Shadow Gambit: The Cursed Crew

Shadow Gambit: The Cursed Crew

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Folktale Sep 4, 2023 @ 4:19am
3
2
A poor deviation from the age-old formula
I should probably start by saying that I am a huge commandos and RTT fan and I played Shadow Gambit and previous games at hardest difficulty (except commandos).

Having witnessed those games and knowing what MIMIMI can do, Shadow Gambit feels more like a mess of a game. Don't get me wrong, but I just cannot understand a lot of the choices the studios made, I had a chat with one of the developers on their Discord server where they justified their choice of art-style for this game (D3 still looks much better compared tho this). To me, at that time, it was the only issue visible to me. But after playing the game and completing it, it's the least of the concern.

Story: The story feels pretty weak and TBH, never engulfed me in it like previous games did. I just don't understand a lot of the motives for the crew for joining the missions. This game never made me interested in ANY of the characters. The mirror missions never reveal what's the real motive for the crew to now join the missions. Also, there is no blood. Why? Did MiMiMi forgot its player base? What was the point of capturing a new demographic when you have already decided to shut down? If that were the case, wouldn't it be better to deliver something the veterans cherished? This game felt like it was made for kids.

Too many characters. The game has arguably 8 characters! That's 3 extra from ST and D3! This works at a disadvantage, as you unlock some characters towards the very end. For me, Pinkus and the canon lady were the last. And I only played the end mission with Pinkus. No matter my selection, the play-through would only allow for one or two characters to play only 1 or two level. Also, due to limited design of the levels, you played with a maximum fo 3 characters for more than half the game. Why give 8 characters, then?

If I look at D3, there are a total of 16 levels, compared to 10 levels in Shadow Gambit. In all those 16 levels, you get a really good amount of levels for each character to play and show their worth: Cooper (14), Mccoy (9), Hector (11), Kate (10), Isabelle (8). Similar stuff in Shadow Tactics. There is hardly any level that you play twice, whereas in Shadow Gambit, you have to play each island 3-4 times (including mirror missions). In previous games, be it from MiMiMi or Pyro studios, whenever you completed your objective, there was a set route to exit the level. However, Shadow Gambit takes a different approach, you really just have to kill a bunch of enemies and a gate opens to you (or kill the magic guy and everyone near him is an easy kill, WTF Mimimi? Are you secretly mocking us veterans?). This works against their model of level design. When you are making a player play a certain level again and again, you really need to change things in the level, so much that the levels don't feel repetitive. The treasure island I played, I always chose the same landing spot and exit because, duh, that was the closest to the objective. The enemies didn't even change their position much, if any at all. Things get more repetitive when the antagonist uses "unleash" ability and you have to again repeat the same thing every god darn time! The antagonist learn nothing and we just end up repeating the same cycle just for the sake of story element. Even after completing the main game, the game throws you on the same islands to repeat the same thing over and over again.

Coming to the islands, the map variety feels similar, unlike D3 and ST. In previous games, every map felt different. Here, they are vastly similar. And, No rain or storm.

The game gives too many choices, but this is where the problem arises with Shadow Gambit, you really have a choice who to take. And when you have the vine lady, she will always be the first choice. This is bad especially when your main character is pretty weak compared to her. As a main character, her animation is too long for both kills (would have made a lot of sense for 2.5 seconds for Knife kill and 5 seconds for the blink, but no, both takes 5 seconds). Her blink and knife ability combo is only useful when you have two enemies close together. She, for a main character, cannot even body carry standing up. Compared to that, the Vine lady can quickly kill an enemy, hide the body and herself on spot and even send guards away for quite a long period of time. Although the team of Afia and Vine lady works pretty good. But they still feel too unbalanced. In D3, every character shines, apart from the story aspect, they get good enough screen time and the forced use of predefined characters in levels meant you had no choice but to adapt to their style. For all the 14(16) levels in D3, there was no characters that I overused to the extent of the vine lady. And this is on the developers, if you give me such a character, it would be unwise and foolish of me to not use such character. I never used that Cannon lady much, and Toya, and Pinkus. By the time I unlocked Pinkus, there was hardly any level left to play with him.

