two things I find odd about the building system

[doombybbr]

there are two things I find odd about the building system
1:that after you have collected the materials you have to wait for the build to finish, this isn't a mobile game, it doesn't make sense to have this as a mechanic

2:that blacksmith/enchant/alchemy are in the skill tree linked to skill points, players are just going to respec to use these, make them built and upgraded the same way as everything else.

[Markus]

Originally posted by doombybbr:

there are two things I find odd about the building system
1:that after you have collected the materials you have to wait for the build to finish, this isn't a mobile game, it doesn't make sense to have this as a mechanic

2:that blacksmith/enchant/alchemy are in the skill tree linked to skill points, players are just going to respec to use these, make them built and upgraded the same way as everything else.

1: I think it makes sense that construction takes time. From a game design perspective it is a measure to control pacing. I don't want players to just brute force their outpost.

2: True thats not ideal. But no idea how it could be fixed. I guess it is fine to give players some exploits to play around with unless they are game breaking.

[doombybbr]

1:Material costs are enough to adjust pacing and prevent brute forcing. Level requirement or quest requirements could also help for this. You could also have some rare materials that only show up in later dungeons for upgrading rooms(or even only in end chests). There are a lot of things you can do to slow base construction that does not create an arbitrary waiting time.

2:There are other ways you can effect the unlocking of certain things, such as with quests which reward skill books. Or quests that when done allow certain buildings to be made/upgraded.

And on an unrelated note; it seems as if the pawnbroker does not have a clear indication of how frequently he is selling items, I am not aware of if this is just him, but he should have a wheel showing how long until next sale.

[Shev]

Originally posted by doombybbr:

1:Material costs are enough to adjust pacing and prevent brute forcing. Level requirement or quest requirements could also help for this. You could also have some rare materials that only show up in later dungeons for upgrading rooms(or even only in end chests). There are a lot of things you can do to slow base construction that does not create an arbitrary waiting time.

Making players wait till 'later dungeons' is worse than 'an arbitrary waiting time'; as it cuts people out of a large portion of the game mechanics until they grind through the game to get the 'later dungeons'.

I find that when I set my rooms to be built, I just go run afew dungeons and by the time I've done that, the rooms are done. Don't sit there and stare at a room being built; go back to running dungeons and doing quests; which will give you more materials to build more rooms/extensions.

2:There are other ways you can effect the unlocking of certain things, such as with quests which reward skill books. Or quests that when done allow certain buildings to be made/upgraded.

Again, more grinding. So we're either going to grind dungeons or quests for -specific rewards-, rewards to build rooms; as opposed to just letting the construction take place while we play the game?

And on an unrelated note; it seems as if the pawnbroker does not have a clear indication of how frequently he is selling items, I am not aware of if this is just him, but he should have a wheel showing how long until next sale.

As someone who is trying to find a pawnbroker in town to hire; I can agree that this would be annoying if the pawnbroker doesn't have a clear indication of them selling things and at how much profit margin. If he's selling stuff at unknown quantities/times/values; then why would I have them sell it without a ledger for me to check? I'd just sell my stuff at town and know it's been sold all in one go.

Dare I say that I hope every NPC that does things for the player; have a 'ledger' that the player can check over to see what the NPC has done for them while they've been off adventuring. If I'm the one hiring all these NPCs, I'd like to come back and look over what they've done and how it's benefited me.

But that plays into me as a person; I like knowing who's doing what if I'm they're employer. Ledgers and logbooks go a LONG way in these kinds of games; they help with immersion and make us feel like our investment was worth it for building the rooms and hiring the NPCs; it's like an extra level of feeling rewarded for our progression.

[Acu]

My complaints:

1. The layout is extremely confusing.
2. There's not enough rooms to build everything in the list.

To add on to number 2: There's no way to remove a room once you've added it on.

[Schploopus]

Originally posted by Markus:

Originally posted by doombybbr:

there are two things I find odd about the building system
1:that after you have collected the materials you have to wait for the build to finish, this isn't a mobile game, it doesn't make sense to have this as a mechanic

2:that blacksmith/enchant/alchemy are in the skill tree linked to skill points, players are just going to respec to use these, make them built and upgraded the same way as everything else.

1: I don't think so. Construction takes time. Its that simple. From a game design perspective it is a measure to control pacing. I don't want players to just brute force their outpost.

