Will PvP come back? Why was it taken out?

[CosmicDan]

I heard PvP was a thing in this game, and the shop even has a "Battleground Support package". Why was it removed? Were there too many hackers/cheaters?

Or did it have issues with balancing, e.g. too many whales being lumped in with F2P players?

I played Diablo: Immortal before this and PvP is the thing that kept me interested for a long time. Despite not being a whale and occassionally getting unfair matches (e.g. one whale on each team, and the whales avoid each other but just mow down all other opponents lol), it was honestly pretty balanced and it rewarded you based on your individual performance. I would regularly make the top ranks despite hardly ever winning, because I played as support tank and died much less than others even in the matches where we got owned.

(For those who don't know, some YT'ers have whaled in Diablo Immortal and found that they could never get into a PvP match because they were just too OP for it to be fair haha). So yes, PvP CAN work in a game that mixes Whales and Small Fish in together.

D:I is much simpler though compared to Undecember, there are only a few specific builds so it was easier for the matchmaking to balance teams.

What was the original PvP like? Did you get to use your actual build, and was matchmaking OK? Or was it some garbage "select your preset character" deal? That would be horrible.

[wespe___o=/;;;:*]

It was fun if YOU were the one facerolling a group
But devs removed it around summer because it´s hard to balance esp. with THIS shop around. Some builds are just way too strong and to me it´s no fun if the enemies can´t kill you 1on1

[CosmicDan]

引用自 wespe___o=/:*：

It was fun if YOU were the one facerolling a group :knife2:
But devs removed it around summer because it´s hard to balance esp. with THIS shop around.

Fair enough. Yeah I don't think the cash shop really is the issue (if it is, feel free to explain how - not arguing I just dont see it), D:I's cash shop was worse - but the thing about D:I is that there wasn't so much randomness like gear stats here nor the Rune system. There's such a huuuuuuge variety of builds so balancing is gonna be super hard I guess. I mean the game cant even accurately calculate DPS, we need to use the dummies to make the game guess what our real DPS is.

[wespe___o=/;;;:*]

In a game without seasons (which I like).. P2progress means P2Win ..or Pay2Win_light as it depends heavily on your time investment. I won´t deny that.

So while I like Undecember, it has issues. And several issues are self-made by the business model and aggressiveness they push new players into paying for timesavers. This de-values the game overall. Some things in Shop give you a huge advantage over casuals (and still help against nolifes). It´s not that apparent in Story, but shows after Act10.
Becoming stronger, much faster, while paying less Gold, upgrading faster, etc
If you want, you can just buy materials in Shop, etc etc
SO yes, there is a real advantage. Now for the Pet: some player don´t want/need it. True, but it helps way more than many think. The ultimate strenght of the pet is PoE-Zooming.
I´m sure that´s why they set up the pet and payment model.

Imho, the only real dps index is juiced maps (high-Tier). The other values can be easily inflated on some builds, which results in bad performance despite seemingly solid numbers..

[CosmicDan]

引用自 wespe___o=/:*：

In a game without seasons (which I like).. P2progress means P2Win ..or Pay2Win_light as it depends heavily on your time investment. I won´t deny that.

So while I like Undecember, it has issues. And several issues are self-made by the business model and aggressiveness they push new players into paying for timesavers. This de-values the game overall.

Imho, the only real dps index is juiced maps (high-Tier). The other values can be easily inflated on some builds, which results in bad performance despite seemingly solid numbers..

I se your point. Those who can afford to KEEP paying money to stay in the top 1% of player progression will often dominate the PvP leaderboards, simply because they're further along in the game.

I have no idea how I managed to stay in the top 100 players consistently in my D:I server (Baal, Australia) despite being a F2P player. I think the PvP would scale down players that were too OP maybe?

You make a good point/idea about DPS index. Maybe for PvP, the preliminary or initial "rank" for a player can be based on end-game map performance after a few runs. Like a qualification period for example. PvP leaderboards are always seasonal, though - thats super important. Just the scoreboards are seasonal.

[TorinuxCthulhu]

Games like this should never have PvP. I remember back in the day when Ragnarok Online was a huuuuge thing, PvP and GvG was a fun aspect in the game because despite all the skills being PvE oriented, we had mob cards that helped mitigate damage from Demi-Human mobs by a lot (players were considered Demi-Humans too) and some cards had some sort of damage reflect and that helped a lot in the PvP aspect of the game. This game has nothing like this thus balancing becomes a hell. It has nothing to do with players buying stuff to make their build top notch.

[CosmicDan]

引用自 TorinuxCthulhu：

Games like this should never have PvP. I remember back in the day when Ragnarok Online was a huuuuge thing, PvP and GvG was a fun aspect in the game because despite all the skills being PvE oriented, we had mob cards that helped mitigate damage from Demi-Human mobs by a lot (players were considered Demi-Humans too) and some cards had some sort of damage reflect and that helped a lot in the PvP aspect of the game. This game has nothing like this thus balancing becomes a hell. It has nothing to do with players buying stuff to make their build top notch.

Ragnarok isn't even an ARPG, wdym "games like this"? Well ESO is an MMORPG and it had good PvP, so nevermind that point I guess lol. But like I said D:I had good PvP, just because an ancient MMO can't get balancing right doesn't mean it's impossible.

In D:I, PvP was all about CC and/or working with your team.

[Madcap]

The meaning of character development if there is no arena or other PvP activity ? Well , I pumped up to 100 , got dressed , and then what ? What is the interest of further stay in the game?)) Dead Game.

[CosmicDan]

引用自 Madcap：

The meaning of character development if there is no arena or other PvP activity ? Well , I pumped up to 100 , got dressed , and then what ? What is the interest of further stay in the game?)) Dead Game.