Deviating from the standard

The game employs some useless stuff from pointless running and touching orbs to doing crew tales, useless mirror missions, unnecessary dialogue windows,

Earlier we saw the characters talking in real time and not through cards like a kid's game. Why not have the characters talk like they did in previous games as it looked way more natural and didn't have much break between each line. What is the point of those shining shards to reveal memories of the past? But then in other levels, you have to eavesdrop on characters to learn something. Why the developers thought they need to make "tutorial" levels for each characters? was it even needed? Why do we need to do crew tales? or mirror missions to learn backstories of some crew when older games did a much better job of explaining this through MAIN MISSION? What is the point of going through doors on the ship and have a loading screen every few seconds? This doesn't add anything to such style of genre or the gameplay. This is not a RPG game. What is this Vigor? Upgrade? If the devs really wanted to have power upgrades, why not use those mirror missions to let the crew re-live a lost memory and in return you get their ability upgraded? That would at least give me something to play those repeating levels for. Anyway, the upgrades makes the game less hard. All this honestly feels more of a clutter.

Shadow gambit feels like a step taken backwards in every direction. Even the difficulty is so easy on the hardest. The dialogues are OMG so meh!

The whole memory captures breaks the flow and immersion for me. This is a type of game where one saves after every kill. And the whole screen and game stopping for every kill? Bad idea.

Sorry, but if "work/life" balance was one of your concerns, why bother to add so many useless stuff in a game? I Would have rather kept things how they were done till D3. No side objectives, no unnecessary jumping around and no extra dialogues.

ST: 10/10
D3: 10/10
SG 7-8/10

I enjoyed the game, but I enjoyed Robin Hood more. That game came out in 2002. Don't get me wrong, I love D3 and ST, but I feel, for the directness and no hand-holding commandos did, they will always be special for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ-7tXMQg10

Sorry for bad formatting and inconsistent writing, I Wanted to add more but it already got too big to read. Thank you.
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Showing 1-15 of 50 comments
Zeel Ara Sep 4, 2023 @ 4:25am 
I like it.

Something changing in a direction that doesn't suit your personal taste doesn't mean anything past that. You aren't obligated to like everything. And everything isn't obligated to conform to your personal taste.

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the game. I do.
Folktale Sep 4, 2023 @ 4:30am 
Originally posted by Ratley:
I like it.

Something changing in a direction that doesn't suit your personal taste doesn't mean anything past that. You aren't obligated to like everything. And everything isn't obligated to conform to your personal taste.

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the game. I do.

Have you played Commandos, or robin hood or CoH?
MaZeW Sep 4, 2023 @ 9:51am 
Originally posted by Folktale:
Story: The story feels pretty weak and TBH, never engulfed me in it like previous games did. I just don't understand a lot of the motives for the crew for joining the missions.
What's there to understand. It is a pirate crew sticking together to get to the lost treasure of their dead captain.

Originally posted by Folktale:
Also, there is no blood. Why?
I can't say I even noticed or cared about that. So that would be a You issue.

Originally posted by Folktale:
Too many characters. The game has arguably 8 characters!
and
Originally posted by Folktale:
(...) whereas in Shadow Gambit, you have to play each island 3-4 times (including mirror missions). (...) When you are making a player play a certain level again and again, you really need to change things in the level (...)
Maybe the answer to these problems would have been to experiment with different groups of characters in the missions. The game even has a nice Random button on the team select screen for that.

Balance
Honestly, it is not just Suleidy (vine lady), most characters are very strong. If anything it is Afia who is below the curve. And the game in general feels a bit too easy due to that.

Originally posted by Folktale:
Earlier we saw the characters talking in real time and not through cards like a kid's game. Why not have the characters talk like they did in previous games as it looked way more natural and didn't have much break between each line.
Matter of opinion, I liked it.

Originally posted by Folktale:
What is the point of those shining shards to reveal memories of the past? But then in other levels, you have to eavesdrop on characters to learn something.
Different mission objectives. Admittedly these memory reading crystals were a bit underused in comparison to listening in. On the other hand, listening tended to be one of two alternative progression options in the missions it appeared in.

Originally posted by Folktale:
Why the developers thought they need to make "tutorial" levels for each characters?
Tutorials are skippable. So, you don't need to do them. For players who want or need them it's good they are there.

