Something seems off to me

[ragen311]

This game is killing it with the steam reviews. I really hate to reference the terribly implemented binary review system because it could be so so so much better.....but when a game hits the overwhelming category and maintains it, it is a pretty safe bet as long as you dig the genre.

I would think that this game would be getting so much more attention than it is. I have never really gotten into the more stealthy tactical rpg's and this looks like the perfect game to give it a go, but the previously mentioned issue is causing me to hesitate. The devs are pretty well known and respected for desperados 3 from my understanding.

When I looked into this game a bit more I was just expecting to see more reddit and youtube type coverage. Even the steam community itself....was surprised to see only a few hundred "discussions" and none of the guides have been reviewed enough to display their 1-5 stars.

Ha! I just realized that steam's review system for community guides is a better more in depth system than they have for their actual games!

So, anyone have any ideas as to the anomaly of Shadow Gambit....the quietest overwhelming game I've seen in a while.

[FDru]

Deserves a high rating, but at the end of the day these games are very solid but don't stand out much. I had no idea what desperados even was until I played it (saw some random suggestion to try desperados 3 in a "good stealth games" thread). The screenshots don't really tell the story of the gameplay at all and that's the first thing people look at, I think.

I'd say niche is an understatement. Even within the stealth genre, games with this perspective aren't common.

[ドキドキ]

I think it's not generating the attention they had with Desperados because it did not manage to improve on it. I've been a big fan of the genre from day one; bought Commandos 1 right when it came out and have played most games in the genre... Really liked Shadow Tactics, and loved Desperados 3 which I consider Peak-Mimimi. I played the demo of Shadow Gambit and it did not click with me at all: Every single character I encountered was obnoxious, and their voice actors annoying. The control scheme was messed up, the UI was multiple steps backwards from Desperados... The enemies look like Castle Crashers, the fantasy scenario could be cool, but because the characters alienated me, I could not get into it. Abilities were more often than not balanced by long animations which made the game feel sluggish. Since you can create your own crew and the maps need to be able to be solved with every single team, every map I played felt generic and they played similar. To say I was disappointed with the demo is a bit of an understatement. Since it came out at the same time as JaggedAlliance and Baldurs Gate there clearly were better choices to buy for me personally. It was similar for a bunch of acquaintances who usually would have bought the game. I will see how the DLCs for Shadow Gambit turn out and might pick it up at a later time.

[EQFL_Sapare]

Escrito originalmente por coru:

sadly our genre is in a niche. we tried to push out of it over the last games, but it just didnt quite work.
so yes, its very frustrating :) i believe the games are excellent, but they just don't generate the traction as they would in other genres. the specific reasons for this can be many and its very hard to find out what exactly causes it.

also our games arent that great for streaming, youtube etc. its much more fun to play them than watch them. so they never really generate this huge following on the social media front and can create traction there.

the reality is: the people who play the games always love them. but for some reason not many people dont even want to give it a try, even though there is a demo etc.
specifically this year of course, there is A LOT going on. many titles, a lot of attention going elsewhere.
so yeah. thats that :0

I doubt dev wants to hear this at this time, but gotta be honest:
I loved Shadow Tactics, I liked Desperados 3 (I grew up playing the original, and I felt 3 was too much of a departure in style for me to "love" it. But I finished it and streamed it. Its good even if not really that Desperados)

I never had a consideration to buy this game, and everyone of my friends who i showed this to had the same response: "It looks like a mobile game." You can call this petty or simpleminded, but the truth is that I can not fathom in which world the decision was made to go more cratoonish, it was a hard miss-read on the audience. I heard from reviews it also is much easier, so this really felt like an attempt to appeal to a broad audience market, make a friendly looking easy entry to the series for new blood.

I don't think that's bad or evil, but its clear that it was a huge mistake. This genre is niche for a reason, but the niche that plays it for the most part loves the die/reload and trial and error approach(look at your own reveal trailer for Desperados 3, that understood it), that simply clashes with feeling like you are playing a kids game.

Not saying it has to be gore heavy, non of the Desperados or even Commandos was that, but they were firmly in the 13+ teen area of visual tone and violence, John Cooper was cool in his scenes (in the first game), it had that tone of wild west pulp down to a T. Heck, even Shadow Tactics understood this way better, it was probably the most gritty game your company made and it(to my knowledge) sold the best. I still quote "stick and stab" in my head.