Yeah, PvP is a good thing to do in endgame too, to keep things fun while we wait for more content.

[AD]

Undecember ist p2w, they pay to progress faster ist that much of help, anything you buy in the store you can earn easily.

Hate to say it but if they dont add fairplay pvp, the game will fall FAST

We were told the game has pvp, well where is it. False advertisement imo.

[CosmicDan]

引用自 AD：

Undecember ist p2w, they pay to progress faster ist that much of help, anything you buy in the store you can earn easily.

Hate to say it but if they dont add fairplay pvp, the game will fall FAST

We were told the game has pvp, well where is it. False advertisement imo.

Ikr :( says PvP on Steam page....

[TorinuxCthulhu]

引用自 CosmicDan：

引用自 TorinuxCthulhu：

Games like this should never have PvP. I remember back in the day when Ragnarok Online was a huuuuge thing, PvP and GvG was a fun aspect in the game because despite all the skills being PvE oriented, we had mob cards that helped mitigate damage from Demi-Human mobs by a lot (players were considered Demi-Humans too) and some cards had some sort of damage reflect and that helped a lot in the PvP aspect of the game. This game has nothing like this thus balancing becomes a hell. It has nothing to do with players buying stuff to make their build top notch.

Ragnarok isn't even an ARPG, wdym "games like this"? Well ESO is an MMORPG and it had good PvP, so nevermind that point I guess lol. But like I said D:I had good PvP, just because an ancient MMO can't get balancing right doesn't mean it's impossible.

In D:I, PvP was all about CC and/or working with your team.

Games like this that are made with a PvE heavy gameplay. Where there are no skill balancing. You can't even go Reflect damage because all you need is take one of the zodiac nodes that negates DMG reflected at you. Games where you can buy stuff to speed up the gearing process have a PvP experience for those that don't sink thousands of money. I can list a lot of games that have this issue.

Now, this game has a PvP kind of mode and that is a GvG mode where no actual PvP is involved. AFAIK that modes has to do with some sort of challenges that guilds have to complete but yet again, if you are part of a heavy guild that whale a lot, well...

[Viking]

引用自 CosmicDan：

引用自 AD：

Undecember ist p2w, they pay to progress faster ist that much of help, anything you buy in the store you can earn easily.

Hate to say it but if they dont add fairplay pvp, the game will fall FAST

We were told the game has pvp, well where is it. False advertisement imo.

Ikr :( says PvP on Steam page....

PVP in a game where you can literally "swipe" your way into the BIS gear for whatever build you are running is never, ever, ever going to work as the AH is 100% RL cash based.

[CosmicDan]

引用自 TorinuxCthulhu：

Games where you can buy stuff to speed up the gearing process have a :poop: PvP experience for those that don't sink thousands of money. I can list a lot of games that have this issue.

I have to disagree. Paying to skip grind does not ruin PvP, what ruins PvP is bad matchmaking. Immortal has a lot of cashshop whaling involved, but like people on YT have shown if you pay your way to #1 you literally get zero matches in PvP because the game can't make a fair match.

Regarding your other points though, I do see your point. Skills are too unbalanced in this to make PvP fun, i guess :\ they'd have to make it so skills behave differently in PvP and PvP balancing is hard.

[CosmicDan]

引用自 ApocNizmith：

引用自 CosmicDan：

Ikr :( says PvP on Steam page....

PVP in a game where you can literally "swipe" your way into the BIS gear for whatever build you are running is never, ever, ever going to work as the AH is 100% RL cash based.

An RPG that have any BIS is not a balanced RPG, period. META is the bane of all RPG's, may as well not even be an RPG.

Like I said, D:I is no better in regards to cashshop but the PvP was fine. The game isn't P2W though, because it has good matchmaking. Whales are matched against other whales.

[Viking]

引用自 CosmicDan：

引用自 ApocNizmith：

PVP in a game where you can literally "swipe" your way into the BIS gear for whatever build you are running is never, ever, ever going to work as the AH is 100% RL cash based.

An RPG that have any BIS is not a balanced RPG, period. META is the bane of all RPG's, may as well not even be an RPG.

Like I said, D:I is no better in regards to cashshop. The game isn't P2W though, because it has good matchmaking.

Every build has a BiS gear. In every game. 1 piece of fully optimized piece of gear that makes a build do what that build does.

Look at PoE as a example. CWDT Ward Loop Scion MUST have a 6L Duskdawn and a 26-28% Olroth's Resolve flask with a "reuse at end of flask effect" affix on it to work. Both those items are rare, and ridiculously expensive to either craft or buy. The difference here is rather than having to grind for RNG dropped items or exalted orbs, using recipes to obtain or league experience to mass them. A player could just simply grab their credit card and outright buy those things making them a complete nightmare for anyone in PVP as their build triggers only when taking damage.

I do understand that type of build doesn't exist in Undecember, but say a spell build made with crit axes and a legendary ring that grants them like 111% to crit while dual wielding forcing their DPS in the 350K+ mark would still 1 shot you even at max level even in the best armor you could craft/buy, and all they had to do was search the AH, spend 30 bucks and nuke anyone who didn't spend that money. Eventually the leaderboard would just be a showcase of who has more money than sense or people who spend 16 hours a day+ grinding or botting mats to even try and compete.

Westerners don't like that at all. They want their power fantasy to be just challenging enough to still be engaging, but not so hard they have to develop any form of actual pro level skills to compete, and the second any company sells something in a SP or MP game that isn't just simple cosmetics they cry "P2W". The game already has a bad enough reputation do to it's nickle and dime monetization practices, now imagine if they added a PVP system when the person with the most money always wins...