Weapon questions... and classes too?

[Phazon Xenomorph]

So I was wondering, what are considered the "good" weapons, which are the bad ones, and which are just broken in some form and how?

Me and my friend right now are enjoying using on the Standard Difficulty (first run) whatever we feel like, but I'm already noticing a disparity in how fast some weapons dispatch Xenos versus others. During one of our runs a few nights ago we had a random join in who had this pistol thing that was just utterly dominating the bugs. Made our Pulse Rifle, Smartgun, Minigun, and shotguns look like toys.

Given the focus of the game seems to be completing the story and moving to harder difficulties, we'd like to make sure our time isn't wasted getting used to weapons that will be inferior on the harder difficulties and challenge cards.

On that note, I see there are five classes. Is there any real benefit to them besides their Q and E buttons? Is one stronger than another?

[Grr. [SG CMD] Majah Lazah]

This covers TTK and utility, any subsequent feels and ability to aim are utterly irrelevant. Anecdotal stories of how you pwned all the synths with the l33 on insane but then one got you just at the end at the last synth core are also irrelevant.

Rifles
M41
Kramer
M42* (only with an aimbot or as host or both)
M43


CQC
M37
X43
T76
T23

Pistol
T95
M10
Kramer

Heavy
M56
O91


This list has ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to do with theoretical DPS or your feels or that one time in your mind ot that one build where you took every weapon perk in the game for one gun and you still wiped on the third tile but boy your engame stats sure were sexy.

These are the weapons with the fastest and most consistent Kill/Knock ratios across all classes regardless of situation or enemy type or difficulty.

A weapon that does double the DPS of these weapons and take four times as long to reload or might as well be a melee weapon really have no place past Intense, and neither do gimmick weapons.

Classes absolutely matter and no they are not equal.

Past intense CC matter more than high damage, and the ability to focus down without switching weapons is mandatory.

Tech
Demolisher
Gunner
Recon
Doc
Phalanx

in that order after Intense. Intense and down weapons and classes are largely irrelevant unless you're speed running for dailies or drops, and if you're speed running for dailies you might as well be playing easy.

[Riftwind]

In general, weakpoint damage is for accuracy and fire rate is for trash. If you setup the default pulse rifle with weakpoint+stability / rof + ammo mag / weakpoint+acc sights you end up with a gun that is perfect for synths, or accurate special enemy types.
If you setup the same gun with rof muzzle, speed reload+ammo mag, and 10% dmg while standing still +25 acc sight, you end up with a gun you can hipfire with, that gets a bit of a boost while standing still against trash.

It seems to be about managing the gun and its weakpoints and strengths. Some guns are better with more rate of fire, as they do little weakpoint damage to try and max out - some are better with rate of fire purely because they already do alot of weakpoint damage.

The classes are slightly more complicated - if your class gets a damage boost from a skill, then using that skill to get a damage boost on the gun means you dont need to spec into weakpoint damage quite so much as your already boosted. The doc has no damage boosts as an example, his skills bring accuracy and stability to the weapon, so you can spec into pure weakpoint on the guns as the accuracy is already there.

For the gunner, his skillset seems to point at rate of fire - while your dealing damage, you get stacks of "focus fire" - a skill with perks that seems to want you firing constantly - look at his rifle masteries - "reload speed, rate of fire, mag size". They want you shooting all the time and fast.

Lists of guns are ok at this point, but with no reason why this gun is the best or how it was set up to be the best, its a wasted list.
Im not saying i disagree with the list, but those guns require the least amount of effort to achieve good results. The kramer assault rifle hits hard, and appears to be awesome - but it has alot less total ammo than some of the others, and it has a fair amount of accuracy spread. If you are not a close range person, this gun is terrible for you - even with accuracy perks. Interestingly, this gun has a aim assist mag option, AND an aim assist sight option - this leads me to believe you can use it as a hipfire gun - combine that with the gunner overclock "increase your own aim assist" and i believe you can hipfire it overclocked with some pretty decent results.

At this stage the game has alot of info lacking - you cant always tell if the setup you have is working that well or not - and you cant tell why it isnt working. We need more info to see if the setup isnt working due to lag or because it just doesnt work.