Originally posted by Folktale:
Why do we need to do crew tales? or mirror missions to learn backstories of some crew when older games did a much better job of explaining this through MAIN MISSION?
Many characters and player choices brings with it limitations on what the main story can tell. Story can never guarantee a certain character is there to tell their story outside of dedicated sections that make sure they are there. And Mirror missions are main story.

Originally posted by Folktale:
What is the point of going through doors on the ship and have a loading screen every few seconds?
Are you talking about the story segments in the Marleys deeper holds? Simply hiding that they keep repeating the same patterns of map structure. Considering these are one time visits with hours of playtime between this is an extremely minor gripe.

Originally posted by Folktale:
What is this Vigor? Upgrade? (...)Anyway, the upgrades makes the game less hard. All this honestly feels more of a clutter.
I got nothing here. I agree upgrades feel weird. But did you know you can turn them off again?

Originally posted by Folktale:

The whole memory captures breaks the flow and immersion for me. This is a type of game where one saves after every kill. And the whole screen and game stopping for every kill? Bad idea.
Another thing that never bothered me. In fact I found the save and load animations quite charming. And I enjoyed the mechanic's story integration

Originally posted by Folktale:
I Would have rather kept things how they were done till D3. No side objectives, no unnecessary jumping around and no extra dialogues.
Another matter of opinion. They wanted to try a more open game. If developers kept remaking the same games things would be very stale (waves Call Of Duty from the distance)

Originally posted by Folktale:
I love D3 and ST, but I feel, for the directness and no hand-holding commandos did, they will always be special for me.
As someone who was just replaying the first Commandos when Shadow Gambit came out I was shocked on replay how clunky that game was. Let alone that Commandos did not even try to tell a connected story of any kind beyond "it's WW2, you are elite soldiers".


Overall, I liked Shadow Gambit. Yes, it was not the same thing again. And it was a little too easy. But I had (and still have) a lot of fun and I would not put it below its peers.
The only real gripe I have is some badges are a bit too overly specific on what you have to do to get them, while not explaining their goals exact enough to be acquirable without some guide or a lot of trial and error.(Looking at you Deadly Ascent)
gungadin22000 Sep 4, 2023 @ 1:16pm 
I like what the devs did with this game. Instead of another Shadow Tactics, which is honestly just more Desperados dipped in soy sauce, Shadow Gambit deliberately abandons realism for more fantastical abilities and has far more open-ended map design in order for the player to make any kind of team function and be fun to play the game how they like.

SG is indeed a bit too easy, far easier than ST, but that's more of a balancing issue than a core game design problem. I feel that more dangerous enemies with additional abilities would have helped a lot. A sequel would likely have addressed this, but that now seems to not be fortwithcoming.

I applaud the devs for trying out new stuff in a fresh new setting. It is not an unmitigated success in every aspect, but as the final game of this very underrated studio, it is an excellent title that offers comfortably familiar gameplay with enough new ideas to make it stand on its own.

And I didn't even know I wanted LeChuck Tactics before playing this.
Folktale Sep 5, 2023 @ 4:31am 
Originally posted by MaZeW:
Originally posted by Folktale:
Story: The story feels pretty weak and TBH, never engulfed me in it like previous games did. I just don't understand a lot of the motives for the crew for joining the missions.
What's there to understand. It is a pirate crew sticking together to get to the lost treasure of their dead captain.

Originally posted by Folktale:
Also, there is no blood. Why?
I can't say I even noticed or cared about that. So that would be a You issue.

Originally posted by Folktale:
Too many characters. The game has arguably 8 characters!
and
Originally posted by Folktale:
(...) whereas in Shadow Gambit, you have to play each island 3-4 times (including mirror missions). (...) When you are making a player play a certain level again and again, you really need to change things in the level (...)
Maybe the answer to these problems would have been to experiment with different groups of characters in the missions. The game even has a nice Random button on the team select screen for that.

Balance
Honestly, it is not just Suleidy (vine lady), most characters are very strong. If anything it is Afia who is below the curve. And the game in general feels a bit too easy due to that.

Originally posted by Folktale:
Earlier we saw the characters talking in real time and not through cards like a kid's game. Why not have the characters talk like they did in previous games as it looked way more natural and didn't have much break between each line.
Matter of opinion, I liked it.

