One Sphere of Fire per Demon; 3 file saves later

[Rage Fuel]

Hey everyone,

I noticed this was a hot topic on the forum. I have 3 save files going right now in order to check the efficiency of the Sphere of Fire usage.

The general debate is whether you should put them all on one demon, or spread them out, or should you put them on the least demon or the highest demon.

On my first playthrough I spread them out but then when I had an extra one, I put a second one onto my Agriel.

While I was writing my guide I experimented and put 3 on Haagenti and 1 on Dantalion (I wanted to put all onto Haagenti, since it was the highest demon, but that's the way she goes).

I'm currently working on my third save file with one sphere per demon. I am saving spheres of fire for the next demon rather than doubling them up.

Right now I am at Belphegor's 3rd upgrade and producing Gems in the Septendecillion range, Souls in the Quadrillion range, and my Raw mana is in the 10's of millions. I have 3 skulls on my ghouls and 1 skull on Pestilence. I have about 2300 Leviathan.

I'm a little behind my first playthrough now but I think it's a bit more stable.

I've started needing to ladder my Abaddon and Lolmisho since creating Abaddon uses all of my souls, and creating Lolmisho uses all of my Abaddons, and creating Belphegor uses all of my gems.

Tl;DR - I think that putting one sphere of fire on a demon and saving them is the best method. It seems like I'm able to upgrade my bottom 3 much more often than my first save where I had 2 on Agriel.

Also, I put 3 skulls onto the ghouls until I unlocked pestilence, and have put the next two skulls onto pestilence. This seems to be the best method for souls.

Mathematically I am still uncertain if it will pay off to save my current extra sphere for the Azazel demon. I haven't unlocked Azazel on any of my playthroughs, but I think that I made it to my third crystal/Azazel faster than my first playthrough and I feel my demon production is much more stable.

[Killerkonnat]

Автор сообщения: Veresy

So, would this strategy work with Skulls?

Автор сообщения: Killerkonnat

So, the mathematically optimal strategy for fire spheres (and also fire skulls) is:

If the drowners later get a similar upgrade item, the same applies to them. With gears the question is a lot more complicated because you get so few of them and you have to choose between multiple resources to upgrade so I don't know the answer.

Автор сообщения: Veresy

Should we hold onto spheres until we can put them on a unit that would benefit?

Автор сообщения: Killerkonnat

2: If the highest tier unit is almost strong enough to be useful, or you're about to unlock a new unit that is immeadiately useful, you might wait a bit and upgrade that unit, if unlocking the next fire sphere/skull takes much longer (for example lowest tiers of demons, pestilence, santa muerte)

Already addressed the second question too, but I think the more accurate answer is "only if you're close to getting an unit to be useful or if the next fire sphere/skull after getting an useful unit takes a long time". That's ONLY IF these conditions are true. Otherwise follow steps 3 and 4. This applies both to units you can't buy yet and units you can buy but aren't strong enough to be useful.

[.DeaTh]

every unit can atleast get one sphere or skull or w/e
else just save em i guess

[Pelides]

Автор сообщения: .DeaTh

Personally I think stacking them onto the lowest demon might be the best play, because thats what increases the raw material income, speak Gems/Souls/Crystals

Mathematically it doesn't make a difference on which caracter you use the buff. If you double the lowest Minion efficiency, you make twice the money. If you double the Highest Minion efficiency, you will have twice as many Minions off all tiers and therefore twice as many lowest Minions/Moneymakers. So you will also make twice the Money.

But what isnt calculated in that is that there are benchmarks that double the Minion output, Meaning that having twice the number of units is better than making more money per unit.
The third problem that affects the most efficient use is, that the buffs stack additively, while spreading the buffs leads them to being stacked multiplicatively.

My Guess of the Most efficient use of the Buffs is, most number of buffs on the highest tier unit while still trying to spread them as much as possible.

for example with 5 Buffs in Demon Faction I would give:
2xBelphegor, 1xLolmisho, 1xAbaddon, 1xHaagenti, 1xDantalion, 0xAgriel

[UrzaKeFrostgard]

There are two types of stacking in this game:
Additive Stacking:
1 Gear increases the base production of a unit by 100%
Base Production = 100
+1 Gear = +100
Total Production = 200
+1 Gear = +100 (Base Production is 100 not 200 - this is the production after the increase through gears)
Total Production = 300

This is the way a Single Multiplier is increase a single units Production (Gears, Skulls, Fire etc)
And then there is Multiplicative Stacking which is much more powerful.

We have 2 Units:
Unit A produces 100 Gems
Unit B produces 100 Unit A

We add 1 Gear to each of them which would result in:
Unit A produces 200 Gems
Unit B produces 200 Unit A

With the same 2 Gears as in Additive Stacking we are already producing 400 things in total instead of 300. > We already produce 25% more things. And this keeps piling up quite fast:

Lets just say we have 4 Gears:
Additive Stacking: 100 Base x 400% (4 Gears) > Total Production 500
Multiplicative Stacking: 4x100 Base and 100% per Base > Total Production (4x200) 800

Yes, I know we have not even facored in that the higher level units would increase the amount of lower units which would result in even more production of this lower unit for the next lower unit (check out the math at the bottom for it) which will increase the production even further.

tl;dr always stack the same multiplier across your all your units e.g. on demons make sure each demon has at least one Fire Sphere.

In terms of different Multipliers like Gear and Fire Sphere. You can stack them on the same unit as they multiply each other but then again do not stack multiple gears on the same unit unless its a boiler or all your units already have gear on them.

As for the people that want to have a little bit more math involved:
Additive Calculation:
Base Production x (1+(Amount of Multiplier x Multiplier Factor))
e.g. 5 Fire Spheres, 100% increase per Sphere, 100 Base Production
100 x (1+(5*100%))
100 x (1+5)
100 x 6
600

To compare it the the Multiplicative Calculation we have to be fair enough to add another 4 units tho, in order to simulate the production between them. Each units has a base production of 100 and no Spheres:

600 x 100 x 100 x 100 x 100
60.000.000.000

Multiplicative Calculation:
(Base Production of Unit X x (1+(Amount of Multiplier x Multiplier Factor))) x (Base Production of Unit Y x (1+(Amount of Multiplier x Multiplier Factor)))...
e.g. 5 Fire Spheres, 5 Units, 100% increase per Sphere, 100 Base Production each
(100 x (1+(1x100%))) x (100 x (1+(1x100%))) x (100 x (1+(1x100%))) x (100 x (1+(1x100%))) x (100 x (1+(1x100%)))
(100 x (1+1))) x (100 x (1+1))) x (100 x (1+1))) x (100 x (1+1))) x (100 x (1+1)))
(100 x 2) x (100 x 2) x (100 x 2) x (100 x 2) x (100 x 2)
200 x 200 x 200 x 200 x 200
320.000.000.000

Additive Production = 60.000.000.000
Multiplicative Production = 320.000.000.000

Difference = 320/60
= 533%