[MeToLee]

for rifles you cant go wrong with Pulse Rifle. it delivers decent damage in all ranges. pump shotgun is the best shotgun imo. for heavies Smart Gun was way to go but Minigun is now a decent competition after the buffs. pistols I go with kramer. I dont use smg's aside from when I'm leveling them so I cant comment on them.

[Sir Wagglepuss III]

Simply put for Intense difficulty and below, your weapon of choice really doesn't matter. You can get away with pretty much everything.

Extreme+ is where weapon meta starts to actually matter. On the same token, if you aren't hitting weakpoints, you'll usually be doing piss for damage on Extreme+ thanks to the ridiculously high health increases on enemies on these difficulties. For reference, here is Runner health on Standard+:

Standard - 500
Intense - 800
Extreme - 2000
Insane - 2700

As you can see, it's headshots or your ass.

Rifles:

Gruppa - Using the Compact Flash Hider (due to a bug with it dramatically increasing damage on hit when it shouldn't), this has the highest alpha-strike damage out of the rifles. If you want to hit hard and quickly, this is your jam. Reload time makes it a mid-long range weapon and poor for close engagements for anything more than a handful of greys, or 1-2 blue targets.
Kramer - Pretty much your best all rounder on Insane when you aren't sure what to bring.
Twilight - Solid performance semi automatic if you don't have your hands on the Gruppa yet. Also a solid option vs Synthetics if you don't have access to the Flechette Rifle either. Semi automatic nature of the weapon helps with ammo conservation on Extreme+, which is a legitimate concern.
Flechette Rifle - Excellent option for Synthetic hunting, reasonable performance vs Xeno greys/blues at long range, but there's much better rifles to take for Xeno hunting.
Pulse Rifle - The fallback when you've not unlocked anything. It *will* do work if you're a head hunter, but the low base damage will sting on Extreme+. 7 Headshots to drop an Extreme Runner, maybe 6 if you squeeze out every drop of Weakpoint through attachments and perks.

Note: Other automatic Rifles have severe problems in damage or accuracy problems, and the Sniper Rifles besides the Flechette Rifle are all too slow in either fire rate or reload speed to be relevant at Extreme+. The Pulse Burst Rifle is okay and somewhat useable, but should really be replaced by one of the above weapons that I've described at the first opportunity, such as the Twilight or Gruppa.

CQW:

M37A3 - The first pump action shotgun you get is in my humble opinion, the best gun in the game you can get your hands on. Smack a target with all 13 pellets in the head and you blast for just over 4k damage. A full body shot without any weakpoint hits does a tasty 2.4k+, oneshotting Extreme Runners with a raw body shot and doing the same for Insane Runners with just 3 of the pellets clipping the head. If you have a CQW slot on Extreme+, this should be in your hands for most of the match. Stay on top of your reload game, or bring classes/perks that can mitigate it.
Medved - I am not personally sold on the Medved, but many are. This thing has consistent punch at a decent pace, but you'll find yourself wanting when crowds turn up, especially when you get those 4 packs of Insane Bursters. If you aren't using the M37A3, odds are you're using this.

Note: The SMG's, especially the Flechette SMG, can achieve disgusting levels of DPS. The problem is that they utterly piss away ammo, even with a Recon supplying them. On paper they do work, in reality you're left gasping for air after your first fight. Also, both the Tac Shotgun and Auto Shotgun can do impressive burst damage, but they both have no staying power over time through their ammo, and spend too long on single targets when engaging crowds. Technically they are great vs Elites for their burst damage, but your ability to handle Runners/Bursters/Prowlers goes down the toilet.

Pistols:

Type 95 - Even without the Compact Flash Hider this is your solid all-rounder pistol. with the CFH, the Type 95 will happily wreck the face of most hostiles you encounter at range that aren't an Elite, or will do an excellent job of softening them up for the shotguns in your team.
Kramer Magnum - Excellent for ruining the days of Synthetics, but the low magazine, fire rate, and recoil makes it a poor choice on a dedicated Xeno mission. If you're hunting Synths, the Kramer will do work, otherwise bring the Type 95.