2: True thats not ideal. But no idea how it could be fixed. I guess it is fine to give players some exploits to play around with unless they are game breaking.

Please don't budge from 1. I dont like instant gratification, brute forcing, and hastening gameplay. There are plenty of games that have everything at hyperspeed. I find this one paced very well.

[doombybbr]

Originally posted by Schploopus:

Originally posted by Markus:

1: I don't think so. Construction takes time. Its that simple. From a game design perspective it is a measure to control pacing. I don't want players to just brute force their outpost.

2: True thats not ideal. But no idea how it could be fixed. I guess it is fine to give players some exploits to play around with unless they are game breaking.

Please don't budge from 1. I dont like instant gratification, brute forcing, and hastening gameplay. There are plenty of games that have everything at hyperspeed. I find this one paced very well.

It takes ages to farm the materials compared to the building time. The building time is really just an annoyance - it has almost zero effect on the time to brute force.

[Neroxic]

Originally posted by Acu:

My complaints:

1. The layout is extremely confusing.
2. There's not enough rooms to build everything in the list.

To add on to number 2: There's no way to remove a room once you've added it on.

I had similar thoughts about both your points and landed in this:

1. The layout was very confusing at first but after I while I figured out how it worked (1 middle-room at the start, 3 rooms to the left with 2 "slots/plots" each, 3 rooms to the right with 2 "slots/plots" each. this is when fully upgraded). and if you build so you unlock the tunnels you don't need to think about the layout anymore since you can insta-move via tunnels.

2. There is indeed not enough "slots/plots" to build everything since The Quaters gives space for 3 crewmembers per room, so you need all 3 of them to be able to have every crewmember. But since there is only a total of 12 "slots/plots" (NOT including the middle-room as that is the Laboratory) and a total of 14 facilities needed, it is not possible to build/get everything.

3. As of my understanding it is not possible to remove, switch around or exchange facilities once they are built.

If the idea of the developer is to add meaning to the choice of facilities, then the "critique" from point 2 and 3 here can be ignored. I think however that IF so, then it should be mentioned to the player at the very start of the basebuilding so that you don't invest hours into a run and realize later that you built something you don't want anymore.

If however this was not the main idea, one way to work around it is to simply add 1 more "slot/plot" at the very end of each corridor so that it is 3 "slots/plots" in the very last room (there is an "empty wall" in between the two slots in that room for this). That would give you a total of 14 "slots/plots" and thus able to build everything and recruit every crewmember.

If the developer want to keep a sort of "choice what to build/not to build", a middleground could be to enable the player to deconstruct a facility (for a prize in gold). BUT the materials used to build the facility is lost and will not be regained if deconstucted. If that is to harsh, let it be regained at a x% rate. This would make the choice of what to build matter, but still give the player flexibility when it comes to the basebuilding in the later parts of the game.

I have no idea how hard or easy something like these ideas would be to implement, but these are just my thoughts and what I would do if it was up to me.

Does anyone have any other ideas or are you happy with the number of "slots/plots" and that you will have to pick what to build and not to build?

And to the developer, Marcus. I absolutely love this update! Has played Raidborn since it launched on Steam and you are doing an amazing job! Keep it up good sir! =D

[Winslow]

Originally posted by Markus:

Originally posted by doombybbr:

there are two things I find odd about the building system
1:that after you have collected the materials you have to wait for the build to finish, this isn't a mobile game, it doesn't make sense to have this as a mechanic

2:that blacksmith/enchant/alchemy are in the skill tree linked to skill points, players are just going to respec to use these, make them built and upgraded the same way as everything else.

1: I don't think so. Construction takes time. Its that simple. From a game design perspective it is a measure to control pacing. I don't want players to just brute force their outpost.

2: True thats not ideal. But no idea how it could be fixed. I guess it is fine to give players some exploits to play around with unless they are game breaking.

Just link construction time to a dungeon run instead of a timer like how the shop refresh mechanic works

[Shev]

Oooph; I did not know there was a limit to what we could build. Now I'm second guessing two of my choices. I don't think I needed the bedroom or the pawnbroker. =\

[Markus]

Originally posted by Winslow:

Originally posted by Markus:

1: I don't think so. Construction takes time. Its that simple. From a game design perspective it is a measure to control pacing. I don't want players to just brute force their outpost.

