racing environment in order for me to stamp 'DNF' next to your name as my racing skills are way beyond your current understanding. We'll never speak again, in my absolute absence, combine your racing skills, maybe just maybe it'll be enough to defeat a novice Peel P50.
Smack my sinful ass with that ban, mod!

Oh boo hoo, it seems I'm getting bullied by the AI now. Please pity me. I guess my only choice is to call help from this guy who's racing skills are "way beyond our current understanding". Maybe he can help me become a pro!

Please dude, you play Forza Horizon on a keyboard. Before you call yourself skilled, I suggest you try playing with a wheel, pedals and shifter. And then we'll see who's ass is getting kicked. And don't even try playing a sim racing game, as you wouldn't even make it past the first corner without crashing into a wall. I have nothing to prove to you...

We'll never speak again

Great, I wish you the best in life!

[Zero McDol]

🦊 Hermit の投稿を引用：

Tiberius の投稿を引用：

Just play with assisted driving if tourist is also too difficult for you.

With respect, it's been stated a number of times that difficulty is not the issue most are complaining about here. Many don't mind a challenge, and have stated that they would be perfectly fine to lose races if the races they lost were fair.

It is how the difficulty is achieved that is at issue here. Instead of the AI actually using the machinery they have and being 'good at driving', they just get arbitrary, impossible stat boosts whenever the game feels they should be doing better. Stat boosts which us players do not have access to, regardless of the difficulty level we play on.

What we want is not to win every race, but rather a close battle, where the playing field is level and we really test/improve our skills. But the choice we have is either 'turn down the difficulty until we win every event' or 'turn up the difficulty and be cheated out of genuine results by an AI which effectively hacks'.

Definitely this ^.

I don't mind losing, but losing like this is just stupid to me. No different than anytime that I got beaten by cheaters using mod menu's in NFS World or any other Online racing game. The only real difference here is that the developers themselves gave the AI the parameters to cheat.

I just want a fair race with the AI at an even playing field as said, nothing more.

[Sysgen]

MaChao の投稿を引用：

The current trial made this issue pretty apparent as well.
Classic Sportscars with a range of 100-800.
So naturally, you'll see a field of 800's, which is perfectly reasonable. Great performance index, not too fast, not too slow.

So you have a bunch of classics all tuned to the absolute edge of the allowed 800PI...and the top AI is roughly a minute faster.
It darts of the start line and there's nothing you can do to ever catch it.

Increasing the AI's parameters is an easy way to increase difficulty and to compensate a lack of adaptive AI behavior. They don't get smarter, they just get faster, so you have to cut corners, clip checkpoints and slingshot around them. All fine and dandy.

But as OP already mentioned, what was hard in FH4 is oftentimes completely unbeatable now. If the AI becomes a minute faster than you, you could bee line the race and still won't catch up.
The interesting thing is: This doesn't happen all the time and not to all AI drivers.
One race, the AI just darts ahead with a minute difference, the very next race, they can't find 3rd gear, which leads me to believe that the difficulty curve and stat averaging algorhythm seems to be majorly borked.

I've run the "unbeatable" trial 3x now. 2 out of the 3 we won in 2 races and the 3rd time we won in 3 races. All different groups of people with the exception of me of course. Out of the seven races the A.I. won once.

Tunes available to A.I. are available to players. Many tunes created are on par with the best A.I. tunes.

This is a ridiculous conversation since we all agree that the A.I. is a black box and that the A.I. has parameterized min max values depending on difficulty yet there are still people here calling A.I. cheats. lol they don't cheat. What these people want are lower max values so they can win on harder difficulties. Weak

[kireta]

No, they want consistent AI that doesn't get free power when it starts losing, which defeats purpose of having adjustable difficulty settings.
Also, I absolutely hate when AI freaks out when their "nitro boost" ends, and once again abide 'their' physics, which often results in them slamming brakes, serpenting from left to right, or smashing into other cars.

[Sysgen]

kireta の投稿を引用：

No, they want consistent AI that doesn't get free power when it starts losing, which defeats purpose of having adjustable difficulty settings.
Also, I absolutely hate when AI freaks out when their "nitro boost" ends, and once again abide 'their' physics, which often results in them slamming brakes, serpenting from left to right, or smashing into other cars.

Yes they will Tbone you and will lol try to pit you because their behavior is based off of real players. Other than that your other assertions are nonsense.

[kireta]

AI gets faster if player is faster, in same cars, on same difficulty. Better your position is, relative to AIs, more boosts they recieve. That's a provable fact.