Note: The M10 pistol is an absolute hose of DPS, but most of that DPS will decorate the wall unless you are point blank to the target. Even when point blank, there will be a lot of overkill and waste, and your ammo supply will evaporate. Another weapon that is excellent on paper but no good in practice.

Heavies:

Minigun - If there is a Recon on your team, the Minigun can do work since the Recon ammo drop gives a full magazine (120 ammo) per packet. Invest into as much weakpoint damage, fire rate, and reload speed as possible, and prioritise cleaning Runners/Bursters/Prowlers. Don't even bother shooting at Spitters/Elites unless in a pinch, that's what your Rifle slot will be for, or ideally, your teammates.
Smartgun - The Smartgun falls off hard on Extreme+, struggling to deal respectable damage to even Bursters and Prowlers, generally being a waste of ammo on anything but Runners. It will shred Runners *very* well, but that's gonna be the bulk of the weapon's work. I'd only advise bringing the Smartgun (and with a Recon) on Extreme+ if you really, really cannot control the Minigun, or don't have it.
RPG - This is the one shot RPG, not the 3 round rocket launcher. You *can* bring this to Extreme+ and it will make an ever loving mess of Runner groups, and soften Burster/Prowler groups pretty nicely too but be warned. A single misfire and odds are your entire team are dead from FF. Requires a cool head, steady hands, and iron trigger discipline, but you can do some serious work if you've got the grit and trust of your team. Do note that on Insane specifically, you'll need to proc a damage buff such as Clear The Room to bump up the damage to one-tap Runner crowds.

Note: The other explosive weapons deal too little damage or are patently uncontrollable (looking at you timed grenade launcher) to be worthwhile in Extreme+. Whilst you technically could bring the Impact Grenade Launcher, ammo concerns will be a never-ending thorn in your side after every engagement, even with a Recon. At these difficulties, go big or go home with the RPG. Forget the Flamethrower exists, the DPS just doesn't keep up at Extreme+.

[Riftwind]

How did you find the health numbers for the runners? Can you get a list of all the enemy hp values and post them? This would be incredibly helpful.

[Sir Wagglepuss III]

Manual testing ingame. Turn on damage numbers, get weapons with consistent damage output, start shooting targets. If you want a list of all enemy hp values, feel free to do the leg work and test it across the difficulties.

[Phazon Xenomorph]

So far this thread has been very helpful! Thanks all! In my limited play to this point, i found the heavy flamethrower to be less powerful than I thought it would be. Whether I'm hosing the main small hordes of Xenos or just tapping to light a bigger foe on fire before switching, it feels very weak to me? I mean yeah it's flashy and gives me that "Aliens" feel but it feels like the main swarm Xenos just get too close regardless.

I haven't unlocked some of the other weapons yet as I heard they are behind Intense or harder hidden cache's. But I dunno how far I'll get into Intense given my friend only plays at late late night time and we get stuck with an NPC synth as a teammate.

[Tsorig]

Originally posted by Riftwind:

How did you find the health numbers for the runners? Can you get a list of all the enemy hp values and post them? This would be incredibly helpful.

If I remember right. Spitters, prowlers and synthetic snipers have something like 20k healt and Drones 100k in insane mode. Warriors and praetorians have much more :D

[Sir Wagglepuss III]

Originally posted by Phazon Xenomorph:

So far this thread has been very helpful! Thanks all! In my limited play to this point, i found the heavy flamethrower to be less powerful than I thought it would be. Whether I'm hosing the main small hordes of Xenos or just tapping to light a bigger foe on fire before switching, it feels very weak to me? I mean yeah it's flashy and gives me that "Aliens" feel but it feels like the main swarm Xenos just get too close regardless.

I haven't unlocked some of the other weapons yet as I heard they are behind Intense or harder hidden cache's. But I dunno how far I'll get into Intense given my friend only plays at late late night time and we get stuck with an NPC synth as a teammate.

The Flamethrowers are both strong weapons vs greys and blues on Intense and lower difficulties. After that they just don't have the DPS to keep up and offset the large visual obstruction that is a gout of flame. You also have to be VERY conscious of friendly fire on Intense with the Flamethrowers, as they seem to deal an incredible amount of FF even on Intense. A quick spritz of fire on a teammate on Intense will see 800+ hp evaporate. Mistakes are lethal.