If this game leaned more into the tone of Pirates of Caribbean and less (idk a good cartoon example, Spongbob?), i think it would have done a lot better.


EDIT: I JUST THOUGHT OF IT, this is Robin Hood: The Legend of Sherwood. The cartoon artstyle, the simplified difficulty, the "build your own party" mindset, semi openworld. All the same ideas, and the same outcome...

[EQFL_Sapare]

Escrito originalmente por SPD3:

Escrito originalmente por Mephos:

for me personally the knockoff-fortnite artstyle and the setting are very unappealing. I think a cyberpunk, spy or guerrilla setting with a serious tone and realistic or appropriately stylized graphics would have led to greater or even great success.

TIL fortnite invited stylized graphics years after multiple games used them.

You can make fun of him, but he isnt wrong, read above post. There is a reason about 30% of people here complain about the artstyle either being a deal breaker, or at least making it harder to get into.

[DHBTVS]

Escrito originalmente por EQFL_Sapare:

Escrito originalmente por SPD3:

TIL fortnite invited stylized graphics years after multiple games used them.

You can make fun of him, but he isnt wrong, read above post. There is a reason about 30% of people here complain about the artstyle either being a deal breaker, or at least making it harder to get into.

because 30% is the amount that aren't worth listening to, and trying to chase the specific 30%'s approval is what ruins studios...

[EQFL_Sapare]

Escrito originalmente por DHBTVS:

Escrito originalmente por EQFL_Sapare:

You can make fun of him, but he isnt wrong, read above post. There is a reason about 30% of people here complain about the artstyle either being a deal breaker, or at least making it harder to get into.

because 30% is the amount that aren't worth listening to, and trying to chase the specific 30%'s approval is what ruins studios...

Yea, game really showed me, right? Self awareness level 0.

[Aegix Drakan]

Escrito originalmente por EQFL_Sapare:

Escrito originalmente por SPD3:

TIL fortnite invited stylized graphics years after multiple games used them.

You can make fun of him, but he isnt wrong, read above post. There is a reason about 30% of people here complain about the artstyle either being a deal breaker, or at least making it harder to get into.

I know art is subjective, but I really don't see why the more heavily stylized look turns people off. I love it in this game, actually.

It fits the more zany cartoon feel of this game's world (plant pirates, shooting mooks out of cannons at other mooks, magic fish to distract people, etc), and it makes everything look clear and distinctive. So I don't get why people find it to be a dealbreaker.

Like, most people agree nowadays that Wind Waker looks better than any of the other Zelda games that strove for a more realistic look, right?

[vroumcesoir]

The release date was trapped between Baldur's Gate 3 and Armored Core VI. Two great games obviously, also led by two studios with a pretty clean reputation. This led to overpraising, with a surprisingly high amount of people showing enthusiasm to two licences that weren't amongst the most popular ones. I'm not blaming anyone, consumer-driven markets always fall for it, and tend to be a bit narrow-minded when this happens. The game was still noticed by the gaming press, with more than 50 review on OpenCritic.

August was a terrible window to release a niche game. Dredge, Dave the Diver and Cassette Beasts all released around may-june, with similar attention on OpenCritic but far more attention on Steam. I don't see how Shadow Gambit would have performed less than these games in this window, especially considering how niche and risky the original take on Pokemon Cassette Beasts was.

[||]

Escrito originalmente por DHBTVS:

Escrito originalmente por EQFL_Sapare:

You can make fun of him, but he isnt wrong, read above post. There is a reason about 30% of people here complain about the artstyle either being a deal breaker, or at least making it harder to get into.

because 30% is the amount that aren't worth listening to, and trying to chase the specific 30%'s approval is what ruins studios...

If you have already small fanbase/customerbase then alienating 30% of them is kind of a big problem.
Then again, we are arguing using made up percentages.