Originally posted by Folktale:
What is the point of those shining shards to reveal memories of the past? But then in other levels, you have to eavesdrop on characters to learn something.
Different mission objectives. Admittedly these memory reading crystals were a bit underused in comparison to listening in. On the other hand, listening tended to be one of two alternative progression options in the missions it appeared in.

Originally posted by Folktale:
Why the developers thought they need to make "tutorial" levels for each characters?
Tutorials are skippable. So, you don't need to do them. For players who want or need them it's good they are there.

Originally posted by Folktale:
Why do we need to do crew tales? or mirror missions to learn backstories of some crew when older games did a much better job of explaining this through MAIN MISSION?
Many characters and player choices brings with it limitations on what the main story can tell. Story can never guarantee a certain character is there to tell their story outside of dedicated sections that make sure they are there. And Mirror missions are main story.

Originally posted by Folktale:
What is the point of going through doors on the ship and have a loading screen every few seconds?
Are you talking about the story segments in the Marleys deeper holds? Simply hiding that they keep repeating the same patterns of map structure. Considering these are one time visits with hours of playtime between this is an extremely minor gripe.

Originally posted by Folktale:
What is this Vigor? Upgrade? (...)Anyway, the upgrades makes the game less hard. All this honestly feels more of a clutter.
I got nothing here. I agree upgrades feel weird. But did you know you can turn them off again?

Originally posted by Folktale:

The whole memory captures breaks the flow and immersion for me. This is a type of game where one saves after every kill. And the whole screen and game stopping for every kill? Bad idea.
Another thing that never bothered me. In fact I found the save and load animations quite charming. And I enjoyed the mechanic's story integration

Originally posted by Folktale:
I Would have rather kept things how they were done till D3. No side objectives, no unnecessary jumping around and no extra dialogues.
Another matter of opinion. They wanted to try a more open game. If developers kept remaking the same games things would be very stale (waves Call Of Duty from the distance)

Originally posted by Folktale:
I love D3 and ST, but I feel, for the directness and no hand-holding commandos did, they will always be special for me.
As someone who was just replaying the first Commandos when Shadow Gambit came out I was shocked on replay how clunky that game was. Let alone that Commandos did not even try to tell a connected story of any kind beyond "it's WW2, you are elite soldiers".


Overall, I liked Shadow Gambit. Yes, it was not the same thing again. And it was a little too easy. But I had (and still have) a lot of fun and I would not put it below its peers.
The only real gripe I have is some badges are a bit too overly specific on what you have to do to get them, while not explaining their goals exact enough to be acquirable without some guide or a lot of trial and error.(Looking at you Deadly Ascent)
If we look at every story like that then any story can be written by a child and you will make sense of it. Isn't it kid's story? There's hardly any depth to it.

It's weird you couldn't notice that the enemies are missing blood. What is this? A game for kids?

what exactly do you mean by experiment? Start a level with random characters? Then do the missison again with other random characters? or break between the levels and try different characters?

First game where the main characters is the slowest and weakest.

You don't like natural flow of conversations? What's there to like about having a 2 second pause between each dialogue?

Seems like even the developers were not clear what to use: Crystals or eavesdropping.

Yes you can skip them, But why MiMiMi never bothered for tutorials in ST or D3? Why so much hand holding in this game? It's like they are mocking the users. "hey, look at this superpower, it can be used like this, but wait dumb brain, it can also be used like this and this"

Mirror missiosn are main missions? What? How? So main missiosn appear after half the game is done? Dumb way to prove your point. THe mirror missiosn are nothing but an outlook on the past of the crews,

Yup. TO me it's not minor as it happens too much and too often.

You can even choose to ignore them. But upgrades makes sense when you have a really hard game and upgrading makes thigns easier. Looked like half-baked ideas.

I enjoyed the integration in the beginning. But you need to understand the concept of "quick" save. It should take a second or two to save and load.


I Think CoD mainly suffers from too many micro trtansactions and complex menu system with unstructured levels. CoD isn't ruined because they are same game with a guy shooting enemies and becoming a hero, it's simpyl because the studios choose profit over everything else. Look at FIFA, hardly any changes except squad and it comes every years and sells a good amount too. However, I really don't understand the idea behind this "let's try more open game" because game of this genre hardly ever ycomes out. The other game I recall is Parrtisans, and before that, D3 3 years back. Before that? ST. This is not a genre where things will go stale anytime. And now with MiMiMi gone, we probably not going to see anymore RTT games anytime soon. BEsdies, majority of COD want it to go back to its roots.