You can unlock many of the weapons on Standard, just make sure you always find and pick up the hidden cache in every mission you do. Their position is random, but each potential position they "could" be in, is a fixed one. They also make a rather loud humming sound that you can tune in on from a surprising distance once you recognise the sound.

For what it's worth, you can solo Intense with many of the classes, but that's where the ability to solo ends. For Extreme+ a team is a requirement, the bots are pure deadweight. You and your buddy should be enough for Intense as you level up and learn the game, though I'd recommend finding a third from the community as the bots are... Tiresome.

[Phazon Xenomorph]

Originally posted by Sir Wagglepuss III:

Originally posted by Phazon Xenomorph:

So far this thread has been very helpful! Thanks all! In my limited play to this point, i found the heavy flamethrower to be less powerful than I thought it would be. Whether I'm hosing the main small hordes of Xenos or just tapping to light a bigger foe on fire before switching, it feels very weak to me? I mean yeah it's flashy and gives me that "Aliens" feel but it feels like the main swarm Xenos just get too close regardless.

I haven't unlocked some of the other weapons yet as I heard they are behind Intense or harder hidden cache's. But I dunno how far I'll get into Intense given my friend only plays at late late night time and we get stuck with an NPC synth as a teammate.

The Flamethrowers are both strong weapons vs greys and blues on Intense and lower difficulties. After that they just don't have the DPS to keep up and offset the large visual obstruction that is a gout of flame. You also have to be VERY conscious of friendly fire on Intense with the Flamethrowers, as they seem to deal an incredible amount of FF even on Intense. A quick spritz of fire on a teammate on Intense will see 800+ hp evaporate. Mistakes are lethal.

You can unlock many of the weapons on Standard, just make sure you always find and pick up the hidden cache in every mission you do. Their position is random, but each potential position they "could" be in, is a fixed one. They also make a rather loud humming sound that you can tune in on from a surprising distance once you recognise the sound.

For what it's worth, you can solo Intense with many of the classes, but that's where the ability to solo ends. For Extreme+ a team is a requirement, the bots are pure deadweight. You and your buddy should be enough for Intense as you level up and learn the game, though I'd recommend finding a third from the community as the bots are... Tiresome.

Yeah definitely gonna have to find a third at some point. The lack of communication in-game is a bit disheartening too, no text or voice comms so even the few times we've had a random queue in by chance, we couldn't message him to give him a discord link or anything to get on voice chat

[Riftwind]

I found dmg numbers inconsistant as it doesnt show the damage your doing directly, rather the damage the gun is outputing with some perks active.
Still interested in the numbers though XD

[Tsorig]

Originally posted by Phazon Xenomorph:

Originally posted by Sir Wagglepuss III:

The Flamethrowers are both strong weapons vs greys and blues on Intense and lower difficulties. After that they just don't have the DPS to keep up and offset the large visual obstruction that is a gout of flame. You also have to be VERY conscious of friendly fire on Intense with the Flamethrowers, as they seem to deal an incredible amount of FF even on Intense. A quick spritz of fire on a teammate on Intense will see 800+ hp evaporate. Mistakes are lethal.

You can unlock many of the weapons on Standard, just make sure you always find and pick up the hidden cache in every mission you do. Their position is random, but each potential position they "could" be in, is a fixed one. They also make a rather loud humming sound that you can tune in on from a surprising distance once you recognise the sound.

For what it's worth, you can solo Intense with many of the classes, but that's where the ability to solo ends. For Extreme+ a team is a requirement, the bots are pure deadweight. You and your buddy should be enough for Intense as you level up and learn the game, though I'd recommend finding a third from the community as the bots are... Tiresome.

Yeah definitely gonna have to find a third at some point. The lack of communication in-game is a bit disheartening too, no text or voice comms so even the few times we've had a random queue in by chance, we couldn't message him to give him a discord link or anything to get on voice chat

You canb always add him to friendlist from recently played list and after that message him and create group chat/voice chat channel in steam. The in game voice comm is quite small con after all.