[||]

Escrito originalmente por vroumcesoir:

The release date was trapped between Baldur's Gate 3 and Armored Core VI. Two great games obviously, also led by two studios with a pretty clean reputation. This led to overpraising, with a surprisingly high amount of people showing enthusiasm to two licences that weren't amongst the most popular ones. I'm not blaming anyone, consumer-driven markets always fall for it, and tend to be a bit narrow-minded when this happens. The game was still noticed by the gaming press, with more than 50 review on OpenCritic.

August was a terrible window to release a niche game. Dredge, Dave the Diver and Cassette Beasts all released around may-june, with similar attention on OpenCritic but far more attention on Steam. I don't see how Shadow Gambit would have performed less than these games in this window, especially considering how niche and risky the original take on Pokemon Cassette Beasts was.

It would have performed less because the artstyle/visuals aren't as appealing and neither are stealth games. And no offense to devs, but BG3 and AC6 are better games and not just higher profile.

I honestly liked Shadow Gambit the least out of their games. There's no meaning in pointing fingers and blaming this or that - sometimes you just mess up nor can't you appeal to everyone. ♥♥♥♥ goes wrong and I am impressed they managed to hold out doing games they want this long in the first place.

[Nachtmahr]

It's a niche genre. Desperados and Commandos weren't GTA levels of fame and sold units either. You'll also have a dedicated fanbase because of that. They'll always turn a 7/10 into a 9 or 10/10 since we don't have a lot to choose from. It's always best to check the playtime if you go by reviews. 90 minutes or "product received for free" reviews should be filtered by Steam. I have enjoyed many games a lot more than I otherwise would have because I got them for free.
But Mimimi games are solid, although this last goodbye dlc duo seems to be a quick and overpriced cut content cash grab to have something in the pockets for the in between time until all devs have found new workplaces

[Lady Neravin]

Escrito originalmente por ||:

Escrito originalmente por DHBTVS:

because 30% is the amount that aren't worth listening to, and trying to chase the specific 30%'s approval is what ruins studios...

If you have already small fanbase/customerbase then alienating 30% of them is kind of a big problem.
Then again, we are arguing using made up percentages.

Imho the style of SG is so much better then D3s. and a lot closer to what I liked so much in ST. It also fits the theme very well, so this wouldn't have worked in D3, but here its great!

[Zenner]

I don't understand how they have this many good reviews but didn't sell a lot. It's like in the top of steam charts pretty sure. Something doesn't feel right

[Space is the Place]

This is not exclusive to this game, but to all games.

Check any indie dev that has being making games since 2015 until now, most of their early games have more reviews. Steam quality process is currently a joke and there´s like minimun 50 games being launched per month. You can see this if you check any new release that is not massively covered by the media (no Starfields or Baldur´s Gate 3), even more so for nitche genres, which are being buried to anyone but the hardcore fans precisely because of how much sh1t comes out daily. Look for a videogame saga and see how earlier parts of the series get more reviews, indies from 10 years ago had more reviews, nitche games 10 years ago had more reviews... when the market overflows, it´s harder to pay attention to every corner, and more and more people start to focus only on the things that you can see from a mile.

As for why this game it´s so well reviewed, well, it´s because it´s good. I don´t know why people need to invent some fantasy or conspiracy, the game has good reviews because most of the people that bought it and play it found it a good experience. Period. Ever hear of the term "hidden gem"? That´s what you have here, it´s the exact same thing that happens with "cult classics" in movies, small audience that has a big positive reaction... but off course people need to appear and go "mmmh I have not hear of this thing more than I´ve hear about others with bigger marketing campaigns... suspicious", no, the only thing suspicious is that thinking adults to this day are still unable to realize why some studios run add campaings on TV while other´s can´t.

Also, no, this game is not an good first meal for this genre. This is the dessert. This particular genre is composed of less than 20 games in total, more than half of them are really bad. Of the good ones, most have stayed faithful to the style created by the original (Commandos series), Shadow Gambit it´s the first subversion of the genre. From allowing you to select the characters you want to use in each map, to select how to approach those maps, repeat them with different characters, the powers you use... While still being part of the genre, it completely sets itself appart, and it´s best enjoyed when you have become accostum to the restrictions of the genre previously presented. Shadow Tactics and Desperados 3 are better for a first taste, then Shadow Gambit should come after, in order to truly appreciate what makes it special.