I dont understand this new point aim system, it feels horrible

[Representative]

on release the point aim was perfect imo, you had no need for a crosshair
now its just some next level bs where my rounds seem to fly upwards?
why create the need for a crosshair in a game thats about telling a story and creating immersion? i dont understand it, it feels impossible to point aim with this new system

not to mention point aiming with an acog? it looks awful and makes it horrible to aim
just an edit here, do something about this please, the acog is horrible to aim with now, it feels useless to even have now when point aiming

the game should not need a crosshair its not cod

[Gonzo850]

Originally posted by Hypo:

I can barely play now. The aim was perfect before, now, all of my shots are so high. I have to aim at the ground to get chest shots at 20 meters.

The new style is wrong. The player character is holding their weapon wrong and low. The round is going high way too soon. The round is supposed to land relatively accurate at close range but land high when aiming at far away targets.

[Gonzo850]

Originally posted by =TAC= Stuermer:

Yeah, that's not really better ... maybe they sould mix old-close with new-far ;)
Guess it's difficult to code.

It could be just that. They probably had no choice but to exaggerate the angles cause it's too hard to get it to work realistically.

[Ragged Old Flag]

Originally posted by Gonzo850:

Originally posted by =TAC= Stuermer:

Yeah, that's not really better ... maybe they sould mix old-close with new-far ;)
Guess it's difficult to code.

It could be just that. They probably had no choice but to exaggerate the angles cause it's too hard to get it to work realistically.

I agree that’s probably one of the hardest things to simulate is just “general accuracy” when point shooting because as you know it’s just a high probability of a fairly accurate hit but it’s always going to vary. Seems most gamers tend to call it inaccurate bullet spread instead of interpreting it as slightly different aim points with every snap shooting scenario

[Hypo]

Bullets only miss high, due to poor trigger and barrel control. The video game should factor this out and we should all assume the characters are shooting with excellent form, therefore there should be an emphasis of bullet drop, not bullet elevation.

I can't see any argument for a bullet missing high from a 100m shot if the shooter has a solid shooting position, with good breathing and trigger pull. You're missing left, right or down, but not up.

[Ragged Old Flag]

Originally posted by Hypo:

Bullets only miss high, due to poor trigger and barrel control. The video game should factor this out and we should all assume the characters are shooting with excellent form, therefore there should be an emphasis of bullet drop, not bullet elevation.

I can't see any argument for a bullet missing high from a 100m shot if the shooter has a solid shooting position, with good breathing and trigger pull. You're missing left, right or down, but not up.

We are discussing point/snap shooting that is realistically only accurate and feasible within around 15m give or take. Snap shooting doesn’t take into account marksmanship fundamentals such as sight picture, breath control, trigger discipline. Snap shooting exist because you don’t have the opportunity for the fundamentals at close in hasty engagements. What you’re referencing is aimed fire using the fundamentals, that’s not what this conversation is remotely about or has been about.

[Gonzo850]

Originally posted by Hypo:

Bullets only miss high, due to poor trigger and barrel control. The video game should factor this out and we should all assume the characters are shooting with excellent form, therefore there should be an emphasis of bullet drop, not bullet elevation.

I can't see any argument for a bullet missing high from a 100m shot if the shooter has a solid shooting position, with good breathing and trigger pull. You're missing left, right or down, but not up.

The reason why the bullet goes up is because the rifle is being held at a slight angle. You are using your tip of acog and front sight to angle the weapon and overcome sight over bore at close range. It helps you aim faster as well. At close range your aim and shot will match up pretty close but at longer range the angle difference is bigger.

[macdaddymario]

Yeah... The new aiming is not it. The old aiming had accuracy issues at range being that it was way too accurate. But this new system isn't the one.

Zero reason to not have 3 levels of accuracy. It's as simple as having 3 variations of aiming. In this case hip, sight over bore/point aim/whatever you want to call it and lastly ADS. Be it irons or an optic.