I don't know how a game controlled by mouse can get clunky as I too played COmmandos 1 2 months back and don't remember when the controls bothered me. Maybe you didn't like the fact that it didn't have shadow mode and did 0 hand holding. Besides, a game like commando don't need a full story. WW2 setting doesn't require such kind of complex story, you are a bunch of elite soldiers and you were given particular tasks. But why AFia felt she needed to join Marley and get tangled between Ignacia and her to earn "treasure"?


It's weird how you say it's on par with D3 and ST. That's like insulting D3 and ST. I am least bothered by badges when the main element of the game is weak. I enjoyed the game too but saying it's great or on par with previous games is honestly like blindly trusting a person so much that you start to ignore their bads. At this point it seems like people here defending jsut because the game comes from MIMIMI and they cannot fathom that they released an inferior product. Had the game relased by another studios, this would not have gotten a 10/10
Stuntkojima Sep 5, 2023 @ 5:15am 
Originally posted by Folktale:
Originally posted by MaZeW:
It's weird how you say it's on par with D3 and ST. That's like insulting D3 and ST. I am least bothered by badges when the main element of the game is weak. I enjoyed the game too but saying it's great or on par with previous games is honestly like blindly trusting a person so much that you start to ignore their bads. At this point it seems like people here defending jsut because the game comes from MIMIMI and they cannot fathom that they released an inferior product. Had the game relased by another studios, this would not have gotten a 10/10

It's ok if you don't like this game but why do you have a problem with other people liking it?
grandma_moses Sep 5, 2023 @ 6:37am 
Absolutely the best stealth tactics game I played to date, I was invested from start to finish and played through it in four days. When I entered the Memory of the Grand Design, I tabbed out to Steam to buy Desperados 3 and download it instantly so that I can play it right now because of how good Shadow Gambit was.

I like the supernatural abilities very much - the cannon and the anchor are clear standouts -, I like the quirky and lighthearted atmosphere compared to the doom&gloom in Shadow Tactics and its addon. I love the training rooms and the individual characteristics of the islands, I like the clear distinction between short 15 minute missions and longer 45 minute ones. I adored the choice to bring in a captain's mirror, essentially offering you the backstory to your characters through playable missions instead of just dialogue.

All in all, a very well done game which hooked me the most a game has managed since Elden Ring came out. A clear improvement over Shadow Tactics for me personally. I put Armored Core aside for this as this was more fun. Would buy again.
Last edited by grandma_moses; Sep 5, 2023 @ 6:41am
Opera Sep 5, 2023 @ 6:34pm 
Is just a different direction, I wouldn't say it's bad at all, quite the opposite really.

I loved Shadow Tactics and Desperados (both 100% but for the speedruns) and loved Shadow Gambit.

The different approach is with the characters indeed, 8 characters that you can pick for each mission implies the story cannot unfold during the mission, not to the depth of the previous games, as they are not tailor-made for the team you have.
But what you get is more possible combinations, more synergies, more ways to engage each map.

What it loses a bit in story, it gets in fun and character design.

I agree that the game wasn't a challenge (did it in Cursed Difficulty), but I'm replaying Shadow Tactics on Hardcore and it's not that hard either - as long as I don't try speedrunning. You just get good at this, and games don't challenge you that hard I suppose.

I loved the different style of gameplay in Shadow Gambit, and I loved the deeper stories in the two others. It's just a taste thing, doesn't mean SG is worse. As said above, OP, it's a 'your tastes' thing rather than a quality issue.

And for the tone and lack of blood, come on. I'm reaching 40 and didn't even notice the lack of blood, what are you on about the 'forgetting about your older audience' haha.
Folktale Sep 6, 2023 @ 12:56am 
Originally posted by Stuntkojima:
Originally posted by Folktale:

It's ok if you don't like this game but why do you have a problem with other people liking it?

Why would I have any problem? I am just trying to understand why the author thinks its on par with previous titles. "your problem" "I liked it" doesn't really open or say much about the understanding on the why part.
Folktale Sep 6, 2023 @ 1:20am 
Originally posted by Opera:
Is just a different direction, I wouldn't say it's bad at all, quite the opposite really.