I'm not exactly sure what your bottom line is. You get proven wrong, you double down, and get proven wrong again, and again, and again. A pitiful sight.

[MaChao]

Sysgen の投稿を引用：

snip

I'm happy that you didn't run into any issues here. I too had races where it did not happen, but you conveniently ignored that for your little rant ^^
But i know 4 people irl, a good handful more only who faced the problems of AI's with literally impossible speeds.
I also love how you assume that "they want easy wins against higher difficulties" even though pretty much everyone who pointed out this very issue said the exact opposite.
But i guess it just didn't fit your little high horse.

Go on friendo, prove everyone wrong by saying so ^^
I hope you have fun with it!

[Sysgen]

MaChao の投稿を引用：

Sysgen の投稿を引用：

snip

I'm happy that you didn't run into any issues here. I too had races where it did not happen, but you conveniently ignored that for your little rant ^^
But i know 4 people irl, a good handful more only who faced the problems of AI's with literally impossible speeds.
I also love how you assume that "they want easy wins against higher difficulties" even though pretty much everyone who pointed out this very issue said the exact opposite.
But i guess it just didn't fit your little high horse.

Go on friendo, prove everyone wrong by saying so ^^
I hope you have fun with it!

Well let's talk about it. Post the race, the tune the people were using and the car. Let's try it.

[MaChao]

Sysgen の投稿を引用：

snip

Yes, give me a second. I'll need to contact Microsoft HQ to get the server records from several weeks ago to get the examples you want.
Play your childish gotcha games with someone else please. Pick any car you like, any race, put the AI on a higher difficulty, chances are you get a Drivatar you can't catch up to.
The press is talking about FH5's unstable AI, other platforms like Reddit are, several people here brought it up. I'm glad we have you to prove them all wrong though!

[Zero McDol]

Sysgen の投稿を引用：

MaChao の投稿を引用：

I'm happy that you didn't run into any issues here. I too had races where it did not happen, but you conveniently ignored that for your little rant ^^
But i know 4 people irl, a good handful more only who faced the problems of AI's with literally impossible speeds.
I also love how you assume that "they want easy wins against higher difficulties" even though pretty much everyone who pointed out this very issue said the exact opposite.
But i guess it just didn't fit your little high horse.

Go on friendo, prove everyone wrong by saying so ^^
I hope you have fun with it!

Well let's talk about it. Post the race, the tune the people were using and the car. Let's try it.

Actually, how about you post a video of you against unbeatable AI on any one of the races in this game. Not a trial - not a tourist race or whatever it's called - Not a created track, but a normal track and not the Mexico Festival Circuit, because the AI is actually pretty light on that track.

Any track except the Festival Circuit - unbeatable difficulty. If you're as fast as you say that you are and have no issues with the AI at unbeatable, show us a video.

edit and I have a few rules:
- You are not allowed to use Rewind
- You are not allowed to have ABS or braking assist on
- You are not allowed to have steering assist on

[Tiberius]

https://youtu.be/FId_vEW8vOk

[Sysgen]

Zero McDol の投稿を引用：

Sysgen の投稿を引用：

Well let's talk about it. Post the race, the tune the people were using and the car. Let's try it.

Actually, how about you post a video of you against unbeatable AI on any one of the races in this game. Not a trial - not a tourist race or whatever it's called - Not a created track, but a normal track and not the Mexico Festival Circuit, because the AI is actually pretty light on that track.

Any track except the Festival Circuit - unbeatable difficulty. If you're as fast as you say that you are and have no issues with the AI at unbeatable, show us a video.

edit and I have a few rules:
- You are not allowed to use Rewind
- You are not allowed to have ABS or braking assist on
- You are not allowed to have steering assist on

Made way too may mistakes.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2673642599

[CasualitieZ]

N0xEterniS の投稿を引用：

Hey, I wanted to call you all some very bad words, but instead I invite you all to make a video about the AI, show us your settings and how you drive, the difficulty, tune, so we can all see if it's really the ai OR YOU.. eh ? I'm having no problems with the ai, other than they slow down for no reason sometimes, I've already made multiple videos where I race against unbeatable ai using AWD and RWD, Street and Cross country, and right now I'm making one on Dirt.
Krosis, make a video man, show us where the ai ''cheats'', same goes for [STG] Dante.
There is no rubberband in this game, i've said it before on reddit as well and I got downvoted by screenshot lovers who get rekt by novice Ai.

There has been videos posted if you took even 1 second to look.