Simply call them calculatePreciseAimAccuracy, calculateAverageAimAccuracy, and calculateRoughAimAccuracy to simulate aiming code for ADS/Optic, sight over bore/point aim, and hip aiming types, respectively.

Then, have a calculateAccuracyModifier function that takes the aim type as an argument and returns the corresponding accuracy modifier based on the aiming code output for that type.

Now you have the ability to give ♥♥♥♥ accuracy firing from the hip, the ability to increase the accuracy by 15% in sight over bore/point aim, so at range it hits ♥♥♥♥ all and up close it does what it was intended to do, and then ADS you increase by a further 70%. No reason this couldn't have been done.

The argument of using the beam of the flashlight to help with the point aim for people that don't want a crosshair cluttering their screen in what is intended to be a sim, is akin to suggesting someone delete their System 32 folder to fix their audio bug.

[Gonzo850]

Originally posted by macdaddymario:

Yeah... The new aiming is not it. The old aiming had accuracy issues at range being that it was way too accurate. But this new system isn't the one.

Zero reason to not have 3 levels of accuracy. It's as simple as having 3 variations of aiming. In this case hip, sight over bore/point aim/whatever you want to call it and lastly ADS. Be it irons or an optic.

Simply call them calculatePreciseAimAccuracy, calculateAverageAimAccuracy, and calculateRoughAimAccuracy to simulate aiming code for ADS/Optic, sight over bore/point aim, and hip aiming types, respectively.

 Then, have a calculateAccuracyModifier function that takes the aim type as an argument and returns the corresponding accuracy modifier based on the aiming code output for that type.

Now you have the ability to give ♥♥♥♥ accuracy firing from the hip, the ability to increase the accuracy by 15% in sight over bore/point aim, so at range it hits ♥♥♥♥ all and up close it does what it was intended to do, and then ADS you increase by a further 70%. No reason this couldn't have been done.

The argument of using the beam of the flashlight to help with the point aim for people that don't want a crosshair cluttering their screen in what is intended to be a sim, is akin to suggesting someone delete their System 32 folder to fix their audio bug.

You are a mad scientist sir

It's 'height over bore' not 'sight over bore.' I probably confused you with my previous post. Sometimes I confuse it with 'sight height' (which means the same thing) and I say 'sight over bore.' Sorry for confusing you.

I'm not a fan of the new aim either. It's the generic google definition of point shooting meant for any rifle or pistol. Marine Corps training was more in depth. At least my training was. As Marines we got really trained up with very specific gear. And with these weapons that we got issued we got taught that we can use the front sight and acog to aim at really close range. The game had that feature correct the first time.

Height over bore is not the name of that aim. What I was referring to there is the effect that happens when you aim at a target at close range with this gear. Your acog reticle may be aiming at the face of a target at close range but the round will hit the chest or lower neck. Because your scope is above your barrel and you are shooting at close range.

If you use your front sight and acog tip to angle the rifle just right, you can overcome the height over bore effect. But it only works at close range. After a certain range the rounds will start to overshoot the target and you need to use the acog properly again.

The overall accuracy issue is that the rounds need to travel up when shooting this way. The further the target the higher the round should land. The old aim had perfectly straight shots and that was wrong. But the new aim is also wrong for over correcting it. The rounds shoot up way too quick. That's not how I was trained. At close range the round should land relatively close to the alignment of front sight and scope tip. At close range it should work just like the old aim worked. It just needed to overshoot its targets after a certain range.

[macdaddymario]

Originally posted by Gonzo850:

*snip*

You threw me off with your naming for sure, but while this is all well and good, doesn't really affect anything I said. I even gave the 4 bits of code needed to be added to fix the issue of accuracy, while retaining the old system. Call them whatever you want, but in the code it would all read as calculatePreciseAimAccuracy, calculateAverageAimAccuracy, and calculateRoughAimAccuracy. Then using the AccuracyModifer option to relay which accuracy % the player should be receiving based on which calculation is being called, based on hip/point/ads. From that point, it's a matter of telling the code which direction the bullets should be going on the X,Y and Z axis, and for the AverageAimAccuracy (point), adding a specific deviation for favoring extreme Z axis results at range.