I loved Shadow Tactics and Desperados (both 100% but for the speedruns) and loved Shadow Gambit.

The different approach is with the characters indeed, 8 characters that you can pick for each mission implies the story cannot unfold during the mission, not to the depth of the previous games, as they are not tailor-made for the team you have.
But what you get is more possible combinations, more synergies, more ways to engage each map.

What it loses a bit in story, it gets in fun and character design.

I agree that the game wasn't a challenge (did it in Cursed Difficulty), but I'm replaying Shadow Tactics on Hardcore and it's not that hard either - as long as I don't try speedrunning. You just get good at this, and games don't challenge you that hard I suppose.

I loved the different style of gameplay in Shadow Gambit, and I loved the deeper stories in the two others. It's just a taste thing, doesn't mean SG is worse. As said above, OP, it's a 'your tastes' thing rather than a quality issue.

And for the tone and lack of blood, come on. I'm reaching 40 and didn't even notice the lack of blood, what are you on about the 'forgetting about your older audience' haha.

But if we look at "your taste" thing, then there is really no point for having criticism or debates over any issue. I have played so many hours in S.T.A.L.K.E.R SoC and it holds a special place in my heart. But if someone comes and says it's a bad game with tons of glitches or bugs, then me denying that and saying it's "your taste" as it has a cult following for a reason then that simply makes me an ignorant.

You unlock isabelle in level 9 and you still play 8 levels with her. She's the last character you unlock. The last 2 characters I unlocked: Pinkus and canon lady, I barely used them. That's the problem with choice. NO matter what last chracter you unlock, you will only get to play 2 levels. In D3 and ST, you only had 5 characters with good story backgrounds, that's why whenever one character was missing, its lack was felt and I really cared for the characters. That's what less characters and good story background means. I play games for its story and gameplay.

Really? That's the first thing I noticed: I killed a dude and not a splatter of blood. That's what playing previous Mimimi and other RTT games did. This game was made for kids and that's a stupid decision IMO when majority of the playerbase is adults. this is what I meant. If your majority of audience is adults, cater to them, not the minority, especially when it's your LAST game.
Opera Sep 6, 2023 @ 3:13am 
I'm all for discussing decisions and evaluating them, but when these decisions lead to interesting gameplay, possibilities, replayability, then if you don't like these decisions, it's your taste and not a fundamental problem. You can not agree with their direction ; doesn't make the game poor.
Again, I loved Shadow Tactics and Desperados 3, but for example one could argue they have no replayability. You finish the story, complete the challenges and you're done. Each mission will always be the same.
In Shadow Gambit, you can mix and match the characters, you can decide to challenge yourself and use only one character for a mission, it's more 'sandboxy'. It lacks a bit in story, indeed. But way more replayability, the gameplay is funnier - so I felt.
fourfourtwo79 Sep 6, 2023 @ 8:50am 
There's flipsides to the direction, such as re-visting the same islands (mandatory), the open strucutre making it more difficult to tell a coherent character/story piece as previous. I can relate to that being a disappointment for some.

But this games bridges the gap between Commandos and Dishonored. Which is pretty fine to me.

Shame that this will be the last one. With the rising prominence of systemic gameplay (see Zelda or Baldur's Gate 3) -- I think one of their next games could have been a commercial hit. In particular if they would have further branched out into coOp or more interactive environments/physics to mess around with (Streamers' delights). Larian did have a bumpy ride throughout their 25 years of mostly battle themselves, including publishers telling them that the games they wanted to make wouldn't sell and the studio even being on the brink of bankrupcty at least once. They've persisted and now they've hit it pretty big time with BG3.
Last edited by fourfourtwo79; Sep 6, 2023 @ 8:54am
sunnytater Sep 6, 2023 @ 9:24am 
This is a huge thread just to say you don't like a game. Just don't play it.
Folktale Sep 6, 2023 @ 12:22pm 
Originally posted by sunnytater:
This is a huge thread just to say you don't like a game. Just don't play it.
And if you cared to read it, you would know that I completed the game and my criticism is based on my observation and unbiased.
Total Noob Sauce Sep 6, 2023 @ 3:14pm 
The game is still very good. With the ability to replay levels with other characters. I'm going through finishing off the medals.
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Date Posted: Sep 4, 2023 @ 4:19am
Posts: 50