2: True thats not ideal. But no idea how it could be fixed. I guess it is fine to give players some exploits to play around with unless they are game breaking.

Just link construction time to a dungeon run instead of a timer like how the shop refresh mechanic works

The construction time is 6 minutes, which is roughly how long you need for a normal dungeon.

The shop restock is a timer as well by the way. I think it is 10 minutes.

[Markus]

Originally posted by Acu:

My complaints:

1. The layout is extremely confusing.
2. There's not enough rooms to build everything in the list.

To add on to number 2: There's no way to remove a room once you've added it on.

As @Shev has suggested, if you find the layout confusing just get the builder guild and use the tunnels.

[Eleongo]

Originally posted by Shev:

Oooph; I did not know there was a limit to what we could build. Now I'm second guessing two of my choices. I don't think I needed the bedroom or the pawnbroker. =\

You definitely dun need pawnbroker unless there were exclusive items sold by him (which I do not know of so far), and as for bedroom its basically your wardrobe for collections which is not necessary but nice to have.

For me I dun build trading post and tavern, and I have yet to try tavern but I assume its something like auto dungeon farming with lower efficiency output than your manual dungeon clear.

[Mr Confused]

Originally posted by Markus:

Originally posted by doombybbr:

there are two things I find odd about the building system
1:that after you have collected the materials you have to wait for the build to finish, this isn't a mobile game, it doesn't make sense to have this as a mechanic

2:that blacksmith/enchant/alchemy are in the skill tree linked to skill points, players are just going to respec to use these, make them built and upgraded the same way as everything else.

1: I don't think so. Construction takes time. Its that simple. From a game design perspective it is a measure to control pacing. I don't want players to just brute force their outpost.

2: True thats not ideal. But no idea how it could be fixed. I guess it is fine to give players some exploits to play around with unless they are game breaking.

If construction takes time for the crew facilities back at headquarters, how is it that we can forge items in a instance of a click, forging weapons is time consuming, putting actions in a single player game to have a creation time delay, same with traveling from base to town or dungeon, those actions are not instant either.

I only post this due to the comment, "It's just that simple."

Not trying to disrespect you or this forum but I am not sure basing any actions on a time delay as a welcome feature to most players. I totally understand when turning in a quest the npc saying come back tomorrow, but a nice new feature like you presented may be damaged by the delay for many people.

Good game, enjoyed it very much, when I started playing in past after a patch I would typically binge play right away, but some of the player comments encourage me to wait it out for a bit this time.

[Markus]

Originally posted by Mr Confused:

Originally posted by Markus:

1: I don't think so. Construction takes time. Its that simple. From a game design perspective it is a measure to control pacing. I don't want players to just brute force their outpost.

2: True thats not ideal. But no idea how it could be fixed. I guess it is fine to give players some exploits to play around with unless they are game breaking.

If construction takes time for the crew facilities back at headquarters, how is it that we can forge items in a instance of a click, forging weapons is time consuming, putting actions in a single player game to have a creation time delay, same with traveling from base to town or dungeon, those actions are not instant either.

I only post this due to the comment, "It's just that simple."

Not trying to disrespect you or this forum but I am not sure basing any actions on a time delay as a welcome feature to most players. I totally understand when turning in a quest the npc saying come back tomorrow, but a nice new feature like you presented may be damaged by the delay for many people.

Good game, enjoyed it very much, when I started playing in past after a patch I would typically binge play right away, but some of the player comments encourage me to wait it out for a bit this time.

I was a little stressed when I wrote this, to be honest, so I wasn't as detailed and friendly with my explanation as usual. I get lots of feedback and messages lately.

Your argumentation regarding other aspects of the game makes sense, but there are also timers for merchant restock, quests, crew, and dungeon spawns. So it is not a totally new concept to the game.

The outpost is a new concept I designed from the ground up. The main idea behind the construction time is for the player to go on a dungeon run while waiting and looking forward to something when coming back, and I think this idea is working out.

Crafting is immediate because you as the player do it yourself. But for construction and passive production it takes time, because other people do it for you. At least that is my reasoning behind it.

[Mr Confused]

Thank you for the clarity, the answer you had given seemed a bit curt and out of style for you, I am glad to hear you are listening to feedback from the players, that and the ability to say " I was stressed" is a very rare and appreciated commodity in today's times.