[Ready Reaper]

Originally posted by insomniac:

Originally posted by Pimplayer213:

Ah yes the discord poll, which member's of this community have told you they did not participate in. The fact we are here like 8 weeks after the update with people still complaining shows something, doesn't it? maybe?

if you turn on the crosshair you can hit your shots regardless of the range so the argument that they wanted to make shooting long range less accurate is bs when i can hit shots crossmap with the crosshair just like the old way, using arma 3 as an example give gamers multiple different ways to aim to their preference and not split the community like this.

Hipfire in this game is more accurate than hipfire in call of duty. People are running around hipshooting everything now. It made more sense when we aimed properly. Just bring back the old correct aim and make in inaccurate when shooting far so we need to use the scope.

[Drusus]

Originally posted by insomniac:

Originally posted by Pimplayer213:

Ah yes the discord poll, which member's of this community have told you they did not participate in. The fact we are here like 8 weeks after the update with people still complaining shows something, doesn't it? maybe?

if you turn on the crosshair you can hit your shots regardless of the range so the argument that they wanted to make shooting long range less accurate is bs when i can hit shots crossmap with the crosshair just like the old way, using arma 3 as an example give gamers multiple different ways to aim to their preference and not split the community like this.

100%
Arma 2 had a cqc aim mode. This is how it should look.

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fojhrdaf2m5811.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D7127c37a40f192a3464174ffcc3069c2d79f5682

[Gonzo850]

Arma. Janky games but such good tactical sandboxes.

[Drusus]

Originally posted by macdaddymario:

Originally posted by Gonzo850:

*snip*

You threw me off with your naming for sure, but while this is all well and good, doesn't really affect anything I said. I even gave the 4 bits of code needed to be added to fix the issue of accuracy, while retaining the old system. Call them whatever you want, but in the code it would all read as calculatePreciseAimAccuracy, calculateAverageAimAccuracy, and calculateRoughAimAccuracy. Then using the AccuracyModifer option to relay which accuracy % the player should be receiving based on which calculation is being called, based on hip/point/ads. From that point, it's a matter of telling the code which direction the bullets should be going on the X,Y and Z axis, and for the AverageAimAccuracy (point), adding a specific deviation for favoring extreme Z axis results at range.

Arma already did this right already. It is possible.

[Drusus]

Originally posted by Ready Reaper:

Originally posted by insomniac:

if you turn on the crosshair you can hit your shots regardless of the range so the argument that they wanted to make shooting long range less accurate is bs when i can hit shots crossmap with the crosshair just like the old way, using arma 3 as an example give gamers multiple different ways to aim to their preference and not split the community like this.

Hipfire in this game is more accurate than hipfire in call of duty. People are running around hipshooting everything now. It made more sense when we aimed properly. Just bring back the old correct aim and make in inaccurate when shooting far so we need to use the scope.

100%

[Drusus]

Originally posted by macdaddymario:

Originally posted by Gonzo850:

*snip*

You threw me off with your naming for sure, but while this is all well and good, doesn't really affect anything I said. I even gave the 4 bits of code needed to be added to fix the issue of accuracy, while retaining the old system. Call them whatever you want, but in the code it would all read as calculatePreciseAimAccuracy, calculateAverageAimAccuracy, and calculateRoughAimAccuracy. Then using the AccuracyModifer option to relay which accuracy % the player should be receiving based on which calculation is being called, based on hip/point/ads. From that point, it's a matter of telling the code which direction the bullets should be going on the X,Y and Z axis, and for the AverageAimAccuracy (point), adding a specific deviation for favoring extreme Z axis results at range.

I don't think the devs want to do the work. They are gonna give us the runaround until launch day and act like they never got feedback from real marines on this. The arcade aim is here to stay.